It's official

[mjdoa]

Well.looks like I still have a job,for a while anyway.

Evidently you all are right,they apparently will be

downsizing to some degree.

I'm sure a lot of smaller dealerships will be closed.

I see one immediate effect so far.

Manufacturing is going to stop Monday for

30 to 60 days.

Can't wait to see the backorders now.

It's already been bad for 6 months,a lot of

suppliers had cut Chrysler off.

We've had stuff like oil and oil filters on backorder,,

and I see that getting lots worse before it

gets better.

That is all.

[vaquaro]

Unions take the control of the business owners and managers away. The business management or owners should be the ones to say what benefits the employees are entitled to, how much pay they are entitled to, what vacation time they get, etc, etc... Unions control all of that kind of stuff, forcing companies to pay millions of dollars that they really can not afford or should not be paying. Unions have been the death of many businesses over the years. A union is nothing but pure evil that should not exist. Just because you perform the same job as me does not mean that you deserve the same pay as me. I may be way more efficient than you, have more experience than you, but in a union, the employer is going to have to pay what the union says regardless of whether the person is really worth it or not. There are a lot of auto workers that are about to be out of jobs soon, and a big part of the reason is the unwillingness of the unions to make concessions and help out...so now their people are going to be in the street.

 

:cheers:

So let me get this straight :hmm: your saying that management designed and produced product consumers really wanted to buy as well as franchising dealers with only the highest ethical standards to service those valuable consumers .BUT , those greedy union workers caused the whole thing to collapse ? give your head a shake ,have you forgotten the Sub Prime Morgage scams started this entire slide into this abyss were currently trying to survive . ....Gord- Teamsters Loc. 31

[TNT]

Unions take the control of the business owners and managers away. The business management or owners should be the ones to say what benefits the employees are entitled to, how much pay they are entitled to, what vacation time they get, etc, etc... Unions control all of that kind of stuff, forcing companies to pay millions of dollars that they really can not afford or should not be paying. Unions have been the death of many businesses over the years. A union is nothing but pure evil that should not exist. Just because you perform the same job as me does not mean that you deserve the same pay as me. I may be way more efficient than you, have more experience than you, but in a union, the employer is going to have to pay what the union says regardless of whether the person is really worth it or not. There are a lot of auto workers that are about to be out of jobs soon, and a big part of the reason is the unwillingness of the unions to make concessions and help out...so now their people are going to be in the street.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I see you have never worked for a union. You also must believe in the screw the working man therory some management has. I worked at a union shop and I was given raises by my employer above the union raises I mad $2.00 over scale due to my experence. When they try to fire you for a bogus reason. The union has your back.It's the CEO's who need the payroll cuts. I was fired for taling off 1 day when my dad died and the employee handbook said I was allowed 3 days off. Had this have been a union dealer this would have never happened.

 

Unions are good for the average people it's the greedy CEO's with their high pay and bonuses that has caused the problems. The owner at the dealership that fired me lived in a 3.5 million home that was paid for and a vacation home in Florida that was also paid for. He was given the business 2 years earlier and was living in an apartment before that. We were told the business didn't make a profit so no one was given any raises for 2 years. He did buy 3 new Harleys thou...

 

I am 100% for Unions.

[BLHTAZ]

No...I have never worked for a union because I refuse to support such a horrible thing. I believe that an employer should have the right to hire and fire at their discretion, and not have their reasoning scrutinized. The employer should have full control of how his business is run and who gets paid how much...period. If a company has a handbook, and it states that you are allowed a certain amount of time off for certain reasons, and you get fired unjustly (as you did TNT), then a grievance should be filed with the labor board, and the termination would likely be reversed. I have seen that happen. There is no need for a union to "have your back" over something like that. I have looked for good reasons to believe in unions, but to this day have still not found any.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I think we are getting a little off topic here...sorry... :doh:

[gogetemturbo]

As everyone can see, there are a lot of opinions on this subject. All I know is that I'm going to go have a talk with my boss to see about stocking up on some of the common "dealer only" items before we get stuck in the backorder craze.

