Meant to buy a parts rig....

[88towmanche]

looking around for a parts rig - figured I'd strip stuff off I want an push it along to the next guy.

 

Found a same year match XJ - this one is a two door Laredo 4.0 5 spd 4x4

 

Now thinking might fix this one up - super straight, no rust, motor seems very strong and sounds right (no ticking/clunking) needs paint and some interior refresh (headliner) and have few tech questions:

 

1.  Seller threw in a lift kit with the deal (see pic) the box the coil springs are in say Rubicon Express, there are four Billstien shocks, shackles and leaf springs - but have no idea how high this kit will push the rig - easy way to check?  Didn't see any markings on the leafs but didn't look too close - I am good with a couple inch lift but don't really want 5" or something that really messes with the steering geometry and have to redo all the brake lines...I guess I can measure the coils or look up the part number and see how much I am looking at compared to stock.

 

2.  I was able to run 31" tires on the MJ with a puck & Shackle lift and WJ LCA's - same with the XJ?  Or better off with 30"?

 

3.  Brake is "sticky" - weird deal, sometimes when you push on the brakes they stick or drag but you can put your foot under the brake pedal an un-stick them by pulling on the pedal - this HAS to be the brake booster or something wrong with the brake pedal itself right?  No way you and un-stick a caliper by pulling up on the brake pedal.....since this is an 88 and same basic set up as the MJ, should do the WJ booster upgrade yes?

 

4.  BA 10 5 speed - PO says he did a clutch job - no details if he did it himself and/or what was done, looks like a new master cylinder...anyway, after driving it 50 miles home on the freeway found it almost impossible to shift into any gear - shut it off and you can get in the gears, but not while it was running - no grinding or anything, just couldn't finagle it into gear - next morning while cold it shifted just fine, didn't warm it up enough to replicate the problem.  Not sure if something is lined up wrong or what - haven't had any problems with the BA10 on the MJ so not sure if this is failure mode or what.

 

5.  Crusiers tips mostly all the same for the XJ as MJ I presume - will get started on that process firs, can see ALL the grounds need to be replaced already.

 

Clock says 125,000  miles - think that may be accurate, does not look to have been messed with much 

 

 

[89 MJ]

Keep it. 

[eaglescout526]

Good score. Looks worthy of a future resto.

[Limeyjeeper]

If it is truly rust free then keep it. Very rare to find one that old with zero rust. 2 door Jeep Xj's are cool.

[88towmanche]

7 minutes ago, Limeyjeeper said:

If it is truly rust free then keep it. Very rare to find one that old with zero rust. 2 door Jeep Xj's are cool.

No rust I can find yet - could be issues under the carpet but can't see anything from underneath - don't have a lot of rust issues in the Pac NW - they don't put salt down on the roads.

 

Yeah, this one is pretty cool - funny, the wife really rolled her eyes when I first drove the MJ home - now she thinks it's cool and wants me to fix up the Cherokee...so will see if I can get the mechanicals squared away & then reach out to my paint guy.

 

 

[Pete M]

is there any damage to that rocker?

[88towmanche]

36 minutes ago, Pete M said:

is there any damage to that rocker?

Good question - I don't think so door obviously has a dent - might be making it look like the rocker is damaged in the picture, but will take a closer look when I get home tonight - ran my hands along the rockers and pinch welds all around the rig feeling for rust or paint bubbles and don't remember feeling any damage in that area but was mostly focused on the door itself 

[krustyballer16]

Faded paint looks like a mountain scene to me lol. Keep it and get it going strong!

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[CODriver]

I honestly like the way the paint fading looks. Anyways, that's one hell of a find! It doesn't deserve the "for parts" destiny 

[JMO413]

I would have to keep it. Just to nice to part out. I also like the faded paint patina.

[Eagle]

9 hours ago, 88towmanche said:

1.  Seller threw in a lift kit with the deal (see pic) the box the coil springs are in say Rubicon Express, there are four Billstien shocks, shackles and leaf springs - but have no idea how high this kit will push the rig - easy way to check?  Didn't see any markings on the leafs but didn't look too close - I am good with a couple inch lift but don't really want 5" or something that really messes with the steering geometry and have to redo all the brake lines...I guess I can measure the coils or look up the part number and see how much I am looking at compared to stock.

 

 

You could measure the shocks and compare the mid-travel length with the mid-travel length for stock. That's a clue, but I wouldn't consider it conclusive.

 

Quote

2.  I was able to run 31" tires on the MJ with a puck & Shackle lift and WJ LCA's - same with the XJ?  Or better off with 30"?

 

 

You can run 31x10.50 tires on factory wheels on an XJ with no lift at all. Same on an MJ. My '88 XJ is in the drveway with 31s on zero lift right now.

