What Do You Say to "You should Sell the Jeeps"

[Drahcir495]

10 hours ago, PCO6 said:

You get to an age though when maintenance, repairs, fabrication, mods, parts collecting, etc. starts to wear you down.  

Exactly why I’m down sizing. But the property is crying out need more jeeps 

[Eagle]

On 9/3/2024 at 2:12 PM, Drahcir495 said:

Have no idea why other than reliability potential.

 

Very true 

 

Yeah - reliability.

 

When my '88 XJ hit 250,000 miles I was so concerned that it might become unreliable that I bought a new 1999 Grand Cherokee. I think I owned it seven months -- might have been eight. Out of the time I owned it, it spent at least a full month and a half in the shop (once for three straight weeks) while they tried (unsuccessfully) to repair various problems. The first time in my life I experienced death wobble was in that new Grand Cherokee. It had never been farther off road than my gravel driveway and was completely stock. Then, at about 7,000 miles, it just ... quit ... in the middle of the road. I had it towed to the dealership. They had good news and they had bad news. The good news was that they had diagnosed why it quit. The bad news was that the part needed to repair it wasn't available in the parts system yet.

 

A told them to keep it. Dimestore-Chrysler bought it back from me to prevent me from invoking the lemon law. The '88 Cherokee now has 287,000 miles on it. It'll still run, but my daily driver is now a 2000 XJ that I bought (new) several months after dumping the Grand Cherokee.

[Eagle]

2 hours ago, mjeff87 said:

Wife doesn't care, which is a bonus.  She knows I have to be wrenching on *something* to be happy.

 

Wives should be happy we're wRenching instead of wenching ...

[gogmorgo]

I wouldn’t suggest new cars are any more reliable than something old and looked after. There’s thousands of components that go into a car, and the risk of one having a manufacturing defect goes up the more components you’re looking at. There’s a term for it in engineering, something related to infant mortality, where the chance of things going wrong right away is high but the risk of issues decreases over time. 
On an older machine you’re mostly dealing with wear and tear, and while the chance of wear related issues goes up when the chance of manufacturing defects goes down, wear and tear is predictable and easily managed through proper service.

We’ve got a ton of older vehicles in our fleet. We don’t experience too many failures because when we bring them in for scheduled maintenance we give them a thorough look over, and deal with any issues that are starting to be a problem.

The vehicles that are being headaches are the newer ones with teething issues. We’ve got a ‘24 F150 our safety/rescue team uses that bricked itself in one of the most remote locations we’d send vehicles to and took a 50-mile tow to the dealer yesterday, and the first 20 miles of that weren’t paved. No blown fuses, batteries are good, but only half the truck works and it’s not the driving parts. We’ve also got a ‘23 F550 that keeps throwing misfire codes and has been back to the dealer twice already with no actual repairs done because there’s nothing obviously wrong with it. Considering out of our fleet of ~100 vehicles, some of which date to early ‘90’s and mid-‘80’s, we only picked up a half dozen new vehicles in the last couple years, that’s not great numbers on the new vehicles.

While newer vehicles definitely have better occupant protections in the event of a collision, which is a legitimate concern about loved ones, the only other advantages are modern creature comforts, status, and there’s usually a warranty often with roadside so you don’t get the bills for repairs. Wear and tear doesn’t go away, they still need all the same maintenance. You just pay more for them. 

[Drahcir495]

12 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

I wouldn’t suggest new cars are any more reliable than something old and looked after. There’s thousands of components that go into a car, and the risk of one having a manufacturing defect goes up the more components you’re looking at. Wear and tear doesn’t go away, they still need all the same maintenance. You just pay more for them. 

If I get it all squared away and running, it's just a matter of maintenance at that point. I have to convince her that even new cars have parts that wear out. At least I don't need a degree in quantum physics to diagnose a problem. I know how to repair my jeeps. 

[Drahcir495]

On 9/4/2024 at 9:27 PM, Eagle said:

 

Yeah - reliability.

 

When my '88 XJ hit 250,000 miles I was so concerned that it might become unreliable that I bought a new 1999 Grand Cherokee. I think I owned it seven months -- might have been eight. Out of the time I owned it, it spent at least a full month and a half in the shop (once for three straight weeks) while they tried (unsuccessfully) to repair various problems. The first time in my life I experienced death wobble was in that new Grand Cherokee. It had never been farther off road than my gravel driveway and was completely stock. Then, at about 7,000 miles, it just ... quit ... in the middle of the road. I had it towed to the dealership. They had good news and they had bad news. The good news was that they had diagnosed why it quit. The bad news was that the part needed to repair it wasn't available in the parts system yet.