 

I work for an offroad shop and we use a large amount of aftermarket parts, but we are a full service shop. So we use a good amount of factory parts as well. Some parts are available aftermarket through companies like Crown or Omix-Ada, but not all. Essentially, for the last 30 some odd years, we have been trying to steal the business away from Dealer service. It's getting harder and harder to cut our slice of the pie from companies like 4 wheel parts and from Dealerships. The only thing I can see that might be a good thing for shops like mine are that more people will want to repair their vehicle versus replacing it.

 

Really, we can sit here and debate on what will happen until we are blue in the face. No one truly knows exactly what will happen. There are so many possibilities that it's frustrating. All we can do is hold on and hope for the best. Kind of like a vehicle roll over. Wait until the dust settles and build the rig back up.

 

I'll step off my soap box now.

 

--Jake

[jpdocdave]

No...I have never worked for a union because I refuse to support such a horrible thing. I believe that an employer should have the right to hire and fire at their discretion, and not have their reasoning scrutinized. The employer should have full control of how his business is run and who gets paid how much...period. If a company has a handbook, and it states that you are allowed a certain amount of time off for certain reasons, and you get fired unjustly (as you did TNT), then a grievance should be filed with the labor board, and the termination would likely be reversed. I have seen that happen. There is no need for a union to "have your back" over something like that. I have looked for good reasons to believe in unions, but to this day have still not found any.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I think we are getting a little off topic here...sorry... :doh:

 

i'm fairly nuetral, never worked for a union, and i'm not really big on a lot of union stuff though.

 

but, having his termination reversed is a joke, even if he managed to have labor boards or state whoever reverse the firing, what would his job life be like? not really a viable option.

[jeepdoggydogB]

Yes alot fewer Dealerships is a good thing, if you are a manufacturer.

Unfortunately, the ones to go will be the smaller ones( many family owned

for generations) who actually gave a rat's butt about the customer. We'll be

left with the "supermarket" dealers who sell everything at one or more of their

lots.

The unions have given up alot the last several decades, and it has been a trade-off.

Fewer workers being more productive and efficient, but receiving higher pay in return.

We wouldn't have the standard of living we enjoy here without them. Otherwise,

companies would hire as many immigrants as possible for $4/hr, just look at the meat packing industry.

There are good and bad points to both sides, but in the end IMHO, those of us left working will foot the bill.

Out where I live we are already seeing this, the Ford dealer here in Vallejo closed a few months back, that family had been in business for 60 years! Our Chrysler Jeep Dealer sold becuase the son of the original owner had health issues. Heck we bought our 1960 rambler wagon from his dad when it was an AMC dealer, hated to see that family leave.

 

Where I work here in Concord, CA Fiztpatrick Chevrolet is closing after almost 70 years in the business. :(

[Cheech]

The UAW and CAW (here in Canada) are a huge contributing factor to the state of these auto companies. I completly agree with BLHTAZ, the company should be allowed to control the direction of their business, not be manipulated by the union. In today's society there is zero need for a union, there are plenty of labour boards and tribunals designed to resolve disputes between employer and employee. When people used to work in coal mines and other dangerous and terrible working conditions for only a few dollars a day, the union became popular and in such instances it was needed. Today things are different and the union is only concerned about how much money it can get for its employees with no care for the company who is employing these people.

The Honda and Toyota factories up here are an excellent example of good business practices in action. The wages they pay are a little lower than the others, but they manage to keep the union out by offering other incentives that would otherwise be taken away or not offered if the union existed in their factories. I know many people who work there and they love it. The one Honda factory has Hockey rinks, fitness facilities, free baby sitting services, etc, all right on site. All these perks would most likely be lost if the CAW came in. All these extras may cost the company a few bucks, but it all comes down to keeping the employee happy and a happy worker is a good worker. By spending a bit of cash they keep a loyal workforce and can run their company as they wish.

