Pentastar Comanche

[knever3]

Since everyone is on the lookout for a more refined motor in our Jeeps how about the new 3.6L Pentastar V6? 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Jeep-Wrangler-Pentastar-3-6L-V6-Engine-Motor-VVT-285-HP-Oem-12-/221178672351?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item337f46b4df&vxp=mtr#ht_1991wt_1399

 

285hp out of the box?  Great gas mileage with refined power and performance and it's a motor built by Mopar.

 

Let the discussion begin.

[mzairboy]

Way to many electronics. The JKs are ridiculous with all the wiring under the hood. I have an 09 and love it, but the electronics are overboard.

[jimoshel]

Will it directly bolt in to replace  2.8?

^^^^^Likes to dream.

[GirsMJ86]

Sure it will, so long as you grab everything else to go with it and make up some mounts. Then it'll directly bolt in.  :thumbsup:

 

It could be done, and would be a good engine to swap to, but it would be very time consuming and require a lot of hacking. So with that said, who wants to attempt it first?

[dasbulliwagen]

This may be a good candidate for a swap. The hard part would be its complex electrical system. They have built in exhaust manifolds so building downpipes would be relaitively easy. If youve ever driven a 3.8 Wrangler, and then driven a 3.6 Pentastar Wrangler, its like night and day in the power difference. We get complaints from owners of Chryselr 200's and Dodge Avengers with this motor in them having torque steer issues under full throttle. I can't imagine what one would do in a 3000 lb Comanche! 

[JeepcoMJ]

Still junk. Why sacrifice the reliability?

[HOrnbrod]

Mileage on my 2012 JKU with the 3.6 isn't great, about 22 MPG average. My MJ gets almost the same on the highway (21) but is horrendous around town (13 max). But the MJ will blow the doors off the JK at a stop light. Of course we're talking about an almost 5500 lb. vehicle vs. a 3000 lb vehicle with a stroker. And the JK is one of the few vehicles less aerodynamic the the MJ/XJ.

 

The 3.6 Pentastar in an MJ if the electronics issue could be overcome (it could) would be freaking awesome. The 3.6 with it's alloy block weighs in at 383 lbs. The 4.0 weighs 515. It would be a hell of a swap performance-wise. MPG in a lightweight MJ would increase at least 25%.  Would love to see someone do it.

[jimoshel]

Earlier this evening I got a email from ebay showing a pentastar engine for $12K. Couldn't find it. All I could find was this.

 

 

 

 

2012 Jeep Wrangler Pentastar 3.6L (V6) Engine Motor (VVT) 285-HP Oem 12

 

 

 

 

 

 

$2,500.00

 

Buy It Now

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

New Take-Out 2012 2013 Jeep Wrangler 3.6L Pentastar Engine Assembly 68082776AB (Fits: Jeep)

 

 

 

 

 

 

$2,650.00

[jimoshel]

I really wouldn't buy just an engine like that for a swap. I would want the whole vehicle with all associated parts. I'm gonna check tomorrow. See if I'm still on the insurance co salvage vehicle list.

[COFFMAN]

If ya ganna look 2011 - 2013 Grand CRD 3.0 would be the $#!&e :brows:

I really wouldn't buy just an engine like that for a swap. I would want the whole vehicle with all associated parts. I'm gonna check tomorrow. See if I'm still on the insurance co salvage vehicle list.

[terrawombat]

 

If ya ganna look 2011 - 2013 Grand CRD 3.0 would be the $#!&e :brows:

I really wouldn't buy just an engine like that for a swap. I would want the whole vehicle with all associated parts. I'm gonna check tomorrow. See if I'm still on the insurance co salvage vehicle list.

I'd let the owners with that engine put some more miles on before I considered it doing a swap with it.  This will also be the engine used in the 2014 Ram 1500 so it's about to become a lot more common Stateside.

[Stacks]

...... I can't imagine what one would do in a 3000 lb Comanche! 

 

Hmmmm... my Comanche with a half a tank of fuel and two 160lb people weighs 4620.  :hmm: 

[HOrnbrod]

Excess armor and lead stacks?  :dunno:

[Alexia]

Mine weights something around 3,300 pounds. I have the scale sheet around somewhere.

 

285 horsepower in a light Comanche? That is about what comes out my stroker and I want more.

 

As for doing the swap it is entirely possible. All the electronics would be necessarily and if the factory PCM is to be kept then the firmware would have to be changed to disable items such as traction control.(Unless you added that too.)

