People on Facebook

[89 MJ]

Ok, on the Facebook there have been people that have been looking for Comanches for sale. Because I am kicking around the idea of selling mine, I comment a picture of mine and give a short description, along with my price ($12,000). (I haven’t made an official post on FB trying to sell it because it still needs to swap the motor, and if someone is interested in buying the truck, I will swap the motor before I sell it). Many people do the laughing reaction about it, and I’m not one to get offended easily (I like guns and think most people in my generation are sissy’s to put it nicely, I’m 16), this though offends me a little. I get it, my price does seem high for a 31 year old Jeep pickup, but the price is on the rise for these trucks and to get one built the way I did would cost more than $12,000. Because of that, I am going to do a cost analysis and then I will put it in my build thread. 

 

Including purchasing the truck and two parts Cherokees I have about $6,000 in parts. 

On top of the $6,000 I have:

$500 in tires

$200 in axles and lift

$100 in sandpaper, buffing compound, black plastic restorer, etc. 

$250 in paint (donated by a local business)

$200 in wheels (I got for free, it cost $200 at the local junkyard for aluminum wheels)

$10,500 for my labor (let’s say it is $15 an hour, which is cheap for a restoration shop, but I’m no pro)(I have about at minimum 100 7 hour days)

$8,500 for my dad’s labor (rounded down)(he has at least 35 7 hour days at $35 an hour, as that is what he charges at his restoration shop)

-$5000 for the labor someone will do on their own

 

A grand total of $21,250. Now $12,000 seems cheap, right?

And I get it, it’s hard to make money on these, but I think my price is fair. 

 

Long story short, people here are a lot nicer, and I thank you for that. 

 

Here is a pic of my truck:

[ftpiercecracker1]

An items value is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Its all relative. 

 

Sweet truck though.

[rylee144]

That is a great truck no doubt. But...putting 20k in a truck that's arguably worth 6-10k still makes it 6-10k. Plus you never get your time back in the value of the truck.

At 16 or any age your skills are amazing and I am envious! The truck is far better than I ever plan on mine being. Keep up the good work. Your truck will sell for that amount if your not in a hurry, imho

[Dzimm]

I wouldn't take it to heart, as stated above it is worth what someone will pay for it and I'm sure someone would pay that much for your truck.  Just keep in mind what you have put into will never have a full return, and sometimes have almost no return in value at all, especially labor.  Location makes a huge difference as well, the rust states always fetches higher prices so if you are in an area that has more trucks available or no rust, well supply and demand.  

 

That being said, I personally think your price point is fair for your truck.  Plus people on Fbook can be Aholes.

[500 MJ]

ALOT of folks are out there in the same boat. Getting hourly rates for work is a tough thing to justify on personal automotive work because you are not a paid professional - so there will always be the folks who are suspect of your work. You have to look at it as saving money in the process as compared to paying someone else to do the work. Also you acquire more tools and knowledge in the process and keep yourself out of trouble. Working on my own home and my vehicles, I know about the quality of work that I do and I am happy that I am able to save myself money over having the paid professional do the job and empty my wallet in the process. 

 

What it does come down to - its all a hobby for me, I can proudly say that I did this/that. I'm not in it to sell either of my trucks, I never have been. If I calculated out the time like you have above I'd probably be close to your numbers for my Blue truck and at least half for my White truck. But the market value is what it is, folks only pay what they want to for this stuff. Both trucks are mine and I know what they are worth to me, which is why they are not for sale. I could not recreate either of them easily today for what their market values are and THAT is worth more than the money I have into them.  

 

My advice if you want to make cash by working on cars, get into parting out vehicles that are somewhat rare (Comanche or any pre-1987 Jeep) or get into buying up cars at auction for pennies to purposefully clean them up, fix them and quickly flip them. 

[Pete M]

My only interjection is that you WILL regret selling that beauty. 

[derf]

10 hours ago, rylee144 said:

That is a great truck no doubt. But...putting 20k in a truck that's arguably worth 6-10k still makes it 6-10k. Plus you never get your time back in the value of the truck.

x2

 

While it seems unfair, this is the unfortunate reality of used vehicles.  If you're not a big professional restoration shop with a great reputation, you aren't going to get a lot more than KBB for a Comanche. 

 

You look like you have a lot of skill doing this kind of work.  If you want to make money at it, you'll need to work on vehicles that have room in the price range to cover labor.  Finding rare old muscle cars and making them like new probably has more potential for profit.  Good restorations or restomods go for many tens of thousands.

 

Either that or use builds like this as your resume to get hired on at a shop that will pay you for your labor.