[TNT]

No...I have never worked for a union because I refuse to support such a horrible thing. I believe that an employer should have the right to hire and fire at their discretion, and not have their reasoning scrutinized. The employer should have full control of how his business is run and who gets paid how much...period. If a company has a handbook, and it states that you are allowed a certain amount of time off for certain reasons, and you get fired unjustly (as you did TNT), then a grievance should be filed with the labor board, and the termination would likely be reversed. I have seen that happen. There is no need for a union to "have your back" over something like that. I have looked for good reasons to believe in unions, but to this day have still not found any.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I think we are getting a little off topic here...sorry... :doh:

 

A company handbook is rules for you. Look close and you will find the clause that means it doesn't apply to them. The labor board can't you help either.

 

Only a union can help.

 

It's not the unions that cause the failure, this it's the bigwigs at the top of the food chain that are paid more then 30 to 80 or more line employees make in a year. When you have offices full of them companys fail. Thats not counting expense accounts bonuses and company jets....

 

Chrysler deserved to fail as do the other auto makers. The bigwigs did it to themselves.

They are clueless about how the company should be run and who to take care of.

 

It's to bad the little guys building the cars and trucks are the ones to suffer instead of the company taking care of them.

 

My next car will be European. I want a car that is well built. Even Japan builds better cars then us.

[Cheech]

Just another thought....In my opinion the Fiat purchase is not bad for Chrysler. To say that what works in Europe will not work in NA is not completly true. Fiat will bring its expertise in building small fuel efficient cars to the Chrysler showrooms. With the price of fuel always going up (which it will again, once things straighten around) the demand for more efficient vehicles will only increase. Here in Canada, the Corolla and Civic are usually the 2 best selling vehicles annually. Whether people like it or not, they are sooner or later going to have to trade in the Suburban or Crown Vic for something more economical. The Europeans have been dealing with expensive fuel for a long time and have designed vehicles that use as little as possible. I think that letting Fiat build cars under the Chrysler name will help by giving them a competive product in the compact auto segment.

[brdhntr]

i know how we can fix this here little problem we got going. if we each chip in, we can buy jeep from chrysler at fire sale prices. then we all go to work at the plant and dealerships since we've all taken apart our jeeps enough to know what's going on. we bring back the 4.0 and ditch all models that are not trail rated. we pop dana 44's or better on all trucks. nothing gets out the door unless it has 4wd and an actual shift lever to put it in 4wd. we skip all the dummy lights since the end up not working anyway and go to a simply instrument cluster. we put a dial in to adjust the speedo for tire and gearing changes. most importantly, we save a ton of money by ditching the new car warranty. we all know that if it says jeep, you should know how to fix it yourself. we bring back the jeepster as a retro vehicle and bring back the xj, fsj, and mj.

 

then we add the jeep club membership (price to be determined) as a requirement with yearly renewals. i think we can all agree that owning a jeep is a privelage and experience that we could charge for. forget this 0% financing. if you want one, you'll pay what we ask. if you want to borrow the money to buy one, it's gona cost you something. if you don't like paying interest and want 0%, go ask your family for the money. we don't give it away for free. then we come out with an ad campaign that promotes jeep as the most capable vehicle off the line. let everyone know that, if they don't buy jeep, not to call any of us jeepers when they're stuck in the mud/sand/snow/etc.

 

then we could save some bucks by getting rid of airbags and antilock brakes. it's a jeep, drive it like a jeep. if you need the security of an airbag, drive something else. the smallest tire on any jeep will be a 31". everyone will come with a snorkel kit and wash out interior.