 

Quote

3.  Brake is "sticky" - weird deal, sometimes when you push on the brakes they stick or drag but you can put your foot under the brake pedal an un-stick them by pulling on the pedal - this HAS to be the brake booster or something wrong with the brake pedal itself right?  No way you and un-stick a caliper by pulling up on the brake pedal.....since this is an 88 and same basic set up as the MJ, should do the WJ booster upgrade yes?

 

 

Why? You "should" do it only if you can enumerate some specific benefit you'll achieve by going through that rather than just fixing the stock brakes.

 

Quote

4.  BA 10 5 speed - PO says he did a clutch job - no details if he did it himself and/or what was done, looks like a new master cylinder...anyway, after driving it 50 miles home on the freeway found it almost impossible to shift into any gear - shut it off and you can get in the gears, but not while it was running - no grinding or anything, just couldn't finagle it into gear - next morning while cold it shifted just fine, didn't warm it up enough to replicate the problem.  Not sure if something is lined up wrong or what - haven't had any problems with the BA10 on the MJ so not sure if this is failure mode or what.

 

 

Bleed the clutch hydraulics.

 

Quote

5.  Crusiers tips mostly all the same for the XJ as MJ I presume - will get started on that process firs, can see ALL the grounds need to be replaced already.

 

 

Pretty much the same.

[88towmanche]

13 hours ago, Eagle said:

 

Why? You "should" do it only if you can enumerate some specific benefit you'll achieve by going through that rather than just fixing the stock brakes.

 

Did I get this wrong?  

 

There are a lot posts on CC that enumerate quite a few benefits by doing the brake booster upgrade but maybe that is just for Comanches?

 

If the existing booster is bad on the XJ (not confirmed, suspected) thought I would just replace it with a supposed upgrade - if the later WJ booster is not an upgrade for the XJ like is supposedly is for the MJ, will just stick with OEM.

 

 

[Eagle]

It's as much or as little an upgrade for the XJ as it is for the MJ. I've just never found the braking of any of my early (pre-HO) XJs or MJs to be so horrible that it was worth going through the aggravation of doing this purported "upgrade."

[88towmanche]

1 hour ago, Eagle said:

It's as much or as little an upgrade for the XJ as it is for the MJ. I've just never found the braking of any of my early (pre-HO) XJs or MJs to be so horrible that it was worth going through the aggravation of doing this purported "upgrade."

 

Ok

[omega_rugal]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:25 PM, Limeyjeeper said:

2 door Jeep Xj's are cool.

 

yeah i want one...

 

keep it, it[s still fixable, no MJm or XJ deserves to be crushed unless it has rust cancer and or has been it a crash

[JustEmptyEveryPocket]

9 hours ago, Eagle said:

I've just never found the braking of any of my early (pre-HO) XJs or MJs to be so horrible that it was worth going through the aggravation of doing this purported "upgrade."

I was in the same situation as you. Booster was failing, so I went whole hog and redid everything. Dual diaphragm booster, distribution block, proportioning valve, all lines, etc. I am less than impressed. Braking power feels similar to original booster when it was working properly. Big let-down. 

 

Just fix/ replace with similar items in this case. Keeps life and your rig simple.

[88towmanche]

Might be a parts rig after all....

 

Bought the XJ for $1400 lift kit & all.

 

Have a Bill of Sale for $1400, says $1400 sell price on the title.

 

State of Washington says fair market value of a 1988 2 dr 4.0 XJ is $13,650 according to Nadaguides.com

 

So to get this titled using a fair market value of $13,650 I am supposed to pony up another $1,200-$1,400 which is about what I paid for the rig.

 

Nadaguides.com does show high retail for the 88 XJ at $13,650 which seems ridiculous - KBB and Edmunds do not go back that far so can't use them....angry dude at the DMV acted like he won the lottery went from pissed at the world to happy as a clam as he gave me the news - so title transfer on hold for now while I research options - might try a couple more licensing offices see if I find friendlier staff, someone has to be able to understand the absurdity....right?

 

Anyone want to buy a rough but restorable 88 XJ?   Make you hell of a deal at $6825 can double your money....

[Pete M]

what?  In Michigan I just tell them what I paid for it.  what is going on here? 

[eaglescout526]

|ts WA. I may have paid a lump on my 84 but registration was expensive. I think $800

[88towmanche]

1 hour ago, eaglescout526 said:

|ts WA. I may have paid a lump on my 84 but registration was expensive. I think $800

 

Yep - the flying monkeys in Olympia are sure they are getting ripped off by people lying about buy/sell prices and want their pound of flesh.

