When did cars stop being repairable?

[ruralandalone]

As I sit  here, my 2011 volvo is in a transmission shop getting a new bearing in the differential.   This involves removing the rear subframe.    The parts are stupid expensive, and this job is going to cost me  THOUSANDS.  All of the fasteners to the aluminium frame have completely corroded.  In talking to my transmission guy, he tells me that the differential (made by Ford) is not meant to be repaired, as the parts are welded together.

I have been thinking long and hard on this, and I am seriously considering  buying another older car and keeping it as my daily driver.   For a LONG  time.  I find the new cars, with their touch screen technology, actually dangerous to drive.  And the cars certainly do not seem to be made to last.

So I am looking for input from the group, in hopes of learning from others' experience.

 

1) When did cars stop being relatively repairable?

 2) What brands of car have good parts availability?

3) If you were going to buy a "keeper" and use it year round, what would you get?  (Canadian winters, hot summers)

   

 

 

[Pete M]

for a year-round driver that sees salt?  corrosion is going to be your biggest enemy and that is a hard one to defeat.  

[BeaterComanche86]

I’m gonna probably get flamed for this but from my experience a older civic is the way to go. Very easy to work on and parts are readily available and cheap. I run snow tires in the winter and have no issues with a few inches of snow being it’s light enough to basically float on top. Canadian winters are worse than Maryland but I bet your road crews are better at keeping roads clear compared to were I live. 

[ruralandalone]

I wonder if a larger honda would fit the bill.  And what would you think of as "older"?  I'm not arguing, mind.  You may be on the right track

[Knucklehead97]

My 97 Sentra is a beast. 210k on the clock and only has needed a wheel bearing an an upper timing chain tensioner (both VERY easy to fix) it has the 1.6 DOHC engine that is known for how reliable it is... The car is super junky looking and I get made fun of at work for it but I love that I don't have a car payment and will be driving this thing for 10 more years at least. I paid 1600$ for the car and have put about 60k on the clock. Heat and air work perfect. Sentras stopped being reliable after '99 when they stopped using the 1.6 (if I remember correctly.)

[mjeff87]

2 hours ago, ruralandalone said:

 I find the new cars, with their touch screen technology, actually dangerous to drive. 

   

 

 

 

Sooo much this.  We just bought my wife a new (2019) Forrester, to replace her 2017 Forrester.  I damn near killed us both in it yesterday driving to the supermarket, trying to turn down the radio.  There's so many gee-gaws on it, lights flashing and things beeping I'm afraid to drive it.  I know it's all safety mandated new crap (adaptive cruise, lane assist, side and rear collision warning, etc. etc.) but holy hell it's confusing.  You can disable most of them, but you have to do that each time you start it.

 

All that said, though, it is a really nice vehicle for the price point.  Very comfortable, very little cabin noise (even compared to her "old" 2017 model), and it scoots.  It's got some kind of gizmo selector "X-mode" thing for when 4WD is engaged, that's supposed to provide different types of traction depending on what you're stuck in/driving through, but we won't get to test that anytime soon, hopefully.  Are there a bunch of Subbies running around up North?  They seem to be the perfect vehicle here in my part of the US, we get snow but probably not nearly as much as you guys do.  Plus the AWD/4WD is completely automatic, which is perfect for my wife.  No buttons, levers, etc. to worry about engaging.

 

I've come to realize that if/when I ever stop driving Jeeps, it will be for a Subaru.

 

 

[dasbulliwagen]

In my opinion, as a professional mechanic, the ability to work on any vehicle depends entirely upon your skill level (Either learned or Natural) in the area and if you have the proper tools to even do the job. Many older vehicles are much simpler and thus the skills and tools to work on them are lower. I say this with one exception.... Carburators. Ive never had good luck tuning them properly. So the question is entirely subjective. 

[Pete M]

 cars definitely stopped being fun to work on when the computers started talking to each other and only the Dealership has the means to hash out any disagreements between them.    

