10W60

[BizarroStormy]

So my jeep is currently running royal purple 10W30 and it runs great until it has fully heated up after an hour of street driving. At that point the valves start to clatter and my oil pressure drops to about 20psi idle, 38ish when flooring it. The engine has 223k miles on it so I was thinking of putting in an oil with a higher hot viscosity and the highest I could find on amazon with a 10 base weight was Liqui Moly 10W60. I figure it should still work fine because it starts at a 10 weight which my truck likes and should stay closer to its original viscosity when it gets hot due to the high temperature modifiers. It looks like it is mostly used in motorcycles and high mileage BMWs. So what do you guys think? Would this cause engine damage or would this solve all my problems?

[ghetdjc320]

Have you tried adding some marvel mystery oil or similar to quiet the valves? Your oil pressure is still ok. 

[JustEmptyEveryPocket]

I know its not what you are asking, but I recommend Shell Rotella T6 5W40 or similar, a Wix XP filter, and, if necessary, 1 quart of Marvel's Mystery Oil. My engine is well over 230,000 miles and still going strong. YMMV.

 

 

[BizarroStormy]

My valves used to clatter all the time when I first got the truck. I add Sea Foam to the oil before I do an oil change to help clean out old sludge and now it only clatters when very hot.

[54bobby]

castrol semi syn. 15/40 238k on the mj and 410k on the 86 bmw e30.  imho, the older high mileage engines love the diesel additives.

[ghetdjc320]

Uh oh, I sense another oil thread coming lol 

[Pete M]

have you checked that none of the bolts under the valve cover need tightening?

[BizarroStormy]

I have actually had the cover off recently because I have an aftermarket aluminum cover and the spring retainers used to hit it until I ground some clearance into the side of it. I checked the rockers by hand and they felt secure. But I'm not opposed to pulling the cover again to see if I need to grind more. I will run my torque wrench over the bolts to ensure they are secure. 

[mjeff87]

I ran 20w50 in mine, lol.  10/30 would result in an idle pressure of about .5 psi.  You're in FL, so I'd think you wouldn't have any cold oil issues.

[75sv1]

I might replace the oil pump first. As suggested before check your oil pressure. If you go with a more modern oil, ie low Zinc I'd add a Zinc ZDDP (?) additive. I might check Brad Penn Oil or even Amsoil for a Diesel rated oil. 

[75sv1]

Two issues I've had of running higher viscosity: one is a drop in MPG. The other in a Ford Contour is the lifters clattered.  I remember the Oil being Mobil M1. Nothing wrong with M1. 

[cruiser54]

Rotella T4 15-40. wix oil filter. Cheap and plentiful everywhere. 

 

MMO added to oil 1,000 miles before next oil change. 

[ghetdjc320]

In summary: Your oil pressure is not out of the norm. Double check your valve cover clearance if that has been an issue for you in the past. Don’t run 10w60

[scaleless]

And also remember that running heavier oil is masking the problem, not solving it.

[75sv1]

3 hours ago, cruiser54 said:

Rotella T4 15-40. wix oil filter. Cheap and plentiful everywhere. 

 

MMO added to oil 1,000 miles before next oil change. 

I might go the T6. They do make a T6 in 15-W40 or so. Depends if the OP is using or losing oil or not. NAPA Gold, Wix, Baldwin. Even NAPA Platinum if the OP wants extended oil drains. 

[87MJTIM]

From reading this, it sounds like a lifter tick is fairly common with these engines.  Mine gets a ticking/chattering sound when the engine is warm.  I have 312k on it.  It was refreshed at 267k.  I tried Sea Foam in the oil last year without a noticeable change in the noise.  I got some MMO to try next. I am not sure if I can expect different results.  (See the definition for insanity.)

 

Is the voodoo and snake oil just a band aid to a bigger problem?  Is the ultimate fix to problem to replace the lifters/push rods/rocker arms?

[cruiser54]

Nope. MMO can clean the inside of the lifters so they work smoothly. 

[scaleless]

20 minutes ago, 87MJTIM said:

From reading this, it sounds like a lifter tick is fairly common with these engines

I guarantee you less than 5% of owners use oil suitable for flat tappets or even know what a camshaft is.  That'll significantly reduce its expected service life.

 

23 minutes ago, 87MJTIM said:

I tried Sea Foam in the oil last year without a noticeable change in the noise.  I got some MMO to try next. I am not sure if I can expect different results. 

 

Like Cruiser said, Seafoam and MMO will clean the engine out - very thoroughly, in fact - and can quiet lifters if they are blocked.  They definitely won't restore a worn cam or lifters, though.  Both MMO and Seafoam work much better in appropriate quantities, though, and due to the relative cost I see people putting a lot more MMO in their crankcase than Seafoam.  I prefer Seafoam, but your mileage may vary.