[Pete M]

if I remember right, the lightest MJ was supposedly around 3k lbs according to the brochures.

[HOrnbrod]

285 horsepower in a light Comanche? That is about what comes out my stroker and I want more.

 

How do you know? Ever had it dynoed? I have. I want more too. Didn't realize it was way back in 08 after the 09 intake manifold and Unichip install. You can see how everything jumped up from the previous run. The BLUE lines are torque, Red is HP. Peak HP is at 4400RPM. The PURPLE O2x100 lines is A/F ratio.

 

[Comanche County]

Yup, could be the best Jeep engine of all time.  Just need about 10 years or so to see if it comes close to the 4.0's reliability, so the verdict is out.

 

Though, if used for towing duties, a magnum V8 or diesel engine would be the better choice IMO.

[dasbulliwagen]

Theres a 3.2 version of this motor coming out in the new Cherokee in another month or so. And there is talk of a 3.0 version possibly with direct injection or some kind of forced induction. This engine coupled with the 8 speed in  the Grand cherokee is a decent runner powerwise. it feels  much more peppy than the old 3.7 and when the 8 speed kicks down, you WILL be passing someone real quick! I agree about the long term reliability still being a question mark. I just hope they have their bad cylinder heads issue worked out. They arent any fun to change.

[Alexia]

 

 

285 horsepower in a light Comanche? That is about what comes out my stroker and I want more.

 

How do you know? Ever had it dynoed? I have. I want more too. Didn't realize it was way back in 08 after the 09 intake manifold and Unichip install. You can see how everything jumped up from the previous run. The BLUE lines are torque, Red is HP. Peak HP is at 4400RPM. The PURPLE O2x100 lines is A/F ratio.

 

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x297/comanche91/dyno_zps5d081000.jpg

 

 

I promise to get it dyno'ed once I have the transmission and transfer case issues worked out. Right now I am relying on calculations I wrote down to estimate the horsepower which depending on the variables I supplied ranged from 260 to 290 with a mean of 275 and a weighted average of 280.

 

It seems the bad Pentastar cylinder heads were a short lived issue. The 3.6L with the variable valve timing is interesting to drive and almost reminds me of turbocharger lag as it builds up horsepower while switching over timing. It roars to life moving the Jeep forward then WHAM! It all kicks in rather suddenly. The 3.6L really could be the next big legacy in Chrysler engines, but at least there will be tons of spares available since they are being tossed in every 2011+ Chrysler vehicle.

[HOrnbrod]

I promise to get it dyno'ed once I have the transmission and transfer case issues worked out. Right now I am relying on calculations I wrote down to estimate the horsepower which depending on the variables I supplied ranged from 260 to 290 with a mean of 275 and a weighted average of 280.

 

It seems the bad Pentastar cylinder heads were a short lived issue. The 3.6L with the variable valve timing is interesting to drive and almost reminds me of turbocharger lag as it builds up horsepower while switching over timing. It roars to life moving the Jeep forward then WHAM! It all kicks in rather suddenly. The 3.6L really could be the next big legacy in Chrysler engines, but at least there will be tons of spares available since they are being tossed in every 2011+ Chrysler vehicle.

 

The AW4 robs about 25%-30% of the HP to the rear wheels. With the intake/exhaust/fuel/ignition systems mods and the Unichip, I've eliminated that loss and then some from the original engine dyno readings on the rack. It's nice to have a baseline to work from to see how much performance improvement (or degradation) the modifications you make actually do. I'd be very interested to see the numbers on your engine before then after supercharging. Hesco does a good job running a dyno test. They take it up all the way past the HP peak, like 6000 RPM or so. Several times, after making FP, MAP, and Unichip adjustments. It scared the hell out of me the first time.  :eek:

 

So far so good with the JKU. We have about 11K on it now, it's running great, and we haven't heard the dreaded ticking noise from either the right or left side. 10K-12K is normally when the head issues have been showing as far as I can tell. It looks like the head issues were mostly cleaned up by the mid 2012 vehicle year. Our is a late 2012 model.  :crossfingers:

[a1500ram]

Yup, could be the best Jeep engine of all time.  Just need about 10 years or so to see if it comes close to the 4.0's reliability, so the verdict is out.

 

Though, if used for towing duties, a magnum V8 or diesel engine would be the better choice IMO.

