Controversial Vehicle Opinions

[ThatJeepGuy]

I am one to say id rather have a mid 90s minivan over any current crossover suv.

 

Better yet, a van like pickup ;)

 

[Gojira94]

Maybe not controversial, maybe it is...

 

Ultimate engine swap of the future will be a hydrogen cell conversion for any GM Gen 5, Mopar or Ford small block. GM Gen 5 already has direct injection provisions needed to do the swap. All the power and beautiful noise with near absolute zero emissions. And no BS electric crap and all its impacts on mining Lithium, rare earths, geopolitics around those materials, etc. And I'd go nuts if someone started making DI retrofit heads for SBC Gen 1 & 2 as well, since I've already got 2 of those.

[89 MJ]

11 minutes ago, Gojira94 said:

Maybe not controversial, maybe it is...

 

Ultimate engine swap of the future will be a hydrogen cell conversion for any GM Gen 5, Mopar or Ford small block. GM Gen 5 already has direct injection provisions needed to do the swap. All the power and beautiful noise with near absolute zero emissions. And no BS electric crap and all its impacts on mining Lithium, rare earths, geopolitics around those materials, etc. And I'd go nuts if someone started making DI retrofit heads for SBC Gen 1 & 2 as well, since I've already got 2 of those.

Oh yeah, that will be awesome!

[AnotherOldJeepGuy]

The option to have your vehicle drive itself seems like a controversial option to me.

[watchamakalit]

Not controversial at all, just dumb.  Just take the bus or call and uber. don't but a car if your too lazy to drive. 

[ThatJeepGuy]

On 3/27/2026 at 8:33 PM, watchamakalit said:

Not controversial at all, just dumb.  Just take the bus or call and uber. don't but a car if your too lazy to drive. 

 

We did the tesla experience a few years back for a batch. Party. It was a good time - but the math on "fuel savings" lead to you'd have to drive that Tesla for 20 years exclusively to overcome the cost investment to make those fuel savings worth it - surprise - no one is driving the same purely electric vehicle for 20 years straight. Goes against the current culture behind electric devices - update and upgrade fluently!

[75sv1]

On 3/28/2026 at 9:50 PM, ThatJeepGuy said:

 

We did the tesla experience a few years back for a batch. Party. It was a good time - but the math on "fuel savings" lead to you'd have to drive that Tesla for 20 years exclusively to overcome the cost investment to make those fuel savings worth it - surprise - no one is driving the same purely electric vehicle for 20 years straight. Goes against the current culture behind electric devices - update and upgrade fluently!

How does the 'turn over' rate compare to luxury vehicles? The cost of electrics keep them out of 'normal' buyers reach. I do have a Chevy Volt. When I drive it to work and back, its about $20 a month. When using gas, its about $20 a week.

[ThatJeepGuy]

34 minutes ago, 75sv1 said:

How does the 'turn over' rate compare to luxury vehicles? The cost of electrics keep them out of 'normal' buyers reach. I do have a Chevy Volt. When I drive it to work and back, its about $20 a month. When using gas, its about $20 a week.

Trickle down economics is what comes to mind on the turn over, soo long as both vehicles run and drive - eventually someone not in the higher tiers per say can aquire them and still maintain the gasser- but if the electric is an acomody of finance to afford the maintenance then the e-vehicles won't trickle down as effectively.

 

Honestly question - where are all the E-vehicles from the ~2000s era? Anyone digging them up in car culture Land and reviving them - id argue again its not as fluent a practice

[75sv1]

27 minutes ago, ThatJeepGuy said:

Trickle down economics is what comes to mind on the turn over, soo long as both vehicles run and drive - eventually someone not in the higher tiers per say can aquire them and still maintain the gasser- but if the electric is an acomody of finance to afford the maintenance then the e-vehicles won't trickle down as effectively.

 

Honestly question - where are all the E-vehicles from the ~2000s era? Anyone digging them up in car culture Land and reviving them - id argue again its not as fluent a practice

    There's a Pinto Station wagon in a town near by. Yet, point taken. You don't see many 80s, 90s, 2000s vehicles around. Yet, XJs, TJs and old Pickups are still around. Used to be a few MB Diesels that ran around. Haven't seen them lately. 

    I do own a '15 Volt. It was cheaper to but my Volt with less miles than a Chevy Cruze. The Volt sold for more.   

[JZLAJeep]

Bench seats, rear wheel drive, and manual transmissions are superior to the popular current preferences. I suspect those aren't all controversial on this forum though.

