4x4 Conversion.. Is it worth it?

[Eriko5000]

I've got an '89 MJ with the 4.0 i6, and AX-15 5-speed manual transmission.  Picked it up as a running project truck and it's been a blast to fix up.  It's just a 2 wheel drive, and it would be sweet to convert it to 4x4.  My question is this: How much would it cost (Rough estimate) to have a shop convert it, and would it be worth it?  From everything I've read on the internet, the general consensus for converting a 2wd to 4x4 is either do it yourself (Which is typically more work than it's worth) or sell your 2wd and buy a 4x4.  I would lean towards the latter option, but since MJ's are rare and harder to find in good condition, maybe that changes the value of taking on the conversion project with the MJ I've got?

 

I'm not very experienced in mechanical repairs, and doing the conversion myself is way out of range.  I'd definitely sooner just live with 2wd, then try to take it on myself.

Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated!

[Pete M]

first question: what do you need 4wd for?

 

second question: are you planning on keeping this thing forever or just flipping it?

[Eriko5000]

27 minutes ago, Pete M said:

first question: what do you need 4wd for?

 

second question: are you planning on keeping this thing forever or just flipping it?

"need" would be for winter weather, and utility of using around the farm.. Not much for off-roading, but I do like the idea of having that ability as well.

I haven't decided on keeping or flipping it yet.  I like it enough that I could see myself keeping it indefinitely but I'm also still in the window where I could flip it if I needed/wanted to.

[Pete M]

if you pay someone to do all the work, you're not likely to get much of that back in value.   also, the 4wd parts are becoming more challenging/expensive to find (so start hunting right away if you go that direction).  also, also, don't let that beauty touch salt.  not even once.  

[Eriko5000]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

if you pay someone to do all the work, you're not likely to get much of that back in value.   also, the 4wd parts are becoming more challenging/expensive to find (so start hunting right away if you go that direction).  also, also, don't let that beauty touch salt.  not even once.  

I appreciate the advice!!  If I decide to go the 4x4 swap route, it would definitely be after deciding "I'm keeping it until it dies."  I definitely wouldn't want to put that time and money into it, so tell it because it definitely doesn't sound like it would add enough to the resale value to make up the difference.

I'm going to do my very best to avoid salt!  I'm in Knoxville, so fortunately we don't get too much winter weather to have to deal with salted roads.  She's already got a rusty floor pan, but other than that, the body is clean and solid!

[1987Comanche]

 If you look at my build thread you'll see the 4WD conversion in there.  It gives you an idea of what is involved.  As Pete mentions finding the parts will require some time.  If you're willing to do the legwork and find all of the components paying a shop might be feasible.  For labor ask the shop of your choice to price the following:

 

-clutch job on 4WD MJ (5.9 hrs labor per Mitchell with pilot bearing & flywheel)

-R&I front axle on 4WD MJ (4 hours per Mitchell)

-Install transfer case lever & linkage (1.8 hours for the rod & bushings)

-Cost to build a driveshaft (2WD one can't be modified as there's a rubber damper in it)

 

Add your parts costs to that + a fudge factor of, say 20%, and you'll be in the ballpark.

 

[scguy]

22 minutes ago, 1987Comanche said:

 

-Cost to build a driveshaft (2WD one can't be modified as there's a rubber damper in it)

 

My driveline shop shortened my stock 2wd driveshaft. They said the damper was no problem. 

[Pete M]

same here.  they shortened the non-damper side.  

[Eagle]

Whether you keep it or sell it, it's definitely not worth paying a shop to make the swap. IMHO it's definitely worthwhile if you do the work. There's nothing complicated about it -- it's all bolt-in parts except for having the rear driveshaft modified. Find a Cherokee donor vehicle and just move the parts over. Just be certain that the donor vehicle has the same gear ratio as your 2WD rear axle.

 

[Eriko5000]

13 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Whether you keep it or sell it, it's definitely not worth paying a shop to make the swap. IMHO it's definitely worthwhile if you do the work. There's nothing complicated about it -- it's all bolt-in parts except for having the rear driveshaft modified. Find a Cherokee donor vehicle and just move the parts over. Just be certain that the donor vehicle has the same gear ratio as your 2WD rear axle.