[89 MJ]

47 minutes ago, Pete M said:

My only interjection is that you WILL regret selling that beauty. 

Maybe. But a LWB Metric Ton would be better suited for my needs. 

 

I get it, I don’t want to make all of my labor back, but I need to make some of it back so I can buy a reliable vehicle for going back and forth to school, not that that changes the value of the truck. 

[Minuit]

Looking over cars for sale is a little bit of a hobby of mine, so I'll bite. This might sound harsh, but none of it is aimed at you directly. This is a general playbook for someone buying or selling an old car that's been restored.

 

That money was gone the second you put it into your truck. Don't expect to get any of it back. Your valuation of your time and the money you put into it are irrelevant to anyone buying it. The market will decide if you get any of it back. If you do good, you might even make a profit. When you put how much you "invested" in the ad, you're pretty much wasting space. Cars are not investments, and even the "good investment" cars that will go up in value are terrible investments most of the time.

 

You're asking $12,000. That's at the very high end of MJ pricing right now. I would consider this a "restored, stock-ish" truck. Anyone considering paying this much for a Comanche is quite likely to be taking the ordeal seriously, so I'll role-play an informed buyer who is seriously considering looking at the truck but is clever enough to do some detective work first.

 

Let's start with the "macro" things.

 

It's a 4.0. Good. It's a Renix year. Potentially not good. Some people have stronger thoughts on this than others.

 

It's a 5-speed. Is it an AX-15 or BA-10? Most serious buyers are familiar with the difference by now, and people will be looking out for this since '89 was the transition year. Someone who knows what they're looking at will be able to tell this just by poking their head underneath. AX-15 is split laterally with an off-color plate in the middle, BA-10 is split longitudinally.

 

It's 4WD. Good. Buyers hate 2WD Jeeps with a burning passion in my experience.

 

It's been repainted in a non-factory color. I for one really like the color. It's shiny.

 

A serious buyer will try to run the VIN before doing anything else to see if something spicy comes up. I had to go looking for yours, but let's assume it is part of the ad. Your truck is on the registry, and googling the VIN reveals that this is definitely a restored truck. The first thing I saw when I googled your VIN was a picture of a multi-colored truck with a rusty rocker panel and cab corner.

 

If you end up with a buyer that's got an eye for detail, your job just got harder: "Restored" is not the magic buzzword it used to be, and "restored" runs the gamut from a Maaco paint job and a coat of wax to something that is pretty much indistinguishable from how it came from the factory. The buyer will have to decide what end of the scale your truck falls on. Here are some things that will be going through an informed buyer's head as they look the truck over. It's hard to get an eye for these things in pictures, but the more pictures the better.

 

- Is the quality of the work done high? Did someone give a damn when they put this together, or did they just slap it together as fast as possible with no regard to how things should be? Did they do any necessary fixes correctly, or half @$$ them? Are parts that take a concerted effort to line up correctly lined up correctly? In the engine bay, everything has a place it's supposed to be. Is it in that place?

 

- A truck with bodywork or paintwork done will always raise suspicion. Sorry, but it's true. The factory paintwork on the original MJs I've seen with my own eyes has been above and beyond the quality level of the typical repaint. I've extensively looked over the body of my 91, and I came to the conclusion that it came from the factory damn near perfect. Orange peel, swirl marks, any overspray, misalignment of badges - all count hugely against a repainted truck. Bottom line: it's hard to do as good a job as the factory did. Is the body straight? Are the body lines parallel? Are the panel gaps consistent? If the color has been changed, are the door jambs and engine bay the same color as the body?

 

- Is the quality of the parts used high? Did someone use junk aftermarket parts that are going to crap out again next year or did they use things that work?

 

- Vehicles are supposed to be driven. How does it drive? Is the alignment correct? Does everything work? Does anything make noise? Are there any weird smells such as oil burning off the exhaust? Is the steering tight? If A/C is present, does it work? How does the engine run? Does it sound like it should? Does it pull consistently through the power band?

 

- Rust is the skeleton in every MJ's closet. These damn things rust everywhere you CAN'T see first. Even pulling up the carpet is not usually enough to get a complete picture. If you can see rust on the outside (or any signs that there were rust), it's too late. Considering that, has the floorpan been checked? Have the floor braces been lifted to check for rust in all layers of the floor assembly? If the floors were worked on, was it done properly? Does water get in when it rains? Does the clutch master cylinder leak?

