bigalpha Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I am just curious to what people think. I enjoy a good debate. Please keep it civil. I am an evolutionist. I am also a Geologist. I think Creation doesn't belong in science class because it's not science. :nanner: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotblake Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Looks good to me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faRlFsYmkeY :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Sadly, I can't watch YT at work :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Being from a christian upbringing, there is no other belief than creation. I understand the process of evolution, and believe that some "things" have evolved, but can in no way believe that humans evolved. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I was brought up in a good family values home, but my parents didnt go to church although they beleive, and they never taught me anything about it... so I was left to figure it out on my own. And the only thing that ever made any sense was science and evolution. The thought that there was a higher being that no one has ever seen or could prove the existence of was just another fairy tale with no basis in reality. I know that Jesus was a real person, but did he really do the stuff they said he did? I don't think so. The bible, or any religious text for that matter is a book of fairy tales for the sole purpose of teaching morals, and giving uneducated people a way to explain things they don't understand. And I'm not even going to go into the huge religious money racket that various churches have going. That is one more reason to not beleive. And no one will ever change my mind on the subject. Thats another thing that bugs me... people who convert! If you truly and absolutely beleive in something, there should be no way at all that anyone could change your mind and make you beleive something else. If you can convert from one to another, then how well did you beleive to begin with? I usually keep this to myself in order to keep peace and not be bothered by people who think I am wrong. You don't see atheists going around trying to get more people to be atheists. I just want to live my life knowing I am a good person, and when I die, maybe a tree somewhere will get some good nutrition. I know there are groups out there that have a religious explanation for everything that happens, and when I see it, it just looks like they are grasping at straws trying to prove that everything in their life has not just been one big lie. Its sad really. Think what you want to think about me, but all I want to do is live and let live. I beleive what I want to, and you beleive what you want to, I really don't care as long as you don't try to force your opinion on me. Let the hate mail begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdhntr Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 since we are homeschooling this is a big issue. many homeschooling publishings are geared around creationism and don't teach evolution. we believe in evolution so we have to make sure we get the right books. i come from a catholic upbringing, so i'm going to hell for just thinking of evolution. my wife was a strict methodist so she's coming with me. here entire family line would stone us for considering evolution. my parents don't care, my sister is athiest, but past my parents and siblings, they'd try to get me drunk untill i forget evolution. i do believe in god and church, just not all of it. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotblake Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 :agree: I am from a small town and do go to church, not because I believe or don't believe in god, but because it brings people together. Sex religion and politics are the big three I keep to myself. Having said that, we have Santa Clause to remind kids to be good or they will not get any gifts, and we have god for adults to remind them if they are not good they will not get into heaven, which if it is anything like bible camp for those of you that have been to one I will take my chances down below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigd44889 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 das u got it about right i agree whith you you sumed it up pritty good :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 I know a lot of people say that science is a religion and an idol. I find this to be false. Science explains things in our world. Usually, in depth. The ideas that science backs are repeatable, they have withstood scrutiny from countless individuals. Science is flexible. If scientists get more data/information that disproves what was previously thought, then science has absolutely no problem revising its stance. OTOH, those very religious folks will not consider new data/info and they will never change their minds. I have some very close friends who are creationists and die hard christians. But, I think they're wrong. I'm not an athiest, but I don't believe in God, either. However, I'm open to change. If something comes along to convince me that some higher power is around, I'd be more than willing to change my mind. IMO, even if you take away everything, all scientific facts, etc. it sounds more plausible that: 1. Things came together by chance and have evolved into what it is now than 2. An invisible meta-physical dude/dudette that always existed created everything, down to the smallest process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 :agree: I am from a small town and do go to church, not because I believe or don't believe in god, but because it brings people together. Sex religion and politics are the big three I keep to myself. Having said that, we have Santa Clause to remind kids to be good or they will not get any gifts, and we have god for adults to remind them if they are not good they will not get into heaven, which if it is anything like bible camp for those of you that have been to one I will take my chances down below. If you really need god to remind you to be good, how good of a person are you to begin with? And Christmas isnt about religion anymore, it is a commercial holiday with almost no connection to Jesus anymore. Even though I don't beleive, I still celebrate Christmas as a family holiday that brings everyone together, and that in itself can't be bad. The same goes for Easter, Valentines, and St Patricks days and whatever else I may have missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 If you really need god to remind you to be good, how good of a person are you to begin with? I can agree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaekl Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It's just like the 'did you pack your lunch or rode the bus?' question and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Science is about how something happened not why. Evolution is 'how' and Creationism is one possible 'why' but focuses too much on 'how'. Mere humans do not have the capability to figure out or understand 'why', but we will spend countless hours debating, fighting, and even killing to protect our opinions or beliefs.*** Did Jeep just introduced the MJ or did it take years of design evolution. Some of the trials were successful on their own right and some just disappeared. Is there much difference? Religion pays a very important part of one's culture and it's sole purpose is to maintain some sense of a sane world. That is not governments responsibility. To think that any particular religion is the only one and was sent as a message is counterdictive. The general theory is the word was sent but only to a few or that some have distorted the word since they received it. That doesn't say much for the quality of 'the force' or is it just our created idea of 'the force'. Kinda like Santa Claus. Maybe the personification of a red suited elf is false but that doesn't mean the spirit doesn't exist. We can prove that theories are right or wrong but we can't be sure that the idea is true or not. Finally, any belief that allows every person, animal, or thing to have an equal right to exist and live as they wish without an impact on anyone else works for me and the bottom line is you will either find out or you won't. There is not much you can do about it except do the right thing, which brings us back to the beginning. ***Another example is 'Right to Life and Right to free Choice'. They are not opposites of the same issue, yet we have argued for years like we think the 'right decision' will be reached because half the people don't have a valid point. Imagine where we would be if all that energy was spent to prevent the need for abortion, but that would mean we would be smart enough to control ourselves. Yet we think we can figure out the creation of the universe. Com'on get real. It's just as your parents said, 'worry about your own actions' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 ........get into heaven, which if it is anything like bible camp......... I will take my chances down below. Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Atheist here. Brought up Protestant Christian, but around age 16 or so I realized I didn't believe any of it. Took me two more years to figure out exactly where I stood regarding religion, and have not seen any evidence strong enough to change my beliefs in the last 20 years since then. As much as I do not believe in deities, or more accurately, believe in the non existence of deities, I also recognize this is a personal belief, similar to faith. I accept that other people have their own beliefs that may or may not be the same as mine, and that is fine. Everybody has the right to believe what they wish to believe, and nobody has the right to push their beliefs onto anybody else. As such I have had very refreshing and even enlightening discussions with people of various religions. My ex wife and oldest daughter are United Methodist, my youngest daughter is at the moment, as far as I know, non denominational Christian. That's all fine with me. I don't push her, she goes to several churches with different friends, and will make up her own mind when she is mature enough to do so. I also have some personal theories about Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, but will not voice them in an open forum, as with a large enough audience, there is always at least one person that takes extreme offence to these theories, and I do not wish to start a flame fest. Not everyone is as accepting of other's beliefs as I am. And that's all I have to say for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenard Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I don’t believe in evolution simply because it’s impossible. I do believe that sometimes something’s do evolve and change, but if you start to think about it, to many things had to be absolutely perfect in order for this planet to sustain life, and for us humans to be able to walk, talk, breathe air, communicate, see and understand things. I don’t doubt at all that sometimes something happens by chance that had only 1 in a infinity chance of happening. but there is to much going on, to much happening that could of just happened, it grew that way, it evolved that way its impossible. I do believe in God and the Bible, do i follow it, well..no. I'm not going to jump up and down cry and call you names if you don't believe the way i do, i'm not going to try to convert you either, but this is how my brain thinks and understands it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 I don’t believe in evolution simply because it’s impossible. I do believe that sometimes something’s do evolve and change, but if you start to think about it, to many things had to be absolutely perfect in order for this planet to sustain life, and for us humans to be able to walk, talk, breathe air, communicate, see and understand things. I don’t doubt at all that sometimes something happens by chance that had only 1 in a infinity chance of happening. but there is to much going on, to much happening that could of just happened, it grew that way, it evolved that way its impossible. I do believe in God and the Bible, do i follow it, well..no. I'm not going to jump up and down cry and call you names if you don't believe the way i do, i'm not going to try to convert you either, but this is how my brain thinks and understands it. Just remember that all these gradual changes took place over an immense amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddzz1 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I don't believe in a God either. And if Religion is used as a way of reminding people to be good it isnt doing a very good job. Religion and religious beliefs have caused more war, death, and violence than anything else in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenard Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Religion and religious beliefs have caused more war, death, and violence than anything else in history. :agree: i can't argue that at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I can. throughout history the greedy or power-hungry have used religion as an excuse or motivator in order to wage war. the guys on the ground may think they're doing their god's work, but the war was all about gaining more power for the guys in charge. I'm a christian, but I view the creation story as a story that was written for the people of the time, who had very little knowledge about the universe. How could the people born thousands of years ago possibly grasp much beyond "God did it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990 Pioneer 4x4 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I can. throughout history the greedy or power-hungry have used religion as an excuse or motivator in order to wage war. the guys on the ground may think they're doing their god's work, but the war was all about gaining more power for the guys in charge. I'm a christian, but I view the creation story as a story that was written for the people of the time, who had very little knowledge about the universe. How could the people born thousands of years ago possibly grasp much beyond "God did it". Well said :clapping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 :agree: and we have god for adults to remind them if they are not good they will not get into heaven, i chose this single sentence from this quote as the saddest, but most of it was to me. Ephesians 2:8 (King James Version) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: way too common a misconception that it is the works you do on earth that get you to heaven, oh i'm a good person, i didn't kill anyone, i'm fine. but the bible is clear there's only one way, if we relied on our own "good behavior" heaven would be empty. oh, creation :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akamcbird Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 wow... interested to see how far this goes and does it mater more how we got here or just that we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 wow... interested to see how far this goes and does it mater more how we got here or just that we are? My curiosity wants to know both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Automan2164 Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I take a simple belief. I believe in a "Higher Power" Be it a god, alah, jesus, the creator of the MJ... :thumbsup: There is a definition for what I am. Some one told me long ago. A person who believes in a higher power, but doesn't know what. There is a description for that. I believe we had to have been created from something. I believe in evolution. But I believe it had to start with a seed. The seed was created, evolution took it from there. ;) I loose myself sometimes thinking about "creation" if god created us, what created god? If that created god, what created that? Where does it end? How did the universe come to be, and what created the universe? How did what created the universe come to be? Space-time-and whatnot had to come from something, but where did it start? Where does it end? Eventually there HAS to be an end, but if there was, only another question as to where that began. Rob L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think Creation doesn't belong in science class because it's not science. :nanner: I think this discussion does not belong on this forum, and if it gets AT ALL out of hand it will not BE on this forum. Pete has already posted, so I guess he's not overly alarmed ... yet. I have been on enough other forums to know that such discussions usually end up with one view insulting the opposing view. Let's not have that happen here. As to the original poster -- you asked a question. I respectfully suggest that you now chill out and allow people to answer rather than jumping in to argue with other people's views. There is no more certain way to NOT get your question answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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