 

Purchase price for the XJ was less than $2,000 so that automatically triggers comparison to market value

 

The only resource they have for establishing market value on an 88 is Nadaguides.com and when the discrepancy is over $2,000 they use High Retail

 

Nadaguides.com can go pound sand - their valuations are terrible and always have been.

 

Of note:  If you run Nadaguides on a 1988 XJ 2 dr LIMITED (instead of anything else) the high retail drops from $13,650 to $5,625 - so next office I go into I am going to claim the XJ is a Limited and see if that calms them down some.  

 

The fact that Nadaguides values the Limited XJ as $8000.00 less than a base XJ should be evidence enough that their valuations are shixt.

 

Also, if the I get with seller and we change the purchase price to $2400 it will probably fly under the radar although I'll have to pay another $100 in tax (better than $1000)

 

Or, I can throw that $100 to the seller and have him claim he "gifted" me the car and the State gets nothing.....but I'm not interested in trying to pull a fast one or stick it to the man, just want to get this thing titled.

 

 

[eaglescout526]

Yeah WA seems backasswards. I love the beauty of the state but I love AZ so much more and the laws and such are way better to keep me here and love the heat I was born into.

[amsuco]

12 hours ago, 88towmanche said:

Or, I can throw that $100 to the seller and have him claim he "gifted" me the car and the State gets nothing.....but I'm not interested in trying to pull a fast one or stick it to the man, just want to get this thing titled.

 

 

 

When you get right down to it, taxation is just legalized theft.  So keep every dollar you can, any way that you can!

[PCO6]

In Ontario, you have to get an appraisal for any vehicle that is 20 years or older in order for you to transfer the title into your name.   That includes ones that are gifted to you.   It's a pain if you pick up a vehicle that is immobile, although I have had appraisers come to my house for a slightly higher fee.   If you buy a parts car that you think you might restore one day it's best to get it appraised and transfer it into your name.

 

There are basically 2 types of appraisals, one for vehicle ownership transfer and a more detailed one for insurance purposes.   For tax purposes on transfers, the Ministry of Transportation uses the higher of the appraisal or the bill of sale, which is usually bogus anyway.  

 

My MJ & XJ, which were both complete and good running/looking vehicles, were appraised for about $4,000 CDN (roughly $3,000 USD) so the tax hit at about 10% wasn't all that bad.   What really bugs me is that I have a 2003 TJ and a 2004 LJ.   To me they're not that old but they would have be appraised at the buyer's expense if I decide to sell them in a few years.

 

 

[Jeep Driver]

You guys are getting hosed. 

 

Chuckles.

[Minuit]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:45 PM, 88towmanche said:

 

Ok

This has been bugging me for quite some time. The dismissive tone of this reply did not help.

 

My 91 has its original booster and master cylinder. I also still have the rear proportioning valve. I also did what everyone says not to do and will not work - I added rear disc brakes to a completely stock system, leaving the LSV intact with the original booster. You can find many examples of people saying that this is bad, on this forum and elsewhere.

 

I can lock my front tires well before full pedal application.  I had to turn my rear brake pressure down to prevent premature rear lockup. In any situation where you can lock your brakes, the limit of your braking ability is the traction of the tires. Pushing the pedal more will not help, nor will adding a larger booster that magnifies the brake pedal force more. Installing huge calipers and rotors will shorten the stopping distance by zero percent if the system already could lock the wheels. You're just adding more brake force when you already had enough to begin with. Once the wheels are locked up, you've already broken static friction between the tires and the road. More brake pressure does absolutely nothing to help you stop!

 

So what the hell is there to gain by adding more brake pressure with a larger booster? Unless you can not lock the wheels with your original booster, absolutely nothing. Anyone who could lock the wheels with their original booster is shortening their braking distance by zero percent by adding the later booster. If they say otherwise, they're fooling themselves into thinking lower pedal pressure means shorter braking distances or lying based on a false understanding of physics.

 

To everyone who has swapped out brake parts and claims their truck stops in a shorter distance when their original parts were already capable of locking the wheels: if you like the lower pedal pressure of a larger booster, that's fine. But I won't let you lie to people and say it will shorten your stopping distance, because it won't. If you want to stop in a shorter distance, get better tires. Unless you can't lock your wheels with full brake application, your braking distance lies purely in your tires.

 

I'll also take this chance to say that braking distance is one of the few things that has not massively improved in the 30 years since our trucks were made. The best vehicles of the 80s and 90s stop in distances that are competitive with (and sometimes better than) cars of today. A skilled driver threshold braking a non-ABS vehicle will stop in a shorter distance than someone applying full pressure and activating ABS, all else being equal.. Motorweek has a comprehensive archive of footage from the 80s on up. I picked a car that I could find old and recent data from - the BMW M5. The 1993 model stops from 60 in 106 feet. The 2013 model stops from 60 in... 108 feet!