 

How do you know if someone looking at the truck is an informed buyer? They won't look at the truck from 20 feet away for long. A vehicle is the sum of all of its small details, so they'll get in close and look at the most common trouble spots. They usually don't talk much while they're doing this, but if they do talk, they'll be asking questions. When an informed buyer looks over a truck, they're grading a test you took before you even met, and what you tell them is secondary to what they see. He probably won't be asking questions because he wants to know the answer - many of the things he asks you will be to tell if you're blowing smoke up his @$$ or not.

 

In the classic car world (which Comanches are getting ever closer to being part of) it's commonly said that modifications lower the value, not increase it. The inclination of the buyer will determine if that's true for you. If the buyer likes cut fenders and off-road bumpers for instance, they'll be willing to pay more for it. If you get someone with more money than sense and just wants to drop $20k on something shiny, everything I wrote above goes out the window. But you've got to prepare for the worst case scenario, and for a restored truck that's an informed buyer that knows what he or she's looking at.

 

If a guy like me shows up though? Switching out the bumper and more importantly, cutting the front fenders, means a few thousand off the price I'm willing to pay. When you modify a vehicle and then sell it, you are limiting the pool of people that would be interested in it. People are just fine with modifying a stock truck they bought, but very few people are willing to un-modify someone else's project.

 

This isn't everything I have to say, but it is most of it. Good luck with the sale if you decide to sell it.

 

[Pete M]

Honestly Jeremy, you should do a writeup one of these days on "how to shop for an MJ" complete with pics and such.   

[Torq_Shep]

Torq's method...

 

Is it cheap? Yes!

Is it rusty? Not really.

Does it run? Who cares!

SOLD

 

In all honesty. It is worth what someone would pay for it. If your truck was a 1991, the front fenders were not cut, and it was local/I actually had money and was in the market, I would pay 12k assuming everything Minuit pointed out is accurate. However, that is based solely on what I would want in a truck. 

 

Market price varies wildly by location and build specs. Your truck is stock-ish which MOST buyers would want, Manual/shortbed seems to be in higher demand (assuming AX-15), 4WD is higher demand (even though I specifically wanted a 2WD), paint and bodywork looks good in pictures but I would have to check for runs or orange peel IRL. 

 

My advice... Don't sell it and don't worry about the value of it until you are really sure you want to sell it (which you will likely regret). Have your "I would sell for this much no questions asked price" in the back of your mind if you get stopped at a gas station with an offer. But otherwise don't think about it.

 

BTW if anyone wants to buy my truck for 4500 it's always for sale =P

 

[NHMJXJ]

Ignore Facebook … people will willingly share their unsolicited opinion. It's not a news source or a resource for credible information.  

 

My two bits … qualified by;  Yours is a very nice truck and it's pretty well documented what you put into it (and I'm not talking dollars). 

 

That said …  $12K is high end.  That's an asking price for a turn key.   "Turn key" is just that.   You state yours needs a motor swap.  

If you're asking all the money, it should be ready for delivery, otherwise be prepared to negotiate.    

 

I would echo what Pete said.  You'll regret selling that truck.

 

 

[89 MJ]

Thanks guys!

[CoastChief]

4 hours ago, Pete M said:

My only interjection is that you WILL regret selling that beauty. 

with that much time involved. You’re understanding of the truck. I can imagine it be like loosing an old friend. I see them auction for 7-10 sometimes. I’m defiantly worse condition. 
 

16 years old with that kind of knowledge! I have only the highest hopes for you! Seem like you’re ahead of the crowd!! 
 

people on Facebook Jeep groups are brutal. I joined this club because I was tried of people be rude. “ thats a noob sensor “. Etc. 

 

Post it I SoCal and other states. 
 

I noticed that many of the people on “Jeeps for sale/trade SoCal” are people from out of state trying to get clean ones. 

[89 MJ]

2 hours ago, CoastChief said:

with that much time involved. You’re understanding of the truck. I can imagine it be like loosing an old friend. I see them auction for 7-10 sometimes. I’m defiantly worse condition. 
 

16 years old with that kind of knowledge! I have only the highest hopes for you! Seem like you’re ahead of the crowd!! 
 

people on Facebook Jeep groups are brutal. I joined this club because I was tried of people be rude. “ thats a noob sensor “. Etc. 

 

Post it I SoCal and other states. 
 

I noticed that many of the people on “Jeeps for sale/trade SoCal” are people from out of state trying to get clean ones. 

