WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 So I’ve got a locked up 4.0 that was freshly rebuilt, 5 years ago then left with open injector holes. (Ghosty in the member project section for more details) I have the head off and the rotating assembly is stuck. It’s been soaking with a bunch of combinations of penetrating fluid for about 2 weeks now. ATF and acetone for 4-5 days now. I'm trying to get it to move with the harmonic balancer bolt and a 1/2” breaker bar. No luck. I'm afraid of stripping or breaking the bolt. I am getting little shavings off the big concave washer behind the bolt now and have not experienced that before while tightening all other harmonic balancer bolts in the past. So, how hard do you guys crank on this bolt? I’ve stuck a wrench on the end of the breaker bar now and have about 3 feet of leverage. I'm probably 250-275 lbs so I feel that I’m more than capable of stripping or breaking the bolt. Any input is appreciated Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Just a thought here, make sure that distributor isn't locked up on the cam gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 are you doing a rocking motion or just one way? have you tried marvel mystery yet? hammer on the pistons with a rubber mallet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drahcir495 Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Marvelous mystery oil helped free up a driveshaft that was left outside for years. Yep, I would be worried about shearing the head off the bolt too with that much force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Ωhm said: Just a thought here, make sure that distributor isn't locked up on the cam gear. Wow. It won’t come out by hand. Might be onto something here! Working on it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 35 minutes ago, jdog said: are you doing a rocking motion or just one way? have you tried marvel mystery yet? hammer on the pistons with a rubber mallet? So far I have only been doing it one way, the bolt was loosening trying to go back the other way. I have not tried Marvel yet. I have hit the top of the pistons with a rubber mallet yes, I placed the rubber on the piston then struck the top of the rubber mallet with a 3lb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 If it's the distributor, you could try taking off the timing chain and seeing if the rotating assembly or the camshaft is the issue. It looks way too clean to be rings. Is the sump full of liquid to the pint that the bottom end is basically hydro locked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Ωhm said: Just a thought here, make sure that distributor isn't locked up on the cam gear. The distributor would not come out by hand! It took some tapping with the rubber mallet to get it loose, unfortunately the rotating assembly is still locked up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 1 minute ago, pizzaman09 said: If it's the distributor, you could try taking off the timing chain and seeing if the rotating assembly or the camshaft is the issue. It looks way too clean to be rings. Is the sump full of liquid to the pint that the bottom end is basically hydro locked? This was exactly how I found it when the head came off. I’ve drained the oil as well. No moisture was in the new oil that came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Ok, have you also worked on the sump then, trying to fill it will some of the magic juices? Is this a manual? Could the clutch be seized and the transmission in gear? Could the starter be jammed against the ring gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 53 minutes ago, jdog said: are you doing a rocking motion or just one way? have you tried marvel mystery yet? hammer on the pistons with a rubber mallet? I just tried a violent back and forth on the bolt with the breaker bar trying to send shock into the rotating assembly, no luck, I was leaning weight on the breaker bar while hitting the top of the pistons with a rubber mallet. Set the mallet on the piston then hit it with a 3lb, no luck yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 24, 2023 Author Share Posted December 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, pizzaman09 said: Ok, have you also worked on the sump then, trying to fill it will some of the magic juices? Is this a manual? Could the clutch be seized and the transmission in gear? Could the starter be jammed against the ring gear? I have not tried to fill the pan with anything other than some 15-40 Delo. I drained out the oil that came in the engine to verify it wasn’t water, then decided to fill it back up with 15-40 to avoid any further corrosion. Verified the transmission is in neutral, yes. Starter is removed at the moment. The back wheels off the ground, the Transmission output shaft spins freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchamakalit Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 There is a special tool for turning the motor via the flywheel teeth. They are much stronger than the balancer bolt and will allow for rotation in both directions. Other than that I would say pull the pan and see what's holding it. https://a.co/d/0kNdATC I agree it looks way too clean for stuck rings. I'd lean towards an issue in the lower end. Edit: link added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 2 hours ago, watchamakalit said: There is a special tool for turning the motor via the flywheel teeth. They are much stronger than the balancer bolt and will allow for rotation in both directions. Other than that I would say pull the pan and see what's holding it. https://a.co/d/0kNdATC I agree it looks way too clean for stuck rings. I'd lean towards an issue in the lower end. Edit: link added Never knew that tool existed! Cool, thank you. I’m thinking it’s about time for the pan to come off as well. I have not tried the old pry bar on the flywheel yet either. Might be worth a shot. Especially if I could find someone to crank on the bolt as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchamakalit Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 6 hours ago, WranglerMangler said: Never knew that tool existed! Cool, thank you. I’m thinking it’s about time for the pan to come off as well. I have not tried the old pry bar on the flywheel yet either. Might be worth a shot. Especially if I could find someone to crank on the bolt as well! just be careful cranking on the balancer bolt. seeing the shavings off the washer would be enough to scare me. I have been involved with stripped threads in a crankshaft before. Its a situation you want to avoid if at all possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Time, not brute strength. Acetone, diesel fuel, ATF and Marvel Mystery Oil. All mixed together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle_SX4 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I would take off the oil pan. It is possible that whoever rebuilt the engine never checked clearances on the bearings and it has been locked up since the rebuild and that's the reason it has sat for 5 years. The oil pan is super easy to drop on these trucks just support the frame and let the suspension drop out of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 super easy ... unless the previous owner of your truck drove over something hard enough to bend the trans crossmember and tweak the exhaust towards the pan. but I digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 8 hours ago, watchamakalit said: just be careful cranking on the balancer bolt. seeing the shavings off the washer would be enough to scare me. I have been involved with stripped threads in a crankshaft before. Its a situation you want to avoid if at all possible. Yes sir! I agree. I have no personal experience with that and really don’t want any! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 6 hours ago, cruiser54 said: Time, not brute strength. Acetone, diesel fuel, ATF and Marvel Mystery Oil. All mixed together. I’ll stop and get some Diesel and Marvel. Thank you Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 4 hours ago, Eagle_SX4 said: I would take off the oil pan. It is possible that whoever rebuilt the engine never checked clearances on the bearings and it has been locked up since the rebuild and that's the reason it has sat for 5 years. The oil pan is super easy to drop on these trucks just support the frame and let the suspension drop out of the way. Yes, I agree. Really the only reason I haven’t removed the pan yet is because it’s super rainy out and I don’t want her sitting out with the pan off. I did just get a pop up car port so that will be changing soon! I’ll take the pan off tomorrow or the next day! P/O said the engine did run for a few seconds before catching on fire, taken with a grain of salt from a random guy off the internet, but everything else he had told me has been true so far. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 3 hours ago, Pete M said: super easy ... unless the previous owner of your truck drove over something hard enough to bend the trans crossmember and tweak the exhaust towards the pan. but I digress... Lol. Sounds like a fun one! I’ve had off my fair share of 4.0 pans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 I may suggest you preemptively replace your balancer bolt with a new grade 8 bolt just because of how much you've torqued on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WranglerMangler Posted December 26, 2023 Author Share Posted December 26, 2023 6 hours ago, pizzaman09 said: I may suggest you preemptively replace your balancer bolt with a new grade 8 bolt just because of how much you've torqued on it. Yes sir. I will do it! Better safe than sorry. Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gojira94 Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 You might consider using the plate for a crank hub puller as your leverage point instead of the crank bolt. 3 bolts to share the load and leave the crank bolt out of the equation. And a replacement crank bolt will need to be 10.9 strength. Almost nobody has ARP crank bolts as a stock item but you can get one shipped pretty quick. Install it once all is freed up. Pull the old one out now if you can, or make sure it's broke loose and leave it in, backed out about 1/4 turn. That way if you cause any more damage to the head it'll come out by hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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