 

A told them to keep it. Dimestore-Chrysler bought it back from me to prevent me from invoking the lemon law. The '88 Cherokee now has 287,000 miles on it. It'll still run, but my daily driver is now a 2000 XJ that I bought (new) several months after dumping the Grand Cherokee.

Geeze. I like Dimestore-Chrysler so much, it's in my "can't wait to get a chance to use it" file

[Drahcir495]

On 9/4/2024 at 9:33 PM, Eagle said:

 

Wives should be happy we're wRenching instead of wenching ...

[Drahcir495]

On 9/4/2024 at 6:54 PM, mjeff87 said:

I sold my MJ years ago, because I built it up to more than I could (legally) do with it and it became a garage queen.  At that point in my life, it was the right time.  Fast forward about 10 years and I'm again itching to tinker on something again just for fun.  I'm in a different spot now.

 

I do have the KJ, which is my little creampuff but is wholly impractical to turn into any kind of half serious wheeling vehicle (and I don't want to hack on it anyway).  Ill probably pick up a beat to hell and back XJ to work on.

 

Wife doesn't care, which is a bonus.  She knows I have to be wrenching on *something* to be happy.

I've missed hearing from you Jeff. I met your wife, and she seems to have a passion for your passions 

[eaglescout526]

24 minutes ago, Drahcir495 said:

If I get it all squared away and running, it's just a matter of maintenance at that point. I have to convince her that even new cars have parts that wear out. At least I don't need a degree in quantum physics to diagnose a problem. I know how to repair my jeeps. 

You know, modern automotive parts are wayyyyyy more expensive than they ought to be. Hell even safety devices that…keep one’s life save ironically costs a fortune. Luckily the Jeeps pulled from ford and GM so those parts can be found for cheap. Sure you aren’t saving fuel with the Jeeps but there’s just soooo much more to a modern car that it’s not worth to even have a modern car. So much so that it’s hit a point where you have to ABSOLUTELY take it to the dealer for your car to be worked on.  

[Salvagedcircuit]

1 hour ago, eaglescout526 said:

You know, modern automotive parts are wayyyyyy more expensive than they ought to be. Hell even safety devices that…keep one’s life save ironically costs a fortune. Luckily the Jeeps pulled from ford and GM so those parts can be found for cheap. Sure you aren’t saving fuel with the Jeeps but there’s just soooo much more to a modern car that it’s not worth to even have a modern car. So much so that it’s hit a point where you have to ABSOLUTELY take it to the dealer for your car to be worked on.  

 

He's got a point. The water pump on a 4.0L is literally $40 from acdelco and that's a higher tier part. you could get a clone zone for less. The alternator is $100 and 45min to install. My dad's jeep WK2 starter was $200 for a rebuild and you need to unbolt the engine from the engine mounts, jack the engine up, ratchet strap the exhaust out of the way so you can access it. On the 4.0L you have to crawl under the vehicle and access some bolts that are not super easy to reach, but you don't have to nearly remove an engine from the engine bay to access it!

[TurboedMJ]

Another example of new cars ≠ reliability... Couple months ago my dad calls me and says his jeep won't start. It's a 2023 grand Cherokee with the 5.7. dead battery. It had about 15k miles on it at that point. Course, we had to take it to the dealer to replace the battery because you can't even see the battery when you open the hood. When I got there to jump it the car was so dead that the power locks didn't even work. Otoh, in my ~4 years of driving various vehicles that range from 1989 to 2004, I've only been left at the side of the road twice - once because I ran out of gas and once because the fuel pump died on my jeep. Both easy fixes that I could do. Different story on the new stuff. 

[Spinnakerblue89]

For me the biggest factor is cost. It costs less to insure, it cost a lot less to buy the vehicle outright, and because it's a reliable vehicle, maintenance isn't much of an issue either. 

 

It doesn't cost $40k to repair the vehicle, so I don't need to spend $40K on a newer, *arguably* less reliable vehicle.

 

That's just me. But in this economy, there is little to justify paying the exorbitant prices even on used vehicles if what you got works 

[WranglerMangler]

I agree with most people on the issue. 
You can pry my old Jeeps out of my cold, dead hands! 
The Astronomical prices they are asking for new vehicles these days do not justify the product you receive in my opinion.  
I would argue your MJ is the most reliable vehicle you own. Let’s see your 2011 Explorer in 30 years. Bet the MJ will still be around (if no acts of god take her) 
I think about the cost and process of having to replace an engine on anything less than 5 years old. Seems like the dealership does anything possible to void the warranty. 

