Are MJ's....actually safe?

[pizzaman09]

My other classic is a 62 Austin Healey Sprite.  We added lap belts but the steering column does not collapse and the windshield is a foot from your face.  I drive it like I stole it, however I do avoid highways in it.  The best piece of safety equipment I've put on it was very bright LED headlights and a red ribbon on the top of the antenna as it is near invisible to most motorist.  Very similar to being on a motorcycle.  I even have been known to daily drive the Sprite for weeks or months straight, it's a car and it gets me to where I want to go in the most fun way.

 

The Comanche feels just fine to me, the safety doesn't bother me one bit.

[75sv1]

On 3/11/2023 at 10:13 PM, Pete M said:

at the end of the day, they are as safe as most small vehicles in the 80s.  which is to say they are safer than most anything made in the 70s and way safer than anything made before that.  but a modern car with modern crumple zones and airbags and stiff rollover requirements is just leaps and bounds ahead of the old stuff.  which is as it should be.   

 

but any car is safer than any motorcycle, so it's all relative and you have to choose what level your happy with.   

That is unless you get run over by a Tank. Some years back on one of the Mecedes boards, people posted stories and pictures of MB's in wrecks.  One of the stories was one that was run over by a tank in Europe. The Tank guys thought they had swished the MB guy. Then they heard someone saying to get them out.

[dasbulliwagen]

I agree that these trucks arent any less safe than anything else built in the same time period. But, as someone whos never been concerned with a vehicles safety rating, it doesnt bother me. My first daily in high school was a rusted out 1964 VW Beetle. The thing was a death trap, but I drove it because it was fun and cool. Many other air cooled VWs came after that including a '59 Microbus... talk about crash ratings!!! Old vehicles are like that, and if youre forever worried about how safe you are, you shouldnt ever leave your house, but even there, there are things that can still kill you. I'll turn 50 this year, and I just bought myself another VW, a 1960 model Bug. And Id love to have another motorcycle. Some pleasures are worth the risk.  We're all going to die someday, might as well enjoy it while youre still here.

[NHMJXJ]

33 minutes ago, dasbulliwagen said:

We're all going to die someday, might as well enjoy it while youre still here.

 

Hear hear!    Add life to your years!

 

 

 

[Pete M]

1 hour ago, dasbulliwagen said:

 if you're forever worried about how safe you are, you shouldnt ever leave your house,

 

just because I'm completely unwilling to ride a moped though atlanta rush hour traffic, doesn't mean I'm "forever worried".  there's a sliding scale going on here that each person needs to choose for themselves.    

[gogmorgo]

I’m definitely not concerned about my safety driving an MJ around. Out on the highway with 18 wheelers around, my itty bitty little Lada Samara definitely makes me aware of my own mortality, but I’m not terrified of getting squished, either. Don’t crash and you don’t need to know how safe your car is. The only cars I’ve felt genuinely unsafe driving are the ones that will make me think they’ll fall apart on me. Or riding passenger in a car where the driver doesn’t seem to be able to keep the thing moving in the direction it’s supposed to be going. 
I wouldn’t want to crash in even the newest, safest car out there either. Sure you’ll probably be fine, but you never know. 

[DirtyComanche]

I think about it and considered adding a roll cage/5 point harnesses.  There is some issues with doing that, but you could probably improve survivability by a fair amount.

 

But then I haven't bothered to put a cage in my XJ that I wheel...  So, umm, maybe that should be the priority over a MJ that doesn't run/drive.

[Pete M]

that's why I had the DOM rollbar installed in my MJ.  saw a few images of rolled MJ/XJs and decided I want more. 