 

Thanks for the response!  Where do you find the information on what gear ration the 2wd axle is?  That's part of the piece that intimidates me, thinking about trying it myself.  There's a lot of details about the job that I'm not familiar with.

[Pete M]

4.0L + manual = 3.07

 

 

[Andy in Pa]

This is a very slippery slope because there are probably a million little things you should do at the same time as doing this conversion.  Do you want to lift it as well?  Control arms/bushings, motor mounts, tranny mounts, ...etc...  How mechanically inclined re you?  Could you do the interior work, front axle swap and other work, and take it to a shop to do the tranny/t-case swap, driveshafts and finish it up?

 

I just did this to my 89 MJ, but I have lots of local connections to Jeep parts, as well as nationally in some cases.  I also did the majority of the work myself.  Finding an ax-15 set up for 4wd was the most expensive part, but the rest of the BIG parts were free in my case.  Of course, the D30 I got needed rebuilt with bearings, ball joints, seals, rotors, calipers, brakes...  I went to a deeper gear ratio (3.55's) so also swapped in an 8.25 rear too.  So leaf spring pads, drums, hardware kit, cylinders, pads and such for the rear too.  I converted the t-case to an SYE version (4wd MJ driveshafts are VERY hard to find) and had a custom rear shaft built locally, and cut down and re-balanced a front shaft which was less than $100. 

 

My best recommendation to you is to get involved in your local Jeep clubs, meets and local repair shops and show that MJ around a bit.  It looks VERY clean, and once you start talking to some of these folks about possibly converting it to 4wd, you may find some local help.

 

Otherwise, figure its worth right around $6-7K as a 4wd 5 spd 4.0L if you talk to a shop and they give you a price to do the work.

[75sv1]

As suggested, try and find a Local Jeep Club. In my case, one of the locals does good work for less than a Full shop. Also, some members might have parts available. Here's a link to get ideas for parts:

Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market

Also, I'd see what a locker in the rear would cost. Sort of a way to gain some traction. Also, you could factor in 'upgrades'. As suggested lifting.I'd add in an external slave cylinder. Possibly a better axle if you have a D35. Add say regearing if going with bigger tires. You could do this in steeps. Say a 2" budget boost and 31's. Find a rear axle from an Auto Manche. Maybe add a locker or find one with. 

   Also, you might loose a bit of MPG. I'd say 1 mpg highway. 

[ExpatMJGuy]

I'm about to undertake this same venture.  I have a salvage title 99XJ donating all the parts including a butter smooth shifting AX-15. I used to be a dealer tech at Ford and Nissan so I'm not at all scared to do the work.  The only part I haven't gotten figured out before I start is where to get my drive shaft modified.  Any body got any good recommendations in the southeast specifically within driving distance of Atlanta?  

[Pete M]

https://www.google.com/search?q=atlanta+driveshaft+shop&hl=en&sxsrf=AOaemvKH2zes9775rAQSgGJ0kY_KJ9IHzg%3A1639113775042&source=hp&ei=LuSyYe36PO2zggfc1pGABw&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYbLyPwKzXBCK7rMuk2mXcklsKEyOjiD4&ved=0ahUKEwjtybjSvtj0AhXtmeAKHVxrBHAQ4dUDCAg&uact=5&oq=atlanta+driveshaft+shop&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjoHCCMQ6gIQJzoECCMQJzoRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQ0QM6BQguEIAEOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToICC4QgAQQsQM6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBENEDOgsILhCABBDHARCjAjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CwguEIAEEMcBEK8BOg4ILhCABBCxAxDHARCvAToFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEIAEEMkDOggIABAWEAoQHjoJCAAQyQMQFhAeUIYEWNQhYIQlaAFwAHgAgAGIBIgB1CWSAQsyLjEwLjEwLjUtMZgBAKABAbABCg&sclient=gws-wiz

[scguy]

10 hours ago, ExpatMJGuy said:

I'm about to undertake this same venture.  I have a salvage title 99XJ donating all the parts including a butter smooth shifting AX-15. I used to be a dealer tech at Ford and Nissan so I'm not at all scared to do the work.  The only part I haven't gotten figured out before I start is where to get my drive shaft modified.  Any body got any good recommendations in the southeast specifically within driving distance of Atlanta?  