[87MJTIM]

I've used 10/30 since new.  Mostly Penzoil, but have used other brands occasionally, but always 10/30.  I used to use Fram or other brands, but have not used those in many years.  I purchase NAPA filters now.  Oil changes were done from 3000 to 5000 miles.  In 33 years, I have done all the changes.

 

I followed the directions on the SF label - 6 oz. in the oil BEFORE changing.  Run it for approx. 1000 mile, then change.  It seams odd to put the SF/MMO in with dirty oil.  Would it be better to put it in a fresh change.  Run it for a 1000 miles then change again?

 

[scaleless]

1 hour ago, 87MJTIM said:

Would it be better to put it in a fresh change.  Run it for a 1000 miles then change again?

 

 

I mean, you can do that if you want to spend all your money on oil.  The reason you add it to dirty oil is because it will dissolve the sludge in the engine into the oil, which you would then theoretically change.   Adding it to oil before a change, no matter how dirty, is the correct use.

[cruiser54]

Scaleless is giving excellent advice. 

[rokinn]

I suppose one should take this advise with a grain of salt but with no evidence to the contrary I'm happy with the results.  When I first got my MJ one of the first things I did was replace the cork valve cover gasket with a Felpro gasket.  The top of the engine under the VC was loaded with dense sludge and had a healthy lifter tapping noise.  I cleaned it up as best as I could with screw drivers and a putty knife.  Better but still pretty bad.  I began running some MMO along with my oil as well as more just before an oil change.  When I decided to do the VC vent mod I noticed that the sludge had turned from hard goo to large amounts of flaky crud that seemed destined to break off and go into the oil and through the filter or worse, the oil pump.  After sopping up as much oil in the top end as I could I put a wet dry filter in my shop vac and ran it right next to where I began breaking loose the crud with a variety of utensils.  The vast majority of it would get sucked into the vacuum.  Kept at this until it was as clean as I could get it that way.  I then started the engine and flushed it for a minute or so.  Drained the oil immediately and refilled it with Rotella 5w40 and a new filter.  It wasn't long before my tappet noise went away and my idle smoothed out very nicely.  Purrs like a new engine now.

[gogmorgo]

I usually seafoam an engine when I buy it. Diesel oils also have a higher detergent content for dealing with all the soot, so they also tend to scrub out the engine much better. The few times I’ve pulled a valve cover off one of my engines it’s been spotless inside.

But I will say that after Seafoam and Rotella in my ZJ, the lifter tick actually got louder. I’m pretty sure said ZJ hadn’t been getting oil changes as regularly as it maybe should have, and think it probably got louder after knocking all the insulating sludge out of the valve cover... big that’s just a hunch, I haven’t pulled this one yet.

As far as oil weights go, I won’t run anything higher than a 5w, and haven’t noticed much difference in noise or pressure between 30 and 40 weight. I used to run 15w40 Rotella in the summer because I could get it in cheaper conventional, and swap out to synthetic 5w40 for winter, but then one winter I left it a little longer than I should have, and at -20°C the engine cranks over noticeably faster on a cold start with the 5w40 than the 15.

[cruiser54]

13 hours ago, rokinn said:

I suppose one should take this advise with a grain of salt but with no evidence to the contrary I'm happy with the results.  When I first got my MJ one of the first things I did was replace the cork valve cover gasket with a Felpro gasket.  The top of the engine under the VC was loaded with dense sludge and had a healthy lifter tapping noise.  I cleaned it up as best as I could with screw drivers and a putty knife.  Better but still pretty bad.  I began running some MMO along with my oil as well as more just before an oil change.  When I decided to do the VC vent mod I noticed that the sludge had turned from hard goo to large amounts of flaky crud that seemed destined to break off and go into the oil and through the filter or worse, the oil pump.  After sopping up as much oil in the top end as I could I put a wet dry filter in my shop vac and ran it right next to where I began breaking loose the crud with a variety of utensils.  The vast majority of it would get sucked into the vacuum.  Kept at this until it was as clean as I could get it that way.  I then started the engine and flushed it for a minute or so.  Drained the oil immediately and refilled it with Rotella 5w40 and a new filter.  It wasn't long before my tappet noise went away and my idle smoothed out very nicely.  Purrs like a new engine now.

I have watched MMO dissolve the sludge before. Never turning it crusty. Maybe if it's as bad as yours, you should put 2 quarts in at the same time. 

[rokinn]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:30 PM, cruiser54 said:

On 5/19/2021 at 9:23 AM, rokinn said:

 

I have watched MMO dissolve the sludge before. Never turning it crusty. Maybe if it's as bad as yours, you should put 2 quarts in at the same time. 

Thanks.  Maybe next time I'll try that, if there is one!  As it is the problem is solved on this one.