[FrankTheDog]

9 hours ago, dasbulliwagen said:

I agree that these trucks arent any less safe than anything else built in the same time period. But, as someone whos never been concerned with a vehicles safety rating, it doesnt bother me. My first daily in high school was a rusted out 1964 VW Beetle. The thing was a death trap, but I drove it because it was fun and cool. Many other air cooled VWs came after that including a '59 Microbus... talk about crash ratings!!! Old vehicles are like that, and if youre forever worried about how safe you are, you shouldnt ever leave your house, but even there, there are things that can still kill you. I'll turn 50 this year, and I just bought myself another VW, a 1960 model Bug. And Id love to have another motorcycle. Some pleasures are worth the risk.  We're all going to die someday, might as well enjoy it while youre still here.

 

AMEN!!!

 

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

[dasbulliwagen]

14 hours ago, Pete M said:

 

just because I'm completely unwilling to ride a moped though atlanta rush hour traffic, doesn't mean I'm "forever worried".  there's a sliding scale going on here that each person needs to choose for themselves.    

Having driven through Atlanta a number of times, I agree with you, but I would say that with ANY vehicle driving through Atlanta. It has to be one of, if not the worst cities to drive in, in the country. 

[Classy Comanche]

Yeah I'm not at all deterred from driving my truck by no means or scared of it. I just initially thought it maybe had air bags, but maybe not. I really love enjoy driving it. One of my younger cousins that had just got his license REFUSES to ride in the MJ. Even when he asks me to give him a lift he always says "bring the car, don't drive the truck" and it's so hilarious. He's a bit of a safety freak. He loves old cars. Won't ride or drive one because of the lack of safety features  

[gogmorgo]

Don’t crash and you don’t need the safety features ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Might be he’s got opinions about your driving he doesn’t want to share? 
JK. Truck was built to be driven. Might as well drive it. 

[Pete M]

once again, it's not being a "safety freak" to understand old cars vs new cars and to see just how many accidents happen every day.  crash stats and physics are real things.  last year I almost lost my 70+ year old mom to a head-on with a driver that didn't have his headlights on.  but the '16 durango took it in stride and she was able to open the door and get out under her own power.  the other car was smaller but still modern and the front end was obliterated but the doors still opened.  I repeat, 50mph head on collision and no one had to be cut out of their respective cars.  seatbelts are great, next-gen airbags are great, but modern crumple zones and cab structures are truly impressive. 

 

drive what you like.   but understand that not everyone shares the belief that nothing will ever go wrong.  mitigation of risk is not a bad thing. 

[Classy Comanche]

Lol he's just a safety freak. It's how he was brought up I guess. Does everything with extreme caution. I told him he needs to enjoy himself and be safe but not overly cautious. If anything he should be more scared of the Monty because in that it's easier to speed and not know it than the truck. I think drivers Ed has him scared straight with those car crash videos they have you watch. But I did tell him to loosen up and enjoy older vehicles before they're gone or to expensive to buy/work on

[Pete M]

I assure you, telling someone that thinks you're endangering them to "loosen up" will not ever go the way you want it to.   only time and positive experiences might ease that thought process.  it's not imaginary that the car is safer than the MJ.  that's very real.  he just needs to find belief that the MJ is safe enough.  that's a harder sell if he's already convinced to the contrary.  I'm not sure how to do that.    I taught both my nephews how to ride a bike without the stupid training wheels.  that's about as far as my experience goes. 

 

 

[Eagle]

On 3/14/2023 at 1:10 PM, Classy Comanche said:

Yeah I'm not at all deterred from driving my truck by no means or scared of it. I just initially thought it maybe had air bags, but maybe not. I really love enjoy driving it. One of my younger cousins that had just got his license REFUSES to ride in the MJ. Even when he asks me to give him a lift he always says "bring the car, don't drive the truck" and it's so hilarious. He's a bit of a safety freak. He loves old cars. Won't ride or drive one because of the lack of safety features  

 

Nothing personal, but your cousin is an idiot.

 

I've already told the story of my grad school roommate (the consummate car nut, BTW), who credits their XJ with saving the lives of his wife and two kids when they were hit head-one by a larger vehicle.

