Would I be an idiot if I? AW4-BA10/5

[Knucklehead97]

So I've been wanting a manual transmission for quite a while now. There are NO AX-15's around me in decent condition for a decent price and honestly right now even a decent price is too much for me due to me paying cash for everything while I remodel my house/replace appliances with new models. I originally was looking for just a 2wd one but recently decided if I'm going to do it then I'm going to go ahead and put a 4wd in even if I don't replace the front axle with a 4wd one immediately (2LO with a locked rear end sounds nice to me). I got to thinking about it and realized that I still have my old MJ at my mother's house with a 4wd BA10/5 in it and a brand new clutch/flywheel. I would only have to purchase about 100$ in parts to install it most likely and it would fufill my urge to drive a stick shift again. The only issue I remember from the tranny was that 5th was starting to roar a bit, but I didn't even replace the gear oil before I decided to park it. I rarely drive my MJ past 55MPH and never really run it hard. Would I be an idiot if I was to swap that transmission into my MJ until I could afford an AX-15 swap?

[Pete M]

does your truck currently work?

[Knucklehead97]

My MJ is fine other than death wobble at 60MPH, and either the flywheel is cracked or I have a low end engine knock (has been happening since I bought it 5 years ago.). The rest is all just minor issues like the dash being demolished and the driver side window regulator went out. The MJ that I'm planning to pull the BA10/5 from would require a lot of work because it has been sitting for 5 or so years and I have been pulling parts off of it to fix my current MJ as needed.

[Knucklehead97]

I also just realized I put this in The Pub instead of MJ tech  that's what I get for typing this up at a red light on my way to work

[Eagle]

My original '88 XJ has a BA 10/5. After an initial warranty problem with tranny noise during the first month I had it, it's been fine. 287,000+ miles. And it has been wheeled, at Paragon on Pennsylvania, Old Florida Road in Massachusetts, and the power line trail in Rhode Island, as well as some Forest Service roads in northern New Mexico.

 

Just don't beat on it.

 

[omega_rugal]

if your BA10/5 has no issues and you have a great urge to drive a stick then yes...

[ghetdjc320]

My BA10 worked flawlessly for years in my YJ. Lots of off-roading during those years also. Oddly enough, when I swapped in the “upgraded” ax15 I had nothing but problems. The 2nd ax15 was fine though. Everyone at the time (different forum) made it seem like the ba10 was on borrowed time but it was actually a decent transmission. I’ve only ever had one though so maybe mine was the exception???

[Knucklehead97]

I think I'm going to try to pull it out of the Jeep next time I'm up at my mom's house and take a look at it. I drove it consistently for a couple years and the BA10 was fine other than the whine in the 5th gear. Either way I will keep the Aw4 handy in case the BA10 went out all of a sudden. I know most of what I need to grab from the manual Jeep to swap it over, but do I need the computer from it as well? Or will my automatic one be fine?

[Eagle]

29 minutes ago, Knucklehead97 said:

I think I'm going to try to pull it out of the Jeep next time I'm up at my mom's house and take a look at it. I drove it consistently for a couple years and the BA10 was fine other than the whine in the 5th gear. EitheMJ Tech: Modification and Repairsr way I will keep the Aw4 handy in case the BA10 went out all of a sudden. I know most of what I need to grab from the manual Jeep to swap it over, but do I need the computer from it as well? Or will my automatic one be fine?

 

Heh, heh. That whine was the warraanty issue with my '88 XJ when I bought it new. It seems to be characteristic of the tranny. The factory had a warranty "fix" for it, though -- stuff a thick felt pad between the tranny and the floor to soak up the noise.

 

That's like their "fix" for the leaky front door vent windows (which were an extra cost option in 1988). Mine leaked from Day One. The factory had a "fix -- take 'em out and replace with the fixed windows. I asked if that would include refunding the money I had paid them for that option. Silly me! Of course not!