 

so all that's left is to split the bucks we're making. it's my idea so i get 50%. the rest of you can fight over the remaining 50%. :chillin:

[vaquaro]

No...I have never worked for a union because I refuse to support such a horrible thing. I believe that an employer should have the right to hire and fire at their discretion, and not have their reasoning scrutinized. The employer should have full control of how his business is run and who gets paid how much...period. If a company has a handbook, and it states that you are allowed a certain amount of time off for certain reasons, and you get fired unjustly (as you did TNT), then a grievance should be filed with the labor board, and the termination would likely be reversed. I have seen that happen. There is no need for a union to "have your back" over something like that. I have looked for good reasons to believe in unions, but to this day have still not found any.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I think we are getting a little off topic here...sorry... :doh:

JEEEZE ......I bet you really miss the good old days when slavery was legal . I now understand your avatar , more than a little spun out I'd say . You might take note of the fact Henry Ford promoted the first unions so the people who built his cars could afford to buy them ! But hey , don't let the facts get in the way of what you choose to believe . Interesting Ford isn't looking for government handouts . I'm really trying to see your point of view , but I can't seem to get my head that far up my own a$$ .....

[chicofuentes0224]

i know how we can fix this here little problem we got going. if we each chip in, we can buy jeep from chrysler at fire sale prices. then we all go to work at the plant and dealerships since we've all taken apart our jeeps enough to know what's going on. we bring back the 4.0 and ditch all models that are not trail rated. we pop dana 44's or better on all trucks. nothing gets out the door unless it has 4wd and an actual shift lever to put it in 4wd. we skip all the dummy lights since the end up not working anyway and go to a simply instrument cluster. we put a dial in to adjust the speedo for tire and gearing changes. most importantly, we save a ton of money by ditching the new car warranty. we all know that if it says jeep, you should know how to fix it yourself. we bring back the jeepster as a retro vehicle and bring back the xj, fsj, and mj.

 

then we add the jeep club membership (price to be determined) as a requirement with yearly renewals. i think we can all agree that owning a jeep is a privelage and experience that we could charge for. forget this 0% financing. if you want one, you'll pay what we ask. if you want to borrow the money to buy one, it's gona cost you something. if you don't like paying interest and want 0%, go ask your family for the money. we don't give it away for free. then we come out with an ad campaign that promotes jeep as the most capable vehicle off the line. let everyone know that, if they don't buy jeep, not to call any of us jeepers when they're stuck in the mud/sand/snow/etc.

 

then we could save some bucks by getting rid of airbags and antilock brakes. it's a jeep, drive it like a jeep. if you need the security of an airbag, drive something else. the smallest tire on any jeep will be a 31". everyone will come with a snorkel kit and wash out interior.

 

so all that's left is to split the bucks we're making. it's my idea so i get 50%. the rest of you can fight over the remaining 50%. :chillin:

 

:yes:

[jpdocdave]

:agree:

[jeepmud13]

how does it make sense for a union to price itself out of a job. if the union does that then there are no jobs for the union to represent. so no the union is asking for fair wages. i will agree that sometimes the union protects somebody who should get fired but there are a lot more times that the union has protected a worker who deserves to keep their job. do you think the us car companies have a problem is because they have 3 to 4 companies making the same car just a different name on it? they have to start making difernt models or they have to start to weed them out

[ComancheKid45]

i know how we can fix this here little problem we got going. if we each chip in, we can buy jeep from chrysler at fire sale prices. then we all go to work at the plant and dealerships since we've all taken apart our jeeps enough to know what's going on. we bring back the 4.0 and ditch all models that are not trail rated. we pop dana 44's or better on all trucks. nothing gets out the door unless it has 4wd and an actual shift lever to put it in 4wd. we skip all the dummy lights since the end up not working anyway and go to a simply instrument cluster. we put a dial in to adjust the speedo for tire and gearing changes. most importantly, we save a ton of money by ditching the new car warranty. we all know that if it says jeep, you should know how to fix it yourself. we bring back the jeepster as a retro vehicle and bring back the xj, fsj, and mj.

 

then we add the jeep club membership (price to be determined) as a requirement with yearly renewals. i think we can all agree that owning a jeep is a privelage and experience that we could charge for. forget this 0% financing. if you want one, you'll pay what we ask. if you want to borrow the money to buy one, it's gona cost you something. if you don't like paying interest and want 0%, go ask your family for the money. we don't give it away for free. then we come out with an ad campaign that promotes jeep as the most capable vehicle off the line. let everyone know that, if they don't buy jeep, not to call any of us jeepers when they're stuck in the mud/sand/snow/etc.