[schardein]

My personal opinion is a Jeep Cherokee XJ makes a good daily driver.  They are inexpensive, easy to work on, easy to get parts for, come standard with a 4.0 engine that has enough power for light towing, and most are 4wd for places where that is a good idea for dependable year round transportation.  

 

Downside is the fuel mileage isn't that great, around 16-20 mpg depending on year, condition, options and modifications.  And they have relatively high cabin noise on the highway.

[Pete M]

I really liked my 97 Chrysler minivan with the 3.3L engine (the 3.8 could be a problem child).  owned since new and we put 240k on it and it was still running strong when I gave it to a friend in need.  The seats were super comfy and I could fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood and a couch in the back (although this was before the fold-in-the-floor seating).  damn I miss that thing.  

 

[ruralandalone]

Looks like I opened a can of worms here..   :)

So WHEN did the cars start only talk to computers?   Lets use that as an end point, and limit discussion to cars before that date.

Yes, what jobs you can do is a function of skill, but when it costs $4000 CDN to change a diff bearing the design is very flawed (IMO)

 

Civic.  Too small for my needs.

Subaru.  available, I've had them.   They are ok, but I have never tried to work on them.

XJ.  Possible, and since I have an MJ, not totally weird.  IF I could find one with a decent body and frame.... 

[Smokeyyank]

I'd say anything after 07 is when it really started to become the issue of car manufactures making vehicles harder to work on for the average Joe who can turn a wrench on the weekend. Down turn in economy and the need to create and retain jobs along with cutting cost was a major issue. Manufactures have made it to where you either needs specialty tools to do the work or some much computer aided diagnostic equipment it makes it so ineffective cost wise to DIY compared to taking it to the dealer/shop. It's the reason I sought out a WJ. For me it was one of the last "Jeeps" made. 

When it comes to parts, honestly BMW is probably one of the better ones from my experience, (other than older jeep and GM) most everything is still made in Germany, parts aren't that expensive compared to most american ones but they are labor intensive to work on and use too much plastic. Japenese cars I think have the highest cost of parts, true you don't replace them as often but when you do it's a pain and not cheap. I'd avoid anything ford like the plauge, same with VW. GM has their ups and downs. 

If I need a good daily that will see snow, I'd go XJ hands down. If I was looking for a car an old E30 or E36 is an awesome choice IMHO. Not only a blast to drive but easy to work on and DIY friendly. Yes, they are going to need some love but truthfully the best car I ever worked on was my old e30. Picked it up cheap,  fixed it up and loved to drive it. There's a reason the model coined the term "ultimate driving machine".  Civics are just too bland for me. Yeah they work but you lose part of your soul.....

[NHMJXJ]

Cash for clunkers was the kiss of death. 

[Pete M]

I've learned that my 06 Liberty now needs to hit a dealership if I ever want the ABS to work again.  While trying to diagnose the issue I was going to slap a different ABS module in, but then found that I can't fully remove the old without removing bits on the engine.  so I said screw it and plugged the old one back in.  But that was enough.  I severed the tie, even for just a moment.  now I need the dealership to tell the computer to calm down and that the ABS module is ok for this application.  Fortunately I no longer want the ABS/tractioncontrol to work.  I like it better this way in the snow.  

[Pete M]

I offer up a cutoff of sentry key (or whatever it's called) introduction.  when vehicles had to have that fob nearby in order to start.  screw that crap.  that's way too much computerizing for me in the hypothetical post apocalyptic wasteland. 

[BeaterComanche86]

3 hours ago, ruralandalone said:

I wonder if a larger honda would fit the bill.  And what would you think of as "older"?  I'm not arguing, mind.  You may be on the right track

Any 90’s Honda would probably do. You may be able to find an awd I civic or accord. good mpg, reliable, and a huge aftermarket, all wins in my book

 I didn’t see your previous post about civics being to small but the passport or even a crv may work for you. I can’t vouch for either since I’ve never owned one but at least the engine will be reliable.