 

If you could source a Ram 1500 with the 3.6L and 8 speed automatic you will get 305hp unsure of torque 260 or 290 ft lbs. with a 6400lb towing capacity.

 

I have a 2013 Ram 1500 crew cab with the 3.6L and 8 speed automatic and the performance is quite more noticeable compared to the 2002 Ram 1500 quad cab with the 4.7L V8 that I traded in.

 

I believe this would be the better engine and transmission for the MJ. IMO

 

Forgot to mention fuel mileage. Took a 1700 mile road trip earlier this summer.

 

On the highway averaged 26.1 mpg and overall trip over a two week period was 22.7 mpg. Combined city/Hwy driving.

[Crash]

I personally, never been a big fan of Chryco powertrains. I do, however, like me some XJ/MJ, ZJ and WJ's. 

Yes, the 242-I6 is super reliable, but was in existence before Chryco owned AMC/Jeep. 

My plan for both my XJ and MJ is GM LSx style engines. If I can make it happen, use the 6L80E, 6 spd trans as well. 

These GM engines are super reliable, plentuful, and powerful. Novak makes pretty much everything you need to drop in an go, from motor mounts, to headers/rad etc. 

Other than diesel, you will say to yourself "Could have had a V8"

[terrawombat]

I personally, never been a big fan of Chryco powertrains.

Gotta agree with you there.  Chryco engines and transmissions are some of the worst on the market in terms of reliability (with the exception of the Magnum series), which is why I'm approaching the new Pentastar with a lot of caution.

 

As you said the 4.0L I6 used in our beloved MJs was carried over from AMC after the merger.  All Chryco did was implement some casting changes to the mold to reduce noise, vibration and harshness.  The reliable transmissions in the MJ/XJ/YJ/TJ are either from Aisin-Warner or Mercedes.  Chryco transmissions simply do not last and their entire RE series transmissions are a joke.  I'm not too sure on how the newer transmissions are (the 6 and 8 speeds), but I will remain skeptical based on the historical track record.  Until I start seeing the majority of owners talk about pushing their Chryco powerplants to 200K+ with only regular maintenance, their stuff is garbage in my eyes.

[FrankTheDog]

I'm with you on the mopar transmissions.

I've had a 94 ZJ since 2001. I bought it with 109k on it.

I had the tranny rebuilt at 165k. At 250k I replaced the engine and transmission.

The engine was probably ok but the replacement engine and transmission I had had only 166k on it and was excessively maintained.

When I cleaned out the Jeep to give to my mother in law I found that the original transmission was replaced at 90k.

In 280k that ZJ had 4 transmissions in it. The 96 XJ I have has 255k on it on the original transmission and it still works great.

I've had several original AW4's now with over 250k with no troubles.

I like the Grands but I wouldn't buy another one unless it was a stick or an early 93 with an AW4.

[Incommando]

In the "Did I Really Just Read That" File: Someone is complaining about 22 MPG in a 5,500# 4dr Wrangler???? When the EPA sticker rates it at 17/21 mpg?  :dunno: A V6 Camry only averages 25 mpg combined by most reviews.

 

I don't see where the 3.6 would be any harder to install than any other modern engine as far as electronics goes. The only difference would be that other engines have already been swapped into more vehicles so you wouldn't be blazing a whole new trail with one of those selections.

 

Chrysler made great engines and transmissions. The 727 series was as good as it got. However for most late model jeeps they spun around a caravan transaxle for rwd orientation and it sucks. If your tranny has "43" in the name anywhere you have a van transaxle not a real transmission. Better automatics were available at the time, such as the 45 series, but were used sparingly in jeeps. 

 

We are spoiled by how fantastic modern vehicles are now. During the height of the 60's and 70's getting 100k out of your car before it was junk was a milestone let alone 165K on an auto tranny. Today even an econobox will outperform many "muscle" cars from that era in several categories while being easy to drive and return great mileage for long periods. Heck a V6 Camry will dust most every small block "SS" Chevy made if you go back and look at actual numbers and not rely on "my '72 ss350 Nova ran 14.30's stock. All I did was flip the air cleaner lid upside down" fish tales. The Camry will legitimately run 14.30's all day and out turn, out stop, and out comfort that Nova, as well. 

 

As to the Camry choice: I am not a fan of Jap vehicles. I chose it as it came up first on a google of mid-size vehicles. It is also been one of the 3 the best selling cars here for years. And is considered a mediocre performer in its class.....