 

To make the case for bench seats, I have a daughter that is handicapped and gets grabby with anyone sitting next to her. So three across the back (sometimes even two across the back) just doesn't work when she's in the vehicle. We frequently travel with 5 in the vehicle and end up needing the three rows in our Expedition to give her enough space. If vehicles had a front bench (like in the 70s & 80s) then we could put three across the front bench and two in the back. We have a Crown Vic that has a split front bench, but the split makes the center seat awkward.

 

Our personal situation aside, I'm not particularly a fan of the boxed in feeling of new cars with a large console isolating the driver and passenger to their own box. I like the wide open feel of the bench seat.

[pizzaman09]

10 hours ago, JZLAJeep said:

Bench seats, rear wheel drive, and manual transmissions are superior to the popular current preferences. I suspect those aren't all controversial on this forum though.

 

To make the case for bench seats, I have a daughter that is handicapped and gets grabby with anyone sitting next to her. So three across the back (sometimes even two across the back) just doesn't work when she's in the vehicle. We frequently travel with 5 in the vehicle and end up needing the three rows in our Expedition to give her enough space. If vehicles had a front bench (like in the 70s & 80s) then we could put three across the front bench and two in the back. We have a Crown Vic that has a split front bench, but the split makes the center seat awkward.

 

Our personal situation aside, I'm not particularly a fan of the boxed in feeling of new cars with a large console isolating the driver and passenger to their own box. I like the wide open feel of the bench seat.

I had an Oldsmobile Eighty Eight, 1999 the final model year with a front bench.  It was phenomenal.  With it being FWD, the floor was nearly flat and thus have center seat passengers plenty of room.  It was a true 6 seat car and we used it that way plenty of times.

[derf]

31 minutes ago, pizzaman09 said:

I had an Oldsmobile Eighty Eight, 1999 the final model year with a front bench.  It was phenomenal.  With it being FWD, the floor was nearly flat and thus have center seat passengers plenty of room.  It was a true 6 seat car and we used it that way plenty of times.

Growing up, we had a '78 Ninety-Eight, an '80 Ninety-Eight, and a '90 Eighty-Eight.  They were decent cars in the day.

 

Well, I take that back.  The '78 had the 350 diesel and it was a POS.  But we got 25 MPG.  When it was running.

[DirtyComanche]

15 hours ago, ThatJeepGuy said:

Trickle down economics is what comes to mind on the turn over, soo long as both vehicles run and drive - eventually someone not in the higher tiers per say can aquire them and still maintain the gasser- but if the electric is an acomody of finance to afford the maintenance then the e-vehicles won't trickle down as effectively.

 

Honestly question - where are all the E-vehicles from the ~2000s era? Anyone digging them up in car culture Land and reviving them - id argue again its not as fluent a practice

 

The EVs haven't reached enough market share for the "trickle down" (not a bad way to put it) to generally work out yet.  There's other barriers, wrecks are often damaged more by overzealous firefighters or wreckers, insurance companies often demand some parts go to scrap instead of resale by recyclers, there is barriers in programming and modules that are unobtanium or suffer 100% failure rates, there is difficult rules on shipping used parts, etc, etc.

 

That said there is something of a community for old/nostalgic EVs and/or swaps of older components.  Teslas have by far the best past end of life/life extension support just because there was so many and they came with enough problems, along with that enthusiasts fixed a lot of things unofficially.  A lot of the other options are just a bit too crappy for them to be mainstream, so it's pretty niche.  Their first car, the Roadster, is highly sought after, and repairs for the battery modules/BCM/inverter/etc are well documented and available as commercial services.  Nissan Leaf swaps into other stuff are somewhat common, lots of support for doing it easily.  Currently someone found a GM EV1 and is in the process of restoring it with help from GM (interesting project but the YouTube videos they make are basically unwatchable due to not being edited down).  There's a fairly robust community for the electric S10s they sold around the same time as the EV1, with guys upgrading the batteries and other components to make them actually drivable.  There is people out there remanufacturing/repairing battery packs for a lot of stuff, but some things are just too weird to be overly feasible.  It is like anything else and if your budget is large you can do anything; like guys convincing themselves that their LS swap will save them money by increased fuel economy and then buying a built engine that makes 600HP on pump gas, which the payoff on will be never but I fully support them doing it.

 

At this point you can get a used Tesla Model 3 for cheap enough and keep it running with used parts that the math does work, on a beater versus beater type of equation.  At least if you live in the contiguous United States and assuming you're charging it at home too.  For me here, eh, maybe not so much.

[ThatJeepGuy]

5 hours ago, DirtyComanche said:

" ~ "

 

At this point you can get a used Tesla Model 3 for cheap enough and keep it running with used parts that the math does work, on a beater versus beater type of equation.  At least if you live in the contiguous United States and assuming you're charging it at home too.  For me here, eh, maybe not so much.