MJ engine blows, $500 on marketplace and a weekend of time, you’re back on the road. Plus, when was the last time someone commented on your 2011 Explorer? Oh man! Is that your Explorer? I remember riding around as a kid in my uncles 2011 Ford Explorer. Loved that thing. 
Or I always hear, I used to have a Comanche!  Wish I never sold that truck. Said nobody about a 2011 Explorer. lol. Keep the Jeeps!!! 
PS, 
I showed this thread to my wife and she said 2 Jeeps? That’s it? He need more Comanches! 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Drahcir495]

16 hours ago, WranglerMangler said:

 I would argue your MJ is the most reliable vehicle you own. Let’s see your 2011 Explorer in 30 years. Bet the MJ will still be around 

 Plus, when was the last time someone commented on your 2011 Explorer? 
PS, 
I showed this thread to my wife and she said 2 Jeeps? That’s it? He need more Comanches! 

😂great points!

 

Problem fixed . I’ve just moved back from my dream property to keep my Jeeps. That was just the tipping point really. At least I get to keep half my stuff! The Jeeps aren’t worth anything on paper, so the “unreliable junk” is all mine. 

[Torq_Shep]

I almost sold mine and my partner told me that "I had to keep it as I would eventually just buy another one anyway".

 

He is probably right...

[Drahcir495]

9 minutes ago, Torq_Shep said:

I almost sold mine and my partner told me that "I had to keep it as I would eventually just buy another one anyway".

 

He is probably right...

And imagine how much more they would cost. That’s a partner you want there for you 

[pizzaman09]

Of the 4 vehicles I own that are road legal, to MJ is the one I was most trust to hop in and just drive 1000 miles.  The newest car in my fleet, a 2009 Honda Civic Si has scary electrical gremlins, and the 99 BMW M3 has a couple coolant hoses that I really should replace.  The 62 Austin Healey Sprite is a good runner, no faults at all, but it is actually ancient tech and would be a challenge to drive for a long distance.

 

The one thing I like most about 80s and 90s cars are their simplicity, fuel injection and electronic ignition are fantastic improvements in reliability, but the controls are still simple and all analog.  That generation just blends simplicity and reliability better than any other Gen of cars in my opinion.

[gogmorgo]

For what it’s worth, it’s been 23 days since that ‘24 F150 took a ride to the dealer. It’s still sitting there. Apparently the wires for the a/c compressor came into contact with the exhaust and shorted out, which is what bricked the thing, and they’re still tracing out and replacing all the stuff that fried. We got a call yesterday saying they’re waiting on more parts. Fortunately it’s under warranty still I guess. 

 

On most MJs (I can’t speak to the 2.8) the a/c compressor wiring isn’t anywhere near the exhaust, but on the off chance it did short out some other way, it would pop the fuse for the compressor clutch and you’d lose your a/c but you’d still be running and driving. Worst case Ontario your compressor clutch pulley grenades, but you can tie a shoelace around the water pump, alt, and crank pulleys and keep driving. It shouldn’t brick the vehicle. 
 

I’m not saying don’t go out and buy a new vehicle, there’s plenty of good arguments for doing so, but expecting it to be any more reliable than something older you’ve been maintaining properly is completely unrealistic. 

[dasbulliwagen]

Nobody mentioned, why not get rid of the Explorer to get something less than 5 years old? That makes more sense to me. You have two vehicles, The Jeeps, appreciating in value, and the Explorer deprciating.  It only makes sense!

[mbred0609]

bought my first comanche this weekend. my wife says i don't need all these jeeps. my excuse or reason is, i have one for each of the kids and 3 for me. well technically still looking for a white comanche for the youngest. i bought my eldest daughters first car she purchased (99 xj) when she got a 2010 GC, my next daughters first car she purchased (97 tj) after it was hit in a parking lot, and gave my son a 99 xj (technically still my title). I have a 99 xj, 01 tj, and now an 88 mj.

 

alternatively my excuse is, its cheaper to swap between vehicles than it is to buy a new one.

[89 MJ]

1 hour ago, mbred0609 said:

alternatively my excuse is, its cheaper to swap between vehicles than it is to buy a new one.

Welcome to the forum! 
 

I completely agree with this statement. New cars are expensive and when it’s getting work, you’re stuck without a car. If you’ve got several older cars, your initial investment is less and you’ll have something to drive when one of them is out of commission. 

[mbred0609]

1 minute ago, 89 MJ said:

Welcome to the forum! 
 

I completely agree with this statement. New cars are expensive and when it’s getting work, you’re stuck without a car. If you’ve got several older cars, your initial investment is less and you’ll have something to drive when one of them is out of commission. 

that's exactly it. i spend less in a year doing maintenance, and repairs on 2-3 jeeps (not including big things that aren't general) even with multiple inspections and registrations than i do in 2 months of car payments on my truck, that i rarely drive. i just have to make sure i do the repairs in a timely manner if one breaks down. the only time I'm basically required to drive my truck is when my kids need my jeeps because their cars break down or the wife doesnt feel like sitting in my jeeps.