[JMO413]

IMHO

I think the Old Peugeot got a bad wrap. It's a light duty transmission in a light duty truck. It's was never meant to handle 31's let alone anything bigger. When you throw a set of 35's at it and beat on it constantly something will always give. Mine works quite well in my truck. Redline MT90 made it shift nicely. Most noticable in the fine Iowa winter.

 

With that being said. I still search Facebook and Craigslist daily for a good donor Cherokee AX-15.

[Dzimm]

If it were me, I'd leave the running and driving truck alone until you can get the parts to do what you really want to it.  You say it'll be a lot of work to get the parts MJ running, but doing a transmission swap twice in your running MJ and once in the parts rig if you decide to fix it down the road is also a lot of work.  

 

Believe it or not, leaving these things sitting for long periods really doesn't mean they need a lot of work.  Worst thing to deal with would be bad gas in the tank but that is just a drain and fill if you're lucky, new tank if not.  Otherwise a good battery and new oil and will be just fine.  Put the parts back you robbed and good to go.  

[Jeffery Starn]

Those trannys have a bad rep but if you’re not rough on it then it will be just fine until you get the money for an ax15, where are you located? I have a Jeep guy near me that sells fully rebuilt ax15s for $950

[Pete M]

don't kid yourselves, they have a bad rap for a reason.  I've had 22 years of hearing of other peoples' woes.  A higher percentage of them fail than the other transmissions you can run.  does that mean any particular one will go in the next month, or even year?  of course not.     all I ever say is to be prepared and drive like a sane person. 

 

mine lost 5th gear (best guess since it was no longer available) and blew a hole out the side of the case while I was just tooling along in freeway traffic.  2wd on 30" tires.  still got me home though!    gear oil is overrated!  (though I did need to stick a finger in my right ear because the whine became deafening).

[89 MJ]

31 minutes ago, Pete M said:

drive like a sane person. 

I’m surprised my Peugeot has loved as long as it has. I beat on it pretty good with my 31s, 4.10s, and love to get 2nd gear rubbed along with clutchless shifts.  It’s gone through 3,000 miles as of tonight of that kind of driving. 

[cruiser54]

You would be a knucklehead.......

[87MJTIM]

My BA10 never left me stranded.  I had approx 270k miles on it when I swapped.

 

It was starting to whine in 1st gear and higher RPMs - starting our or low speed driving.

 

The internal slave cyl was the primary reason I swapped to an AX15 w/ an external slave.

[Minuit]

I suspect that the CC members with long lasting BA-10s are better at driving stick than the typical populace that got the BA-10 its reputation. I suspect they also don't do stupid stuff like burnouts, power shifts, or hard launches, and those who have wheeled with a BA-10 drive with a little more nuance than just "dump clutch, see what happens".

 

You would think that anyone who's owned a manual vehicle for any length of time would have gotten pretty smooth at it, but riding with others I'm constantly surprised at how rough people who should know better are.

 

I bet a BA-10 is perfectly fine for any kind of "normal" driving, setting aside age-related wear and tolerance for abuse. I bet the factor of safety on the AX-15 is quite a bit higher, making it more tolerant of the stupid $#!& that a lot of Jeep owners tend to do - especially back when older XJs were cheap, expendable offroad toys and young kids got them, put huge tires on without changing the gearing to match, and bounced them off rocks.

 

If I had a choice I would not install a BA-10 over an AX-15. I would not spend money on a BA-10 if an AX-15 swap was an option. But if I knew I was going to be careful and not deliberately abuse the transmission and had to have a manual transmission in my truck RIGHT NOW, I don't think I'd lose too much sleep over installing one that is known to be good.

[MancheKid86]

On 8/11/2020 at 6:38 PM, Pete M said:

don't kid yourselves, they have a bad rap for a reason.  I've had 22 years of hearing of other peoples' woes.  A higher percentage of them fail than the other transmissions you can run.  does that mean any particular one will go in the next month, or even year?  of course not.     all I ever say is to be prepared and drive like a sane person. 