 

I didn't mention the '87 XJ I have parked out behind my garage. I bought it from the secretary of a company I once worked for after she was t-boned in the driver's side A-pillar when a car ran a red light. It was towed back to her house, where her then-boyfriend bolted a junkyard driver's door on it, and she continued to drive it. The A-piller is definitely bent and I didn't buy it to fix, I bought it for parts -- but the unibody held up much better than a body-on-frame vehicle of the same size and vintage would have survived.

 

* No airbag

* No side airbags

* No reinforced beams in any of the doors

 

Did I mentioned that her only injury was a couple of bruises?

[Big_Mark]

I've been thinking about this topic for a few days so here's my take.

 

Safety is relative.

You can't rely on drivers around you to keep you safe, so you need to know the limits of your vehicle (any vehicle), safety features, faults, peculiarities, and so on.

 

Part of vehicle safety is operating the vehicle within the boundaries of the vehicles capabilities.

For instance I can do 85-90 in my Jeep but I don't, it's got a 6" lift and my timing chain needs to be replaced, either one of those gigs are reason enough not to drive at excessive speeds because, for the lift: the stock geometry is altered. While this is great for wheeling, it's not super for on road performance. for the timing chain: I need to drive like grandma, or at least keep the RPMs under redline until I can address the issue, even with OD getting up to 90 MPH will take some RPMs, so I don't.

Also my brakes work well, but not great so I maintain a good following distance and drive defensively in traffic.

 

I discovered these things by working on my Jeep, observing how the car handles and performs, then have adjusted my driving style, for this car to follow suit.

 

I believe if you do something like this with your Jeep you will be a safer driver that operates their MJ within it's safe operational boundaries. Aside from that there isn't much you can do to add safety features unless you want to retrofit an air bag for some feel goods.

 

Other drivers are something we have no control over, the best you can do is stay alert.

Like the Drill Sgt says "Stay alert, Stay alive"

 

I've driven "unsafe" cars for years and continue to do so. Fortunately, defensive driving and driving within the capabilities of my rides have done me right, hopefully it works for you too.

 

[FrankTheDog]

42 minutes ago, Big_Mark said:

I've been thinking about this topic for a few days so here's my take.

 

Safety is relative.

You can't rely on drivers around you to keep you safe, so you need to know the limits of your vehicle (any vehicle), safety features, faults, peculiarities, and so on.

 

Part of vehicle safety is operating the vehicle within the boundaries of the vehicles capabilities.

For instance I can do 85-90 in my Jeep but I don't, it's got a 6" lift and my timing chain needs to be replaced, either one of those gigs are reason enough not to drive at excessive speeds because, for the lift: the stock geometry is altered. While this is great for wheeling, it's not super for on road performance. for the timing chain: I need to drive like grandma, or at least keep the RPMs under redline until I can address the issue, even with OD getting up to 90 MPH will take some RPMs, so I don't.

Also my brakes work well, but not great so I maintain a good following distance and drive defensively in traffic.

 

I discovered these things by working on my Jeep, observing how the car handles and performs, then have adjusted my driving style, for this car to follow suit.

 

I believe if you do something like this with your Jeep you will be a safer driver that operates their MJ within it's safe operational boundaries. Aside from that there isn't much you can do to add safety features unless you want to retrofit an air bag for some feel goods.

 

Other drivers are something we have no control over, the best you can do is stay alert.

Like the Drill Sgt says "Stay alert, Stay alive"

 

I've driven "unsafe" cars for years and continue to do so. Fortunately, defensive driving and driving within the capabilities of my rides have done me right, hopefully it works for you too.