I used Master Fabricators in Augusta, GA. They did an excellent job. I'm sure there's closer drive line shops to you though. 

[ExpatMJGuy]

12 hours ago, scguy said:

I used Master Fabricators in Augusta, GA. They did an excellent job. I'm sure there's closer drive line shops to you though. 

I'd like for it to be a bit closer but I'm retired Army signal Corp so I never "hate" a trip to Augusta.  Need to see if any of my friends are still stationed there. 

[1987Comanche]

Quote

My driveline shop shortened my stock 2wd driveshaft. They said the damper was no problem. 

 

  Must be a individual shop preference.  Asheville Powertrain said they wouldn't touch one with a damper.  He said they couldn't guarantee balance afterwards.  I guess I'd cal any perspective shop prior to driving out and confirm they will/will not shorten your d/s.

[75sv1]

Also, for winter, I'd suggest either snow tires or 3Peaks. I run 3 peaks on both of my XJs. I haven't really had a good test in the past few years though. Also, you might check into a front winch for farm work. Sort of another kettle of fish though. 

[gogmorgo]

My own $0.02, I didn’t have a ton of difficulty tracking down parts. Got most of them off local jeep groups on the facepage, other than the rear driveshaft, although I did have to drive some distance. Just keep an eye out, they do pop up from time to time. I think I’m into the stash for about $300, plus fuel and drive time.

That said, I haven’t gotten around to doing the conversion just yet, and even with an open diff and never really carrying any weight in the bed I haven’t had trouble getting around in the Canadian Rockies in the winter. As has been said, winter tires are pretty key. And these are just some older mid-level studless winters I got with another vehicle, nothing fancy.

[89 MJ]

IMHO, for your spring-fall driving, you would be fine with an LSD and a set of all terrains. I have never put myself in a situation that I have ever really needed 4 wheel drive in my truck, even with the suspension at full flex. Just keep it out of the mud and you should be fine. 

[89ComancheProject]

I recently converted an 88 4WD to 4WD 😂. 
 

Mine had the Peugeot trans. Bought a 96 Cherokee donor with AX15 transmission. Changed out the transmission, transfer case and crossmember. Ordered Azzy’s 4WD shifter linkage. Changed out old CAD front axle for 96 D30 with bigger new Ujoints and new ball joints. 
 

I used a shorter driveshaft from an Automatic SWB MJ that worked with the SYE. 

 

I don’t have a shop or garage and I had back surgery recently. I paid a local shop roughly $2500 for labor. Flywheel, clutch, transmission, crossmember, linkage, ujoints, ball joints, shocks, brakes, tuneup, etc. 

 

Parts/donor vehicle roughly $2000

 

I will never get my money back, but I have a better transmission with external slave cylinder, better 4WD shifter and better front axle. 
 

 

[75sv1]

I went to the NAXJA Winterfest this past year. It was muddy. I did get stuck once and near stuck a few other times. Some of the rigs were using snow tire chains. I think the synthetic chains were suppose to be better than the metal ones. I will say my MJ seemed to do fine in snow with regular M&S tires. Near what the FWD cars I drove at the time. 

[Jesse J]

15 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

IMHO, for your spring-fall driving, you would be fine with an LSD and a set of all terrains. I have never put myself in a situation that I have ever really needed 4 wheel drive in my truck, even with the suspension at full flex. Just keep it out of the mud and you should be fine. 

I concur. I didnt 4wd swap but I did ax15 swap out of a cherokee I bought for 1,000 bucks and broke even on selling parts off of that. So much work! definitely go LSD route. my truck is 2wd atm because of parts delays and I took it to school in 6" of snow and I wouldn't of gotten there without the true trac.