Any thoughts on this load leveling device?

[ghetdjc320]

So I've been looking for something to help level the load when hauling without an add a leaf or new springs. I really like current ride quality with my bastardized 5 leaf pack but I don't have enough spring rate for hauling or towing. Ive been looking at doing an air helper spring and still like the idea but I do notice that it can severely limit travel as most bags only have about 6" of total travel. Then I came accross these guys: https://activesuspension.com

I reached out and they said they didn't have anything that fits a Comanche but they agreed to let me send them all the specs of what I'm working with and see if they had a kit that might work from another application. Still not 100% sure if they have something that may work but I should know soon. My spring brackets are quite a bit different from the stock layout. 

 

Anyways, any thoughts on this system design from RAS? 

[pizzaman09]

I've seen advertisements for their helper spring setup before.  It looks logical to me.  Let us know if you get it sorted out.

[ghetdjc320]

46 minutes ago, pizzaman09 said:

I've seen advertisements for their helper spring setup before.  It looks logical to me.  Let us know if you get it sorted out.

It certainly has a lot of good reviews. The principle seems sound but I’m curious how it works in the long term. 

[watchamakalit]

Almost sounds like your wanting a car like ride with truck like hauling capacity. I'd say suck it up buttercup, trucks ride rough. 

 

Not much else to add, other than the capacity of the GS springs is real. My MJ will handle anything most half ton trucks will. 

[ghetdjc320]

21 minutes ago, watchamakalit said:

Almost sounds like your wanting a car like ride with truck like hauling capacity. I'd say suck it up buttercup, trucks ride rough. 

 

Not much else to add, other than the capacity of the GS springs is real. My MJ will handle anything most half ton trucks will. 

 Engineering is real 
 

I may still go air suspension but like the idea of what this company came up with. GS spring design is just not what I’d want to run again. 

[Pete M]

I say try it.  

 

(brought to you by: "Jeepers helping Jeepers spend their money", a division of You Got This Dude! enterprises)

[Comanche SS]

When I was researching load helpers for my Sierra, I saw these. The thing I don’t care for with these is it adds more items that will wear out/squeak, or rust. 

Airbags are simpler, andjustable and are a pretty sound design, many thousands if not millions of airbags cruise our highways every single day. Not to mention, your truck is already setup for airbags.

Another thought to consider is doing a helper spring like the one ton trucks do, that is not active unless a load is compressing the standard spring pack a certain amount. Simple and effective, trouble free too.

[Eagle_SX4]

3 hours ago, Comanche SS said:

Another thought to consider is doing a helper spring like the one ton trucks do, that is not active unless a load is compressing the standard spring pack a certain amount.

I was also going to suggest this. Not sure how it would work on a Comanche with the springs under the frame though.

[derf]

24 minutes ago, Eagle_SX4 said:

I was also going to suggest this. Not sure how it would work on a Comanche with the springs under the frame though.

There are two styles.  On some trucks, the helper springs are separated from the main pack above the axle and the frame has bump stops that the springs contact when the main springs compress enough.

 

The other style looks like the picture above.  They are directly integrated into the spring pack.  They have less arch than the main springs.  As the springs compress and flatten out, they compress against the load springs and the spring rate is added to the main leaf pack.

 

The second style is easy to install and is a good compromise.  Unloaded, you don't compress enough to hit the higher spring rate.  Loaded, the helper springs just automatically kick in.

[Comanche SS]

20 minutes ago, derf said:

There are two styles.  On some trucks, the helper springs are separated from the main pack above the axle and the frame has bump stops that the springs contact when the main springs compress enough.

 

The other style looks like the picture above.  They are directly integrated into the spring pack.  They have less arch than the main springs.  As the springs compress and flatten out, they compress against the load springs and the spring rate is added to the main leaf pack.

 

The second style is easy to install and is a good compromise.  Unloaded, you don't compress enough to hit the higher spring rate.  Loaded, the helper springs just automatically kick in.

Might just find an s-10 or ranger kit and make it work. 