 

Amen

[Classy Comanche]

I mean I drive my truck like a old person. It doesn't see over 55 on the highway hence why I keep it off of there best I can. I stop at most if not all yellow lights to avoid a accident and always keep almost 10ft ahead of me so I can brake. I drive as safe as you can possible. I even take scenic routes/long ways to avoid traffic as well and when parking always park far away from everyone so there's slim chance of getting hit/dinged. It's not full proof but it definitely helps me for sure. I also leave in plenty time when I go somewhere so I can just cruise and enjoy the ride and take my time

[rokinn]

Notwithstanding the occasional denigrating characterization of individuals with a lower level threshold for managing their anxiety and perceived threat (real or not) doesn't mean their assessments are without merit.  Riding in a vehicle that doesn't have head rests is a pay your money and take your chances kind of situation.  Having been rear ended when I was in my 20's transformed my life for the worse for nearly a couple of decades experiencing severe neck pain, debilitating headaches, and post traumatic vision syndrome.  The better my vision was corrected the worse the headaches became.  I was barely employable for much of that time.  Cervical spine arthritis and spinal stenosis being the current state of affairs in spite of the therapy I did to heal the injuries.  I had headrests but the car was crushed up to the back window and the seats broke loose from the floor boards.  I was making a left turn on a semi rural road at sunset and the car behind me didn't see me or slow down.

 

In the late 90's someone ran a stop light in a snow storm T-boning me on the drivers side at the front wheel resulting in a brain injury that took a good 5 years to even begin to see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Personality changes, depression, cognitive and memory losses and years of testing and therapy was the result of someone else's negligence.  In many instances the drugs that were prescribed only worsened the symptoms.  Business and income losses diving into debt that wasn't quickly or easily resolved.  Luckily I have made a full recovery, in some ways I'm healthier than I was thanks to state of the art trauma therapy.  Something I decided to get trained and certified in myself to add to my 30 year profession in structure integrative bodywork.  The human kind!

 

I'm not paranoid but I also drive very defensively.  Took me awhile to get to that point having once been diagnosed with PTSD.  I don't assume that others are following the rules of the road or even paying attention, what with the new danger, cell phones.  Not tail gating is your best defense from being rear ended.  You might have the reflexes to stop in time but that doesn't mean the guy behind you does.

 

There are a great many reasons why people have different self regulation capabilities around anxiety (free form or not) and fight or flight responses to stimuli.  Critical and denigrating attitudes toward them only reinforces the complex, jeopardizes the bond you may have with them resulting in a loss of trust and respect.  Resourcing their notions of success and a positive experience and outcome in any situation, MJ's or not, is paramount to expanding a persons ability to confront challenging situations unique to them.

[Eagle]

I wasn't suggesting that Classy tell his cousin he's an idiot -- that's just among us.

 

For those who apparently aren't aware -- the XJ and the MJ were designed using crumple zone technology. If you have access to u-pull junkyards (they're illegal in Connecticut, and have been for decades), check out some XJs and MJs that have been hit in the front. See how bad the front frame horns and inner fenders are, where the engine ended up -- and whether or not anything made it into the passenger compartment.

 

[gogmorgo]

Yes… but they’re also only part of the first generation of vehicles that used crumple zones. We’ve learned a ton about crash safety in the last 40 years. NHTSA only gives the XJ three stars for crashworthiness. IIHS calls it Marginal. And I’m pretty sure that was in contrast to the vehicles from its time, not modern vehicles. 

[dasbulliwagen]

This has been a very interesting conversation.  I like it when topics like this come up. This particular question from Classy isn't something I've seen here before. 

 

Here's a pic of my MJ bringing my new deathtrap home. This is the first time I've tried towing anything with my little 2.5. The bug doesn't weigh much, but still it was a little slow going. Luckily there was very little traffic.

 

The plan for it is a full fenderless Volksrod rat build with an extended front end. I start a thread in the other projects section once I get going on it. 

[neohic]

12 minutes ago, dasbulliwagen said:

The plan for it is a full fenderless Volksrod rat build with an extended front end. I start a thread in the other projects section once I get going on it. 

 

I'm very much looking forward to this!

[FrankTheDog]

 

How’s this for safe.

 

Luckily l put 4:10’s in it before I tried this endeavor.

1981 Westy hauled from Knoxville to Winsted CT.