Bad news

[knever3]

I was wondering that myself, didn't think to check the sig.  Bummer

[87MJTIM]

Manual transmission: always was, always will be.

 

 

[EUREKA]

9 hours ago, knever3 said:

No one has mentioned a cracked flex plate or loose TC bolts?  If the tick gets better when warm the flex plate expands and the noise if minimized.  It will get worse the more it cracks though.  This was my experience personally.  I thought it was a bearing myself.  Pull the cover and inspect with a good flashlight.

 I have experienced this as well.

[DirtyComanche]

Broken off clutch fingers can give you noises like that too...  But normally you have other clutch issues when that happens.

 

It really is a matter of trying to isolate the noise, along with examining the contents of the oil pan and filter.  The filter is easy to start with, soooo....

[87MJTIM]

Update, so far.

 

I went to meet with the mechanic.  He had the truck on a lift and had the oil pan off. 

 

There were no chunks of metal in the pan and no glitter in the oil.

 

He was inspecting the bearings under the main caps and the connecting rods - at least the bottom halves.  There no noticeable markings on any of the bearings.

 

He told me he used a stethoscope on the engine and thought the sound was loudest at the center of the oil pan.

 

He pull the oil pump.  There was some "notchiness" in spinning the gears.  The is also some up-down motion in the distributor shaft.  He thought those might be the source of the sound.  He is ordering a replacement - high flow - pump.

 

Good so far.  Not performing and amputation for what may only be a cut.

 

 

 

When I got home, he called to tell me he put plastigage on the rear main bearing and got a reading of .006.  Factory spec calls for .002.  He is going to see if he can appropriate size bearings.  Next may be just a crank kit.

 

Making progress - hopefully.

[AZJeff]

2 hours ago, 87MJTIM said:

Update, so far.

 

I went to meet with the mechanic.  He had the truck on a lift and had the oil pan off. 

 

There were no chunks of metal in the pan and no glitter in the oil.

 

He was inspecting the bearings under the main caps and the connecting rods - at least the bottom halves.  There no noticeable markings on any of the bearings.

 

He told me he used a stethoscope on the engine and thought the sound was loudest at the center of the oil pan.

 

He pull the oil pump.  There was some "notchiness" in spinning the gears.  The is also some up-down motion in the distributor shaft.  He thought those might be the source of the sound.  He is ordering a replacement - high flow - pump.

 

Good so far.  Not performing and amputation for what may only be a cut.

 

 

 

When I got home, he called to tell me he put plastigage on the rear main bearing and got a reading of .006.  Factory spec calls for .002.  He is going to see if he can appropriate size bearings.  Next may be just a crank kit.

 

Making progress - hopefully.

That bearing is pretty worn.  MOST of the upper "frosty silver" layer is gone, and that's a sign of wear and tear.   Assuming the crank itself shows no scoring due to dirt or metallic stuff, a new set of bearings might fix this.

[87MJTIM]

Thanks, AZ.

 

I don't know what good v. bad bearings look like.  My mechanic, Kenny, is going to speak with another engine builder about the bearings and crank.

[Minuit]

My bearings at 150k didn't have a third of the wear that yours do. That's beyond what I would consider unacceptable wear for a 50k rebuild.

[EUREKA]

The pattern of wear is not too concerning imo but the amount of wear is defiantly not right.

 

[DirtyComanche]

Looks like they didn't set the clearance right on the main bearings to begin with.

 

Also, what oil and filters have you been using?

[87MJTIM]

28 minutes ago, DirtyComanche said:

Looks like they didn't set the clearance right on the main bearings to begin with.

 

Also, what oil and filters have you been using?

 

Napa Gold for many years - at least since the rebuild.

[87MJTIM]

Update (Conclusion?)

 

Kenny (my mechanic) got an opinion from another guy that rebuilds engines.  The guy said the crank would need to be replaced or turned.  Kenny and I discussed several options.  He thought that to work on it properly, it would be best to pull it. 

 

(I know, some of you will say YOU can do that work with the engine still in the truck.  Well, Kenny runs an auto repair business.  He makes his money by repairing cars.  He is not an engine rebuilder.  He cannot dedicate all his time to working on my engine.  The other guy he spoke to does that type of work, but is backed up and wouldn't be able to get to mine for a few months.)

 

We talked about other issues with the engine.  Issues that may have caused the excess wear on the bearings.  For a long time (I am talking several years) the oil pressure has been running at 60 psi.  I perform oil changes every 3000 to 5000 miles.  I have used Penzoil 10-30 practically every change since new.  Since the prior rebuild, I have used NAPA Gold filters.  (So, please don't ask again.)  There has been a constant "ticking" (knocking?) sound for a long time, also.  I don't know which started first: high OP or the ticking. Both have been present since shortly after the rebuild.  

 

As I detailed previously, I thought it the sound was an exhaust leak.  I replaced the manifold gasket and retightened the bolts.  I periodically would re-snug them down.  The noise was still there.  As a matter of fact, the noise was louder when the engine was warm.

 

I next thought the noise might be a lifter tick.  Two weeks ago, as the noise got louder still, I removed the valve cover to see if there were loose rocker.  I couldn't detect any that were excessively loose.  I started the engine to watch the rocker.  I was looking for any that were not moving or not moving as much as other.  There was no obvious difference in movement for any of them.  I only ran the engine for a minute or two....