[robfg67]

Never heard of it, but I'm interested.

 

The P.O. installed a Rusty's 4" lift with new leaf springs. It rides fine empty or loaded down, but the rear drops down a lot with not much weight added.

 

Please follow up if they have one and you install it.

[ghetdjc320]

4 hours ago, robfg67 said:

Never heard of it, but I'm interested.

 

The P.O. installed a Rusty's 4" lift with new leaf springs. It rides fine empty or loaded down, but the rear drops down a lot with not much weight added.

 

Please follow up if they have one and you install it.

Will do! If they don’t have a kit I’ll go with an airbag setup. I may fabricate an upper bracket to replace the bump stop as I really don’t like the J bracket that the airlift kit uses. Been looking at ridetech systems. I also just don’t want to loose the flex and on handling of the current system by slapping on some thick rigid springs.  

[89 MJ]

Dave Chapelle from the Dirthead Shed on YT has done a lot of air bag rear suspension setups for rock crawlers. Not exactly what you’re after, but it might be worth looking into for some inspiration. 

[ghetdjc320]

29 minutes ago, 89 MJ said:

Dave Chapelle from the Dirthead Shed on YT has done a lot of air bag rear suspension setups for rock crawlers. Not exactly what you’re after, but it might be worth looking into for some inspiration. 

I’ve heard of that but hadn’t seen any of his work. Seen a lot of air bag work from Texas metal though. Will have to lookup what he’s done. Ultimately, I’d love to have some links installed along with airbags in the correct location to act as a complete suspension system, but I think that may be something I plan a ways down the road. 

[Eagle_SX4]

8 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

Dave Chapelle from the Dirthead Shed on YT has done a lot of air bag rear suspension setups for rock crawlers. Not exactly what you’re after, but it might be worth looking into for some inspiration. 

Here is the the walk-around of his Mazda truck.

 

 

[ghetdjc320]

Following up on this: I was able to work with the manufacturer to make a custom kit that should fit my MJ. I can't say for sure that it will fit all MJ's as my shock mounting and leaf mounting are not stock. I will report back though on how it works. Hope to have it installed in a couple of weeks. The more I look at the design the more I like how it works. I was wanting to add a rear sway bar as well but may not need to with this setup. Will report back with my overall findings. Hoping this works for stock or lifted trucks to reduce squat without having to have a lot of forward rake in the suspension to accomodate. In my application, I tow a fair amount and will also load up the bed with cargo for work. I have already added some belltech chevy 1" drop shackles (which are around 6.375" eye to eye and similar to the teraflex). That added just over an inch of lift while keeping my angles at the driveshaft correct. 

[ghetdjc320]

Following up on this. Install went well. I’m running some belltech 1” Chevy drop shackles which provide about 1” of lift over stock.

 

Installation:

I believe the hook portion of the RAS would fit a stock MJ shackle as well but it should be noted that you’ll have to remove one side do the shackle, either top or bottom, to install the hook portion around the rear spring eye, then reinstall the shackle. As for preloading the new coil, the recommendation is to tighten it with no load on the spring (full droop). But I found this to not be practical as the spring rate of the coil spring is about identical if not slightly higher than the main leaf. Therefore, the coil will try to bend your leaf if you just keep cranking it down to get the proper preload. Note that the “kit” comes with a pair of thin plastic disks that you insert between the spring coils to determine how much preload the coil spring is set to. According to the instructions, the white disk provides and additional 25% load capacity and the black disk provides a 40% increase. 
The way I installed it, I allowed the wheels to touch the ground so the springs were holding some of the truck weight. I then stacked a feeler gauge with enough leaves to represent a thickness halfway between the white and black plastic disks. I then tightened the coil until the new preload was set. I feel like this level of preload is just right. I tried cycling the suspension several times on the lift to make sure there was good tension still at full droop so nothing would loosen up and it was spot on. 