Thanks

[Smokeyyank]

I've had A LOT of vehicles in my life. Probably at least 1 a year for the 20ish year's I've been legally able to drive. They've ranged from classics to new and all the junk in between. I've never lost money on anything I bought (except the one new car which I said never again), a few I've made a good chunk of change on but most are a break even and that's just for parts, labor yeah forget it. No offense to you at all but for me it's not a 12k MJ, maybe 8-10k tops. A few of the things you did are specific to what you like but others may not like it. For me the wheels and bumper are two things that really stand out that I'm not a fan of. Had you done a full 97+ swap with different wheels I could see it being a little more inline with a higher price, but as it is now going to be a little bit of a tougher sale. But as the saying in car sales go an @$$ for every seat. 

 

Restos are tough to make money on and really you have to find something that appeals to a wide audience. IMHO MJ's are awesome but it' will be hard for them to ever compete with a c10 or K5 marketplace. Body work is also one of those things that while it's nice to have done and done well, there has to be other things contributing to the overall vehicle to make it worth while. On a jeep body work becomes a really a weird area. On one hand you have vehicle you're supposed take off road and get dirty other hand if the pain is nice you don't really want to. 

 

I loved driving my MJ around but given the choice of a cruising vehicle it wouldn't be my first choice or even second. If I was going to spend 10k on something to cruise around in MJ ain't making my top 10 list, but as a trail rig better believe it's my first. 

[JMO413]

I think if you put the engine in and have everything working perfect. If you stand your ground and wait it out someone will give you what you want for it. But it will have to be turn key ready to drive. The people that will pay that kinda $$$ don't want to work on stuff. IMHO 

Best of luck!

[BeatCJ]

On 6/15/2020 at 7:11 AM, 89 MJ said:

Maybe. But a LWB Metric Ton would be better suited for my needs. 

 

I get it, I don’t want to make all of my labor back, but I need to make some of it back so I can buy a reliable vehicle for going back and forth to school, not that that changes the value of the truck. 

Get it done, like everything you think you would EVER want to do, and you might get $12K. But like said above, it's not there yet.

And in my mind, since you are so far along, put the Metric Ton Suspension under it, and drive it for 30 years. I myself can't see why anyone would want a LWB. At that point, you need a full size, anyway. I have two trucks, the Comanche and a DRW 3500.

You have done a beautiful job. My Mom has several restored hotrods. They bought all of them for about 35 cents on the dollar. The only one not for sale is the '32 T, because her husband built it, and can never get out of it what he has put in.

[89 MJ]

1 hour ago, BeatCJ said:

You have done a beautiful job. My Mom has several restored hotrods. They bought all of them for about 35 cents on the dollar. The only one not for sale is the '32 T, because her husband built it, and can never get out of it what he has put in.

What else does she have?

[89 MJ]

1 hour ago, JMO413 said:

I think if you put the engine in and have everything working perfect. If you stand your ground and wait it out someone will give you what you want for it. But it will have to be turn key ready to drive. The people that will pay that kinda $$$ don't want to work on stuff. IMHO 

Best of luck!

That is the plan, I’ve just been commenting on FB in case someone liked it then the motor work would get moved up in the timeframe. 

[BeatCJ]

The list is long, and I don't pay that much attention. A couple of early 30's pickups, a post war 40's Plymouth roadster, a couple of 1940 Fords, one is original as a driver, the other has a fairly warm flathead V-8, an early 50's Ford, a 67 GTO, a late 70s Cadillac. The '32 T Bucket made it's first trip down the dragstrip the same year I was born, 1961. He has frame jigs to build '32-'34 frames from scratch. 

[89 MJ]

2 hours ago, BeatCJ said:

The list is long, and I don't pay that much attention. A couple of early 30's pickups, a post war 40's Plymouth roadster, a couple of 1940 Fords, one is original as a driver, the other has a fairly warm flathead V-8, an early 50's Ford, a 67 GTO, a late 70s Cadillac. The '32 T Bucket made it's first trip down the dragstrip the same year I was born, 1961. He has frame jigs to build '32-'34 frames from scratch. 

Cool! A local guy that I know builds 35-40 frames from scratch. 

[Blue XJ]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 11:29 PM, rylee144 said:

That is a great truck no doubt. But...putting 20k in a truck that's arguably worth 6-10k still makes it 6-10k. Plus you never get your time back in the value of the truck.

 

I had well over $20k into mine, Stroker, new transmission, Alloy shafts, rear disk brakes, gears, ARB's, tires, wheels, winch, everything brand new.   I had it listed for $6500 for over a year, ended up selling it for $4250 because I didn't have room for it at the new house.   I don't feel like I took a $16k+ loss on it, I sold it for what others valued it at, at the time.

 

Like Pete said, I regret selling it, and want to replace it, but can't justify spending the same amount, or more on one that is stock and needs work.