 

then we could save some bucks by getting rid of airbags and antilock brakes. it's a jeep, drive it like a jeep. if you need the security of an airbag, drive something else. the smallest tire on any jeep will be a 31". everyone will come with a snorkel kit and wash out interior.

 

so all that's left is to split the bucks we're making. it's my idea so i get 50%. the rest of you can fight over the remaining 50%. :chillin:

 

:yes:

 

 

 

Best thing ive heard for a long time! I'm in!

[BLHTAZ]

No...I have never worked for a union because I refuse to support such a horrible thing. I believe that an employer should have the right to hire and fire at their discretion, and not have their reasoning scrutinized. The employer should have full control of how his business is run and who gets paid how much...period. If a company has a handbook, and it states that you are allowed a certain amount of time off for certain reasons, and you get fired unjustly (as you did TNT), then a grievance should be filed with the labor board, and the termination would likely be reversed. I have seen that happen. There is no need for a union to "have your back" over something like that. I have looked for good reasons to believe in unions, but to this day have still not found any.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I think we are getting a little off topic here...sorry... :doh:

JEEEZE ......I bet you really miss the good old days when slavery was legal . I now understand your avatar , more than a little spun out I'd say . You might take note of the fact Henry Ford promoted the first unions so the people who built his cars could afford to buy them ! But hey , don't let the facts get in the way of what you choose to believe . Interesting Ford isn't looking for government handouts . I'm really trying to see your point of view , but I can't seem to get my head that far up my own a$$ .....

 

If you were close enough, I would stick my foot up your @$$. What an idiot... :shake:

[BPB]

As a person that grew up in a union household I may be a little biased. Unions are a good thing. They played a big roll in making a middle class by forcing companies to pay enough for people to comfortably support their families. Even today, unions have their rolls in the work place. I know that my mom, who is a teacher, was having issues with her principal at school, the only person that she could turn to was her union rep, who was able to help solve the problem.

 

Where unions start loosing their effectiveness is when they get greedy. In the same way that the corporate bigwigs do. They demand higher wadges then what is fair, they also demand outrageous benefits. Unions need to be more in tuned to the health of their business, if lower pay is necessary to keep a company afloat then they should ok it. It is better to have work at a lower rate then be completely out of a job. It isn't the companies fault that american families stretch their budgets to the max.

[Pete M]

Unions are another of those never ending arguments since they have both good points and bad points and there are fierce supporters on both sides of the issue. I took a labor-relations class. Boy was that a fun time. :shake: Learned a lot though. :D

[Geonovast]

WTF is this 'job' I keep reading about?

[vaquaro]

Unions are another of those never ending arguments since they have both good points and bad points and there are fierce supporters on both sides of the issue. I took a labor-relations class. Boy was that a fun time. :shake: Learned a lot though. :D

:agree:

[vaquaro]

No...I have never worked for a union because I refuse to support such a horrible thing. I believe that an employer should have the right to hire and fire at their discretion, and not have their reasoning scrutinized. The employer should have full control of how his business is run and who gets paid how much...period. If a company has a handbook, and it states that you are allowed a certain amount of time off for certain reasons, and you get fired unjustly (as you did TNT), then a grievance should be filed with the labor board, and the termination would likely be reversed. I have seen that happen. There is no need for a union to "have your back" over something like that. I have looked for good reasons to believe in unions, but to this day have still not found any.

 

:cheers:

 

 

I think we are getting a little off topic here...sorry... :doh:

JEEEZE ......I bet you really miss the good old days when slavery was legal . I now understand your avatar , more than a little spun out I'd say . You might take note of the fact Henry Ford promoted the first unions so the people who built his cars could afford to buy them ! But hey , don't let the facts get in the way of what you choose to believe . Interesting Ford isn't looking for government handouts . I'm really trying to see your point of view , but I can't seem to get my head that far up my own a$$ .....

 

If you were close enough, I would stick my foot up your @$$. What an idiot... :shake:

:no: