What mods add value?

[NHMJXJ]

There are a number of replies to a thread in the classifieds (the low mile '91) that prompt the question; What mods add value? 

 

Someone mentions interior mods (but wasn't specific) and another wrote that painting a truck with bed liner would be a deal breaker.

 

I personally agree wholeheartedly with the latter.    This also stems from seeing more trucks listed in the $10K range.  

[Jeep Driver]

Opinion, everyone has one, don't they?

 

If ever there were a Rule- It's your truck, do as you please. 

 

I'll do as I please with mine, I'm not asking you to like it, I'm also not asking you to buy it. 

 

 

I'm opinionated, no doubt about that, however-

From from my POV, there aren't too many here who should be judging the work of others. And I mean that, sincerely. 

 

Whatever you do, don't expect your money back out of it. 

 

I'll nit pick, I loathe words like 'mods', it's what kids do to bicycles. 

 

 

 

[tugboat95]

Why would lining a bed decrease value? I'm planning on doing that to mine. It has a factory comanche bedliner in it and I hate those. They rub and scratch the underlying paint. Trap water and rust out beds. Everything is subjective but in my area rhino or linex coatings are a plus and selling points.

 

But I agree I'll never get my money back. But I never treat vehicles as investments. I use them, get what can for them and buy another.

 

89 Comanche

Eliminator

2wd

4.0L

5 speed PukeGoat

Factory Original

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeep Driver]

11 minutes ago, tugboat95 said:

Why would lining a bed decrease value? I'm planning on doing that to mine. It has a factory comanche bedliner in it and I hate those. They rub and scratch the underlying paint. Trap water and rust out beds. Everything is subjective but in my area rhino or linex coatings are a plus and selling points.

 

But I agree I'll never get my money back. But I never treat vehicles as investments. I use them, get what can for them and buy another.

 

89 Comanche

Eliminator

2wd

4.0L

5 speed PukeGoat

Factory Original

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tugboat95]

 
 

Why would somebody do that?? I thought you were just talking lining the bed.

That being said I know two people that did their wranglers like that for serious offroading. Just hose out the mud, rocks, etc with a garden hose. Makes cleanup easier.

89 Comanche
Eliminator
2wd
4.0L
5 speed PukeGoat
Factory Original

[Minuit]

Here's my take. It's not so much WHAT has been done, as HOW it has been done. There's no way you could possibly answer the first question, because every single person you ask is going to have a different answer. Some people are strict purists, some people like big lifts and big tires and will value a truck accordingly. At this point in my automotive life, I don't think I would buy another Jeep that has been messed with by someone else. That's not because I think all mods are bad, but there is much more to doing a modification correctly than just getting it on the truck. Generally speaking - it's much easier to do something that brings the value down.

 

I do not trust the general public to modify a vehicle correctly, especially anything that has to do with steering geometry or electrical work. I've seen way too many hackjobs and way too many things that only look nice on the surface. Here on CC we're insulated from that a little bit, because people who do garbage work generally won't put in the time to show it off on a forum full of people who actually care about the preservation of these trucks, but crap work is out there and way, way more common than it should be.

 

I respect attention to detail. There are certain things you can look at on a modified vehicle to see if there was care taken with the work done. Famous example - if I see a repainted truck that has the Comanche fender badges in the wrong place - why should I think the painter did a good job if they couldn't even be bothered to put the badges in the right place? Anyone who knows how to read a tape measure can find the exact position of that badge on the fender in five minutes. Anyone who doesn't have enough respect for the customer or vehicle to do that little bit of finish work correctly has no business painting a vehicle.

 

Electrical work - I expect to see quality connectors appropriate for the conditions. I do not ever want to see wire nuts, insulated non-heatshrink crimp connectors, or vampire splices. I expect to see relays when appropriate, connected with appropriate relay sockets and NOT just quick-connect terminals that can be mixed up easily. I do NOT want to see un-loomed wires snaking across the engine bay. I do not want to see different circuits using the same wire color. I expect all wires to be appropriately sized. If there are multiple new circuits, I expect to see an auxiliary fuse block as close to the circuit origin as possible with fuses sized appropriately for the wire gauges being used in the circuit. I expect all added on wiring to be removable. I don't want to see a bunch of stuff hanging off of the battery - military style battery terminals are great for making a system with a lot of additions look good and most of these trucks need new ones at this point anyway. I hate all wire splices, but I hate properly soldered ones slightly less. All splices should be done in a part of the harness that does not bend, especially if the connection is soldered. Solder creates a stiff point in the wire that will end up breaking if it is allowed to move with any regularity. Solder splices should be roughly the same size as the wire including insulation. Lumps in the solder should be kept to a minimum, which should not be a problem if the wire is properly heated and flux is used. Additional flux should be used and the excess cleaned up. Crimp connections are totally fine if proper tooling is used, and for parallel-type connections I prefer crimp connectors.

 

Most aftermarket audio system work makes my blood boil. A lot of people don't want to keep the factory components, and that's fine. What is not fine is cutting up factory harnesses, wiring speakers with the wrong polarity, etc. It's a personal thing, but I really don't like aftermarket radio installs that have the radio protruding from the dash.

 

Since you asked for a list, here's a few of mine in no particular order:

 

ADD VALUE:

- Headlight harnesses

- Non sealed beam headlights (halogen or quality LED)

- A high level of options, even if the truck might not have had them from the factory.

- Signs that the truck has been maintained properly over its life.

- Some electrical stuff, if I can tell that it's been done properly.

 

NEUTRAL VALUE ("meh"):

- A well done aftermarket radio install, which is a small percentage of aftermarket radio installs. If I were to buy a truck with one, I'd probably switch it out with one of my factory ones out of preference.

- 97+ mirrors. What they gain in visibility they lose in looks.

 

LOWER VALUE:

- A repaint in a factory color if I can tell it's a repaint. If I can tell it's a repaint without being told, it's not good enough for me. Badges in the wrong place are the #1 alarm bell.

- Aftermarket additions like remote starts and alarm systems. I get why you would want them, but they are too invasive to the factory wiring for me.

- 99.5% of aftermarket audio work.

- Trashy looking or knock-off LED headlights with terrible optics. Sadly these are the majority.

- Most uses of spray on or roll on bedliner.

- Most things you can buy at Autozone.

- Non-factory wheels.

- Oversized wheels. Sometimes 16s look good, but most 17s are too much. Exception: I really like the 2000-2001 Icon wheels and may end up with a set when I need tires next.

- 97+ front clip. I just like the old one better.

[strictlyxjs]

I think i read online somewhere that hypothetically if you buy a brand new truck and have the bed sprayed with genuine line-x bedliner it actually increases the value but ita only with line-x not some crappy knock off. This is going buy NADA value i guess.

[89 MJ]

5 hours ago, tugboat95 said:

Why would lining a bed decrease value? I'm planning on doing that to mine. It has a factory comanche bedliner in it and I hate those. They rub and scratch the underlying paint. Trap water and rust out beds. Everything is subjective but in my area rhino or linex coatings are a plus and selling points.

 

But I agree I'll never get my money back. But I never treat vehicles as investments. I use them, get what can for them and buy another.

 

89 Comanche

Eliminator

2wd

4.0L

5 speed PukeGoat

Factory Original

 

 

 

 

 

They are talking about putting Bedliner on the whole truck. 

[Eagle]

A mod that one prospective buyer thinks is worth money is a mod that some other buyer will view as a deal breaker.

 

My position is that almost any mod that isn't easily reversible reduces value, and mods such as lifts and/or cutting sheet metal are absolute deal breakers. Things that I would not reject outright include replacing the "station wagon" steering wheel in the base models with a 3-spoke wheel; replacing the idiot light gauge cluster with an all-gauges cluster or the "3/4" type (no tach, although I prefer the tach); Jeep alloy rims in place of factory steel wheels.

 

My red '88 Comanche had a 4" Trailmaster lift on it when I bought it. The front and rear sheet metal had been cut. Almost immediately after putting it on the road I got a ticket because the tires extended beyond the sheet metal, so I had to buy new front fenders. I still haven't figured out a way to install the factory flares on the rear, since the previous owner crudely chopped off the mounting flanges. I paid $500 for the truck, I've spent two or three times that much UNdoing much of what the idiot previous owner did, and the only difference you can see on the outside is that the lift is gone (and the front fenders now have mounting flanges for the flares).

 

As Minuit posted (above), too many mods are done poorly, and I'm at a point in life that I no longer get any enjoyment out of undoing other people's butchery. I have high standards of engineering and workmanship, and I don't trust anyone to perform or install mods to my standards (even if the mod is something I might want to do -- which is unlikely).

 

[DesertRat1991]

It wasn't until I met Jeepers that I learned there were "car guys" out there that expected you to give away mods for free. 

 

If you put a turbo kit, triple adjustable coilovers and a $3,000 set of wheels on an import, the value goes up.  But if you lift, stroke and axle swap a Jeep the online community says "Sorry, you never get back what you put in." 

 

IMO, those kind of things should add value but the Jeep community perpetuates the contrary notion. 

 

Personally, I will part my truck out down to the uniframe before I GIVE away mods to some Bubba for free.

[Pete M]

does the value go up beyond the price of the car + the parts still new in boxes?  Used parts are used parts.    and Jeep parts tend to be used and abused.  nature of the beast and all that I guess.

 

there most definitely is a portion of the Jeeping community that values a Jeep that is already "built" (and I leave that term up to interpretation).  If there wasn't than I wouldn't see so many "built" wranglers being sold through dealerships. 

 

[Jeep Driver]

20 minutes ago, Pete M said:

"built" wranglers being sold through dealerships. 

We were at the Nissan dealer yesterday, wife's first service. 

 

Titan on showroom floor-

Base price, $50K. 

Dealer installed off road package, final price $71K. 

 

People believe that -dealer installed- or -factory authorized aftermarket- is similar to, or equal to, or retains value as, Factory. 

 

 

 

Two things to consider- 

 

Three types of people- 

Capable and knowledgeable and talented. 

Incapable, ignorant, should never touch a wrench. 

Hacks. 

 

Unfortunately too many Jeep owners are Hacks.  

 

 

Also, the lazy with money............they will pay for the bolt-on BS...................Wrangler owners from dealers you see so much of. 

[JMO413]

25 minutes ago, Pete M said:

If there wasn't than I wouldn't see so many "built" wranglers being sold through dealerships. 

 

This is a double edged sword. If it's still new and you install the Mopar lift kit before it's sold the lift has the 3/36 warranty. It's has to be the Mopar lift no aftermarket. 

That's where all these crates are coming from.

The flip side is an aftermarket lift actually voids the warranty if you find a picky dealership. I figure most people who but s built Jeep buy it beacuse they are not capable of doing it. IMHO

[Pete M]

ok, that was a somewhat poor example because of warranties.  There are still a lot of guys that buy used "built" rigs because they already "look cool".    

 

It's just not me.  Nothing I've ever bought was seriously modded in any way (unless you count the whole-sale gutting of a couple of the MJs). 

[mbwarhorse]

Generally we have two different familys in the Jeep world.  Purists  and non-purists.  Now the purist group can range from "if it didnt come from Toledo that way" to very minor mods using factory parts. The non-purist range from shade tree mechanics using duct tape & bubble gum to AWESOME fabricators using solid, proven techniques. 

I tend to lean towards the purist crowd.  The cleaner and closer to stock a rig is the greater its value.  Where I fall away from my other purist friends is that IF it has mods it does not necessarily decrease its value, it only narrows the number of people who desire that mod (assuming its a quality modification).   

[JMO413]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

ok, that was a somewhat poor example because of warranties.  There are still a lot of guys that buy used "built" rigs because they already "look cool".    

 

It's just not me.  Nothing I've ever bought was seriously modded in any way (unless you count the whole-sale gutting of a couple of the MJs). 

That was just my thought of why you see so many at dealerships now. 

In the end it's no different than anything else it's only with what someone is willing to pay for it. Looks cool is the ticket to some people. On the other end your have the survivor/factory crowd.

 

In my opinion any Mod that makes the truck more functional would add value. 

 

[Pete M]

7 hours ago, DesertRat1991 said:

It wasn't until I met Jeepers that I learned there were "car guys" out there that expected you to give away mods for free. 

 

If you put a turbo kit, triple adjustable coilovers and a $3,000 set of wheels on an import, the value goes up.  But if you lift, stroke and axle swap a Jeep the online community says "Sorry, you never get back what you put in." 

 

IMO, those kind of things should add value but the Jeep community perpetuates the contrary notion. 

 

Personally, I will part my truck out down to the uniframe before I GIVE away mods to some Bubba for free.

 

I think we might have a disconnect here.  When most guys say that "you won't get your money back", they mean that the cost of labor + parts won't get automatically added to the value of the vehicle.  but (assuming the mods were done well with good parts) some value will get added to the rig.  If you add a $4000 paint job to a $2000 truck, you won't get a $6000 truck, but you can get maybe a $4000 truck.  maybe?  Essentially the parts/labor depreciates, but the truck will gain some value. 

[amsuco]

8 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

Three types of people- 

Capable and knowledgeable and talented. 

Incapable, ignorant, should never touch a wrench. 

Hacks.

 

Well, this certainly isn't good news!

 

I don't honestly feel that I fit into the first group.  (As much as I wish it were so.)

 

And I try real hard to not fit into the third group.

 

That just leaves...

 

But at least I recognize my limitations!

 

All kidding aside, I have a great appreciation of your abilities Jeep Driver, even if I'd make different choices sometimes.

[Eagle]

9 hours ago, DesertRat1991 said:

It wasn't until I met Jeepers that I learned there were "car guys" out there that expected you to give away mods for free. 

 

 

We're not "car guys." We're "Jeep guys."

[Eagle]

23 hours ago, Jeep Driver said:

Three types of people- 

Capable and knowledgeable and talented. 

Incapable, ignorant, should never touch a wrench. 

Hacks. 

 

Unfortunately too many Jeep owners are Hacks.  

 

 

^^^ Quoted for truth. And that's why most Jeep guys don't want to pay for mods -- because the mods are rarely done to any semblance of acceptable standards.

 

Some years ago I looked at a lifted Cherokee. The rear lift was an add-a-leaf. The doofus put the AAL under the entire spring pack  

And then he had the chutzpah to claim the lift was "professionally installed." (The XJ was at a small, rural garage -- he might have actually paid them to install it. Frightening thought!)

 

[schardein]

On 2/29/2020 at 2:38 AM, Minuit said:

Here's my take.

Pretty much nailed it.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, right?

 

LED light bars suck.  Angry grills on Wranglers suck.  Someday, people will look back and laugh, in the same way we look back now at 80s trucks with 8 KC daylighters on the roll bar with neon green light covers, and 8 shocks per axle with matching shock boots.  That day can't come soon enough.

 

I really enjoy looking at completely stock "survivor" or restored to original vehicles, especially square body Chevy trucks and Jeep CJs.  I can understand the "purists" viewpoint.  But I don't want to own one.

 

I also get a kick out of people who build vehicles that are intended (or look like they are intended) for hard off road use, but put $$$$$ into body & paint work.  I've experienced the $5k paint job and the scratched fender on the very first off road trip.  Never again.  It's so much more fun not to care about a scratch or dent.  

 

I think age and experience play a part in our preferences too.  When I was in my early 20s, I drove a lifted K5 with 35" tires.  I also competed in mud bogs regularly.  At one point I was competing weekly.  I see people buy brand new vehicles (not only Jeeps) and put 35" or bigger tires on to literally drive to the mall.  It's all about looking cool I guess.  I also recall driving an old Toyota truck with 35" bias ply tires, and replacing them with BFG 33" radials, and being completely awestruck by how much better the truck handled, accelerated, braked, better mpg, easier to get in and out of, and yes, even worked better off road...  I had  lot of fun in that truck, once I fixed all the previous owners (plural) "mods".  

[Jeep Driver]

13 minutes ago, schardein said:

$5k paint job and the scratched fender on the very first off road trip.

 

I'm not defending myself.........I don't need to. 

I am, however, offering a POV. 

 

 

Let's call it- Clean Slate. For those of us who can and are willing to, it's nice to have a clean or fresh start. 

 

Whatever it is which one does for a living, whatever line of work, whatever experience one gains over his lifetime, the tips and tricks of the trade. I painted my first house at the age of 14, I'm now 54, I've been building for 40 years. What would be overwhelming to you, comes naturally to me. 

 

Mechanics, body and paint, diagnosing electrical....etc.......

It's not what most of us do for a living, it's separate and apart from our daily lives and experiences. It's about the challenge, it's about stepping into another line of work, learning all you can, extending yourself, getting out of any kind of comfort zone........for a while, you step into another man's shoes. 

And seeking some form satisfaction from it all, no matter how illusive. 

 

I bought my MJ as a practical work truck. Mud bogging, rock bouncing.......dragging a tree stump down the side of a truck.........ripping out drive shafts and axles........etc......not only am I unimpressed and disinterested, I find it to be a mind-numbingly dumb thing to do. 

I happen to have an MJ, my MJ happens to be my hobby, my means of extending myself, if I owned something else, I'd be somewhere else. 

 

What's my point?

Jeep people........off-road people in general........seem to have a very narrow POV.

 

And no, I won't be cruising the malls. There are many of us who fall somewhere between Mall Wranglers and Trail Trash. 

 

 

And, if I scratch it, I can fix it. 

 

[schardein]

3 minutes ago, Jeep Driver said:

 

I'm not defending myself.........I don't need to. 

Haha, you absolutely, 100% are.  I don't even know what you're talking about.  I wasn't referencing you in my post.

[Jeep Driver]

8 hours ago, schardein said:

Haha, you absolutely, 100% are.  I don't even know what you're talking about.  I wasn't referencing you in my post.

 

No, I wasn't necessarily referencing you either, but jumping off of your post to speak to the larger picture. 

 

I find lowriders, mini-trucks, 'street trucks', to be as absurd as Trail Trash, but everyone has their bag. 

 

There is a member here doing just that, the lowrider thing, ain't my thing but more power to him.

There are all kinds of guys here doing their thing........we all don't fit in the same box.