 

mine lost 5th gear (best guess since it was no longer available) and blew a hole out the side of the case while I was just tooling along in freeway traffic.  2wd on 30" tires.  still got me home though!    gear oil is overrated!  (though I did need to stick a finger in my right ear because the whine became deafening).

^^^ THIS

only ax-15 i have seen fail not from driver/neglect but from to much HP, was a supercharged v8 cherokee at the drag strip (which was wayyy above the HP rating of the transmission) made a big noise while shifting and it locked into 4th gear.
when i took it apart the 3/4 gear syncronizer hub was detroyed

the other ax-15s have been from people grinding gears and destroying the synchro's

deteriorated fluid (contaminated with sludge, which fills the grooves of synchros and causes them to fail)

not changing fluid causing bearing failure

ive also seen people reseal the input shaft and put way to much rtv on the machined surfaces and block off some oil galleries to in input bearing.
the best was the reverse to 5th clutch drop that sheared 5th gear right off. (i had to replace the main shaft and synchros for that guy)

any used transmission is a gamble, you don't know how the previous owners have treated it,
pull the drain plug and inspect what comes out before you make your purchase (look for bearing material/sychro bits)

from my experience running 10w30 (i have been using 10w30 in various ax-15 for 8 years, i use castrol GTX) has been the best fluid to use.
it literally cleans all the grooves out the synchros giving it a better friction coefficient to allow for a smoother shift.
first oil change after a few 1000K and you won't believe all the sludge that comes out, put castrol GTX in a high milleage (over 400,000km) transmission ran it for 5000 km (it instantly fixed the shifting btw) and drained it, took it apart (converting to external so why not while i had it out) and it was immaculate inside. cleaner than any of the lower milleage running gear oil, it made the synchros look brand new.

 

 

rant over


 

[Wounded_Fighter]

On 8/12/2020 at 9:49 AM, Minuit said:

I suspect that the CC members with long lasting BA-10s are better at driving stick than the typical populace that got the BA-10 its reputation. I suspect they also don't do stupid stuff like burnouts, power shifts, or hard launches, and those who have wheeled with a BA-10 drive with a little more nuance than just "dump clutch, see what happens".

 

 

Ehhhh... I do power shifts, hard launches, clutch dumps occasionally....

I've only burnt the synchro in 4th (a little bit) on mine. She still rode perfect otherwise.

 

(Waiting for test drive after my last vehicle accident to see how she held up to a crash!)

[Pete M]

life is complicated and nothing is certain.   

 

 

[OldManComanche]

THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD WHO CAN TEAR UP A BOWLING BALL WITH THEIR BARE HANDS. If this is you, then I would avoid the BA 10/5.

 

Drain the oil in the BA and look to see if there is a bunch of "sparkles" in the oil (chewed up bearings/gears). If it looks good, then it's your time/money, so do what ever you want to.

   GOOD LUCK

 

   

[derf]

You mention that you want an AX-15 and that you may possibly take out the Peugeot after it's in once you find one.  You just can't find one for sale at a reasonable price right now, correct?

 

The direction I would go would be to wait and do the swap later.  Keep saving up cash, a little at a time, until you have the budget to buy the AX15 you want and do it right.  In the mean time, put the Peugeot up for sale and get as much as you can for it to fund the AX15 budget.  That requires some patience but in the end it'll be worth it.

 

I've done more than one "hey this is a cheaper route but not really what I want" swaps in various projects.  It never ended up being what I wanted and I ended up throwing a bunch of money away trying to make it right or scrapping it entirely and starting over.  Or both.

 

The Peugeot would work and scratch the itch for now.  But you'll keep itching to do the AX15 swap.  And it'll bug you until you get it done.

 

If it was just a "I want a manual, don't care which" itch, the Peugeot would be fine for a stock or near stock build for driving around and not abusing.  But since you say you want the AX15 long term, that's what I'd hold out for.