[13 Legion]

2 hours ago, BeaterComanche86 said:

 

I’m gonna probably get flamed for this but from my experience a older civic is the way to go

 

Second. I had an 05 Civic. Purchased used put 100,000 on it until my daughter got hit in it. Insurance offer was legit. I coulda bought it back with a rebuilt title but I let it go. Someone at the body shop bought it. Next I bought a used 99 Accord 6 cylinder. Put well over 130,000 until the front end gave out on the expressway at 236,000 on the odometer. I now recently bought an 06 Civic with 80,000 miles on it. My cars are for work. My jobs are usually 40-50 miles away. I drive them on the job site and sometimes we’ll lets just say it’s rough terrain. I look at my cars for what they are... disposable. I drive them into the ground then get another one. Cars are made now so you almost have to bring them to shop or dealer to repair. The days of lifting the hood on a 72 Cutlass and knowing exactly what you had to do in order to repair are over. For that matter how many people legit change even your own oil? Not on your Jeep, on your other vehicles? I dare say the vast majority go to a Jiffy Lube. There’s still some purists out there no doubt, but most just take it in. I mean I remember when the Lumina came out you had to loosen the motor mounts to rock and change the back spark plugs. That’s just absolutely ridiculous. 

[RustyRodder]

I stand by a Honda- My go-to is an Accord.  They don't give up much mpg over a civic, but way more room, comfort, and features.  Mine with snow tires never had a problem with upstate NY winters.  Currently have a 2014, before that was a 2003, and before that a 94.  love the 2014- 280hp and I get 36 on the highway.  Otherwise, a CR-V wouldnt be a bad choice. Passport is also good, but its the same as a Isuzu Rodeo- and the 98-02 models had a massive recall due to rust issues underneath. 

[mjeff87]

I don't touch my wife's cars....mostly they are still under some kind of warranty or she bought them with some kind of discounted maintenance package.  I mistakenly thought I could do a plug change one day on one of her Sub's (boxer engine).  After lifting the hood, studying the situation for a good 10 minutes and then figuring how I could *just* get a socket wrench on one of the plugs, I folded like a cheap tent.  Put it all back together, gave the new plugs to my wife and told her to go get them changed somewhere.  I wasn't gonna be responsible for snapping a plug off inside the head and then having to figure out how to fix that.

 

But I will say they do make it super easy to do an oil change on.  The filter sits right on the top front of the engine, inverted, inside a little catch basin.  It's a design that I wish ANY other manufacturer would take notice of (like DMC when they designed the filter location on the front of the 3.7 in my KJ).  Plus the drain plug on the pan is very easy to get to and doesn't rain down oil all over the suspension.

 

The Focus I (briefly) owned I could wrench on all day long.  Of course, it was a 2003.  It did have a chipped key, though

[87MJTIM]

We have an '05 CR-V.  Original owners.  335,000 miles on the clock.  5 spd manual.  I believe '06 was the last year for manuals in the CR-V.

 

I would highly recommend a Honda (at least a CR-V).

[Pete M]

when it comes to #1 from the OP, keep in mind that reliability isn't the same thing as repair-ability and parts support. 

 

I offer up a new threshold: whatever year where I stopped being able to swap in a junkyard computer by myself. you know, when they became self-aware.  

[ruralandalone]

Looks like the honda passport had some serious rust issues.  Not a good sign. The BMW's might be a goer.  Especially if I could find a wagon....

[JMO413]

5 hours ago, Pete M said:

when it comes to #1 from the OP, keep in mind that reliability isn't the same thing as repair-ability and parts support. 

 

I offer up a new threshold: whatever year where I stopped being able to swap in a junkyard computer by myself. you know, when they became self-aware.  

And you would be surprised what the 2008-2009 fiasco did to the parts vendors. Discontinued is now a far to common term. 

After all that being said XJ or WJ.

[ruralandalone]

A cursory look suggests to me that the drive train on the wj is quite complicated.....

[Jeep Driver]

11 hours ago, dasbulliwagen said:

In my opinion, as a professional mechanic, the ability to work on any vehicle depends entirely upon your skill level (Either learned or Natural) in the area and if you have the proper tools to even do the job

Echo.