 

One thing I did see was that very little oil was coming up through the push rods.  Let repeat that: there was very little oil getting up through the push rods!

 

This is what Kenny and I discussed.  We think that an oil blockage my be causing the poor oil flow.  Poor oil flow would cause excess wear on the bearings.  If the crank was changed but the (possible) blockage was not addressed, I would be back there in a few years with the same issues.  

 

So....

 

I am having him install a reman'd engine.  He will have it later next month and installed.  I will have my truck back sooner than a rebuild would take.  Also, he asked if I would like to upgrade to a Stage 1 CAM.  It could give 10% more power and torque.  (I read up on this mod: more lift and longer duration.)

 

For everyone that wants to offer advice - "You shoulda..." " I woulda...", thank you.  My decision is made.  The die is cast.  I have crossed the Rubicon.

[EUREKA]

On 2/2/2022 at 5:21 AM, 87MJTIM said:

The sound did get louder about 2 weeks ago.  The speed of the sound increases with RPMs.  As the engine warms up, the sound does get less noticeable, but does not go away. I have not noticed any change in performance.

 

I have been using NAPA Gold for several years, at least since the rebuild.  No FRAMs for this engine!

Just to be clear, you did previously state "As the engine warms up, the sound does get less noticeable". Guess that was in error.

[EUREKA]

33 minutes ago, 87MJTIM said:

I am having him install a reman'd engine.  He will have it later next month and installed.  I will have my truck back sooner than a rebuild would take.  Also, he asked if I would like to upgrade to a Stage 1 CAM.  It could give 10% more power and torque.  (I read up on this mod: more lift and longer duration.)

 

For everyone that wants to offer advice - "You shoulda..." " I woulda...", thank you.  My decision is made.  The die is cast.  I have crossed the Rubicon.

So you do, or do not want advice on the stage 1 cam? You understand more lift and duration means less vacuum? And that "stage 1" means different things for different brands of cam so its best to go by actual lift and duration? Some are not great for daily drivers.

[87MJTIM]

The more recent noise did become less "loud" after running for a while, the earlier noise did get louder after warming up, but is was not as noticeable at start up.  This is my recollection today of events that occurred previously.  I did not mean to confuse the sounds.

 

As for Stage 1 CAMs: what I wrote is what I read on the internet (so, it must be true, right?).  I did not consider vacuum or possibly other issues.  Yes, it is a daily driver, not a "race" truck.

[cruiser54]

Do the cam. 

[EUREKA]

12 hours ago, 87MJTIM said:

The more recent noise did become less "loud" after running for a while, the earlier noise did get louder after warming up, but is was not as noticeable at start up.  This is my recollection today of events that occurred previously.  I did not mean to confuse the sounds.

 

As for Stage 1 CAMs: what I wrote is what I read on the internet (so, it must be true, right?).  I did not consider vacuum or possibly other issues.  Yes, it is a daily driver, not a "race" truck.

I didn't catch that there were two different noises.

[EUREKA]

3 hours ago, cruiser54 said:

Do the cam. 

The man has spoken. I'm sure you'll have plenty of vacuum for the brake booster, and we don't have vacuum advanced timing.

[cruiser54]

Call Chad at Golen Engines and see what he has for ya. 

[87MJTIM]

I want to give an update to this. 
 

The Jasper engine arrived at the end of March. The mechanic got it installed a week later. I wasn’t able to get it then. (My work keeps me busy until April 18. I am a CPA preparing taxes.)

 

I received a text from him that it was dripping oil. He was going to reseal the oil pan. When he dropped the pan, there was metal shavings in the pan. 😯

 

One of the Cam bearings was toasted. It hasn’t even been driven! Jasper will send a replacement engine. 
 

I am not getting a warm feeling for Jasper. 
 

I will follow up with more info as I get it. 

[EUREKA]

Sorry to hear that!

[Pete M]

ouch.  that sucks

[scguy]

8 hours ago, 87MJTIM said:

I want to give an update to this. 
 

The Jasper engine arrived at the end of March. The mechanic got it installed a week later. I wasn’t able to get it then. (My work keeps me busy until April 18. I am a CPA preparing taxes.)

 

I received a text from him that it was dripping oil. He was going to reseal the oil pan. When he dropped the pan, there was metal shavings in the pan. 😯

 

One of the Cam bearings was toasted. It hasn’t even been driven! Jasper will send a replacement engine. 
 

I am not getting a warm feeling for Jasper. 
 

I will follow up with more info as I get it. 

That's not good. We've sold Jasper for years and only had one problem trans. They stand behind their products, and warranty parts and labor to the shop

[87MJTIM]

I read a lot of reviews of Jasper engines. Most were favorable. There were many unfavorable also. I understand that most reviewers have issues. People that don’t have issues don’t typically reply. So, it was good to read positive reviews. 
 

The engine must have been a “Monday “ engine. 

[Fryedaddy]

If you're going to replace, wait until it goes out. I've had many jeeps over the years. Once they have more than 100k they all made noises. I bought my comanche from a family that never had a 4.0 before. It had piston slap and they thought it was a major issue. I've owned it for four years, I've driven it on 5-6hr trips and hope to go to Moab in it this year. I'm not worried about reliability at all.