 

Results: First off, I have not yet towed with it but have tried various bed load from empty to a few hundred pounds. With any load the squat is gone. More importantly, the handling when unloaded is exactly what I was looking for. Even while unloaded, the truck feels “planted” and like it has a sway bar back there. How this would affect wheeling I can’t say for sure but would theorize that it would actually help as there would be a bit more downward force on each wheel due to the RAS. Similar to an active version of a Currie anti-rock. I don’t have any axle wrap that I was aware of but there is an enhanced smoothness to taking off now that was surprising. With an unloaded bed on a slick steep incline, I resist spinning better for some reason .

 

I haven’t seen any drawbacks yet, no noises creaking or adverse affects. It’s a fairly simple device that I expect should be fairly durable. Personally, I will likely swap to some high grade stainless hardware as the level of salt and moisture here is extreme. Once installed, I sprayed it all down with CRC Marine coating spray which has worked very well for me in the past to prevent corrosion on zinc and galvanized parts. I’ll probably spray down the underside of the jeep with Penetrol at some point to preserve things and keep them in top shape. While installing, I had access to a full lift and shop which made the install go quicker but this could easily be a driveway job. 
 

Use Case: I’d be very inclined to use a setup like this on an otherwise stock MJ to run 31’s comfortably. It does provide a small amount of lift maybe 1.5” or so. But given the new spring characteristics and load handling, it should be a great fit for a simple puck lift or OME 2” front coils. That would be a seriously great handling combo. Since the unit goes on top of the springs, you loose no ground clearance nor would you alter the pinion angle. I suppose it could help axle wrap if you had that problem with your current spring/shock combo. A lowered or street MJ would probably also like this setup to prevent bottoming out along with some improved handling. Those with heavy loads, towing or toppers of course can appreciate what this does 
 

And finally, here are some install pics:

 

 

[robfg67]

Questions...

 

So you did not use either supplied white or black disks?

 

What do you mean by feeler gauge?

 

I know you said they made you a "custom" set up for your non-factory rear suspension; but what would be the best way to order a set up for a factory suspension?

 

Thanks, I'll probably think of other questions. Appreciate your time.

[ghetdjc320]

47 minutes ago, robfg67 said:

Questions...

 

So you did not use either supplied white or black disks?

 

What do you mean by feeler gauge?

 

I know you said they made you a "custom" set up for your non-factory rear suspension; but what would be the best way to order a set up for a factory suspension?

 

Thanks, I'll probably think of other questions. Appreciate your time.

I started with the white disk. Originally I attempted to adjust it while the leaf springs were at full droop, but this turned out to be too much spring preload. So I lowered the jeep back down until the wheels were back on the ground and the spring pack leaf ends were just contacting each other again. Basically, this put the leaf springs in “neutral” similar to how they would be if the were resting off the jeep (no compression or droop). Then I set the coil preload to the white disk. I found this to be a bit on the lite side so I essentially made a shim stack from a feeler gauge that was halfway between the white and black shims. For me, the ideal setting was an addition 2 full turns of preload past the white shim preload. Hopefully that makes sense . 
 

As for which kit to order, I have no reason to suspect this kit wouldn’t work on a stock rig. Personally, I’d like to see the spring eye hooks be like 2mm smaller for a tighter hook. But that could probably be accomplished with just a small 2-3lb hammer maybe with a bit of heat. That being said, I don’t notice any ill effects with the current spring hook size. 
 

The kit number they set me up with is numbered “4621”. They don’t list it on their site but you can call and order it. I believe they have a pretty good return policy if it doesn’t fit properly. Keep the box and keep the unit in good shape and I think you have 30 days to try it out. It would be great if someone with a stock spring setup could give this a shot. Curious also to see if a long bed could make use of this kit with the smock mount location. Checkout the pictures of my setup and see what you think in regards to fitment. But ultimately, someone just has to give it a shot and perhaps make a few small tweaks.

[robfg67]

It appears as if your mechanical ability is a bit deeper than mine, so the install seems a bit confusing. 

 

Do you know if there is a good video out there to follow?

 

I have a long bed, so will it be a different kit than yours?