 Forgive me I steam rolled most of the quote. All very good points. I've followed rich rebuilds for a while during his Tesla LS swap and the Tesla repairs they were doing on the cheap - very much like what you brought up. It was interesting to see the "hack" but more soo practical quick repairs. 

 

I say still though - apples to apples, the EVs have a long way to go if they ever upset the naturalization of gas/oil vehicles, we got deep roots. Scenes from I Robot and Demolition Man comes to mind on the upset of gas/oil. "You know gas explodes on impact right!?" Ha!

[89 MJ]

On 3/9/2026 at 6:07 PM, derf said:

I definitely like the 3.0 EcoDiesel in my Wrangler.

 

And, while the 4.0 is a couple of generations old at this point and it needed a complete overhaul, it is way better than the 3.8 and 3.6.  Want to talk about no low end torque.  You'd call the 4.0 a beast after driving those engines.

I was just thinking about this the other day. My parents have a JKU Sahara with 3.21 gears and the 5 speed auto transmission. Even when it was on stock tires, it was a dog. I recently drove a 2 door JL with the 3.45 gears and the 8 speed and I have to say, I am very impressed. That 8 speed makes up for the lack of torque very well. That said, the 3.45 gears and the lighter weight Jeep are also important factors here. 

[derf]

15 minutes ago, 89 MJ said:

I was just thinking about this the other day. My parents have a JKU Sahara with 3.21 gears and the 5 speed auto transmission. Even when it was on stock tires, it was a dog. I recently drove a 2 door JL with the 3.45 gears and the 8 speed and I have to say, I am very impressed. That 8 speed makes up for the lack of torque very well. That said, the 3.45 gears and the lighter weight Jeep are also important factors here. 

Yeah, the deeper first gear of the transmission, along with a torque converter stall speed matched to the engine, really makes a difference in the JL.

[75sv1]

'Currently someone found a GM EV1 and is in the process of restoring it with help from GM'. I think they found it in a parking garage in the Carolinas.  Technically, GM leased the EV1's. So, GM took them back and probably crushed them. Not sure of the legal aspect of the one acquired. Probably since it was past 7 years, or such, sold as an abandoned vehicle. 

  On the gearing and manual trans. Most of them 1st gear was just a bump gear. Just got you going. Sort of the save the clutch from people who didn't know how to shift a manual trans. 

[dasbulliwagen]

On 5/6/2026 at 7:48 AM, 75sv1 said:

'Currently someone found a GM EV1 and is in the process of restoring it with help from GM'. I think they found it in a parking garage in the Carolinas.  Technically, GM leased the EV1's. So, GM took them back and probably crushed them. Not sure of the legal aspect of the one acquired. Probably since it was past 7 years, or such, sold as an abandoned vehicle. 

  On the gearing and manual trans. Most of them 1st gear was just a bump gear. Just got you going. Sort of the save the clutch from people who didn't know how to shift a manual trans. 

If I remember correctly, that EV1 was donated to a college, who abandoned it, at which point it was towed, and the tow company put a mechanics lean on it and was able to get a title for it through that process. I don't think GM could legally do anything at that point. The tow company sold it for around $100,000 if I remember correctly. There are one or two different YouTube channels that are covering it's restoration, including The Questionable Garage. 

[pizzaman09]

On 3/30/2026 at 8:29 AM, 75sv1 said:

    There's a Pinto Station wagon in a town near by. Yet, point taken. You don't see many 80s, 90s, 2000s vehicles around. Yet, XJs, TJs and old Pickups are still around. Used to be a few MB Diesels that ran around. Haven't seen them lately. 

    I do own a '15 Volt. It was cheaper to but my Volt with less miles than a Chevy Cruze. The Volt sold for more.   

I've come to the conclusion that the older vehicles are just in poorer areas.  I live near many depressed areas, there are plenty of 90s and 00s vehicles around that you'd never see in a more populated or higher income area.  Go to central PA or southern tier NY, there's plenty of Buick Centuries and 90s Ford Explorers just being used as old daily drivers still.

[75sv1]

9 hours ago, pizzaman09 said:

I've come to the conclusion that the older vehicles are just in poorer areas.  I live near many depressed areas, there are plenty of 90s and 00s vehicles around that you'd never see in a more populated or higher income area.  Go to central PA or southern tier NY, there's plenty of Buick Centuries and 90s Ford Explorers just being used as old daily drivers still.

For some reason, Ford Explores have their following. Also, Ford rangers and Chevy S-10s.