Pete M

Sorry, but that can't be done. If you had an AX-15, you could use a Dakota bellhousing to mount it up to the 2.5L (at one point in time the Daks used both the AX-15 and 2.5L together), but the 4.0L trans in 88 was the Peugeot and no such adapter bellhousing exists. The 4.0L and 2.5L have different bolt patterns for their bellhousings. Jeep on! --Pete

What Jeep *needs* to do is to break out the old blueprints and build me a brand new MJ made from all stainless steel. Stupid rust. :cry: Jeep on! --Pete

...and the MJ was introduced in 85 as an 86 model. I don't recommend using the 2.8L V6 as a comparison to ANYTHING else out there. Even the 2.5L is a waaaay better engine. Jeep on! --Pete

Don't worry, I *am* swapping in whole axle assemblies. There are three things I would GLADLY pay a professional to do; rebuild an automatic, welding parts on which I'm staking my life, setting up gears. And I'd never ever pay to have a stock ratio installed when axles are out there for $100 or less. It just doesn't make any sense to do it any other way. I'll be snagging a 3.55/non-CAD/297-joint front axle for my newest baby. The WJ arms may have to wait though, as the pull-your-part 'yard near me won't have anything that new. Out of curiousity though, did the WJ go to low-pinion like the XJ in 00 or 01 or whatever year it was? Jeep on! --Pete

In my truck, that's where the heat comes through. :D Jeep on! --Pete

Dang, A/C and floors! Wow! :D Jeep on! --pete

Oh yeah, and as soon as it's warm enough outside to paint, the rims are getting scrubbed down and hit with some black paint. I couldn't imagine it any other way. :D Jeep on! --Pete

I'll wait to see how bad it is before doing anything, but I've contemplated cutting the control arm for clearance. But I could also go for the ZJ or WJ or whatever Jeep it is that has arms that are bent for clearance already. It's only beneficial on a near stock rig, but that's what I've got. :D Jeep on! --Pete

Is there a tag on it anywhere? Like this? Jeep on! --Pete

I plan on eventually upgrading to a Durango box for my 88. Jeep on! --Pete

I'd swap the 4.10s from my 86 over if it wasn't for the amount of effort that that particular front end woud need to be up to snuff. But then I guarantee the 86 couldn't move under it's own power with anything less than 4.10s. :roll: I paid an exorbitant amount for the Dana 44 (didn't know any better at the time) and since I'll never be able to recoup the cost, I've decided that I'll just keep it forever and just reuse it in my various MJs over the years. :D Plus 3.55 XJ front axles are EVERYWHERE right? :D Maybe I'll swap the rear over first and decide if it's enough. If not, then at least I didn't just buy a 3.55 front axle first. I liked the 88 when I upgraded to this 3.55 D-44 from the 3.07s. It had 30" tires at the time, so I'm hoping that it'll be somewhat close to that amount of fun with this new truck. The engine feels pretty darn peppy for 210k miles. Jeep on! --Pete

They look GREAT!! 8) Much better than my 88 *ever* did back when it wore 30s. Static tests indicate that it's *real* close to rubbing on the control arms and will probably touch a bit when manuvering in a parking lot. I won't know for a couple months though, as the truck isn't driveable until I fix the slave cylinder. But by the time it's driveable, I will have swapped in 3.55 geared axles, so I can't do any testing with the stock 3.07s. Oh well. :D I plan to add a second main leaf to the packs (just like I did on the 88 ) and then add maybe an inch spacer to the front just so it matches the rear. Jeep on! --Pete

Do you still have the cat? A clogged cat can cause power issues. Jeep on! --Pete

My 5.9L Dakota R/T is absolutely wicked fast, but averages 10-11 mpg. It's sort of a "pay to play" type of deal. :D The perfect compromise between your 2 choices would be an XJ of course. Jeep on! --Pete

I put together this pile of info a few years ago but until now it was always a word document. I figured now's as good a time as any to see if it'll fit on a forum. :D It's not complete though. I'm still waiting for someone to try it and report back with the details and a whole mess of photos. Jeep on! --Pete Swapping out a 2.5L Jeep engine for a 60* Chevy V6 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ First, I feel it’s my responsibility to start off with all the negatives and typical nay-say that would generally be brought forth if this were to be asked on a open forum/message board. -It would be *infinitely* easier and probably more cost effective to sell the Jeep and buy another with the 4.0L. -Swapping engines, even among identical blocks, is a HUGE undertaking. They always require more time and money than planned. And always *expect* surprises! -you’ll likely need parts from both a Chevy car and/or a Jeep XJ/MJ equipped with the 2.8L -Another option is that you could build up the 2.5L. Mopar Performance carries hop-up parts as does Clifford’s. You're not going to get v8 power out of it, but v6 numbers are attainable. -The state you live in might require all of the proper smog equipment to be there at the next inspection. If all that still hasn’t scared you out of the project, then let’s continue with the facts, rumors, hearsay, and theories I’ve sought out and collected concerning swapping the Jeep 2.5L I4 for a Chevy V6. The bellhousing-to-engine bolt patterns are supposedly identical between the 2.5L I4 and the 2.8L v6. (They share transmissions) The 2.8L v6 is really a Chevy 60* v6 engine. This means that the 2.5L shares a bolt pattern with the 2.8/3.1/3.4 family of Chevy engines. The engine mounting locations are supposedly identical between the 2.5L I4 and the 2.8L v6. The 2.8L v6 is really a Chevy 60* v6 engine. This means that the 2.5L shares engine-mount locations with the 2.8/3.1/3.4 family of Chevy engines. These are generally the hardest steps of any custom engine installation and they’re already finished for you. There is one caveat though. I’ve heard that both the AX-5 and the T-5 were used in early Jeeps. You’ll need to know which you have. There might be differences. (and there might not, I’m still working on that.) Check out car-part.com to gauge costs for the new engine. They don't have every junkyard in the world, but they have a whole lot and you might get lucky and find one near you. When using car-part, make sure you search for different years and cars. Car-part organizes each search by EXACT matches. Below is a breakdown I did a while back of interchangeability in Chevy engine years as sorted using car-part.com. The search was for a Camaro v6 engine of every year from ‘85 to ‘95. The Firebird's results should be the same. The S-10 and Blazer will be a tad different because they went directly from the 2.8L to the 4.3L somewhere in the early ‘90s. (The 4.3L is a 90* block and that’s a completely different family of engines). 93-95 - 3.4L 91-92 - 3.1L 90 - 3.1L 89-90 - 2.8L 88-89 - 2.8L 87 - 2.8L 85-86 - 2.8L Unfortunately Car-part doesn't say *WHY* the years (of same engine size) are different from each other. If you had a '90 Camaro and wanted a direct swap of the *entire* engine assembly, then '90 is the only year. The change could be a major as adding fuel injection or as minor as an emissions tweak. (i.e. a search for just the engine block reveals that the '90 - '92 are indeed interchangeable blocks.) I also found a website that specializes in the above push-rod engines. http://www.60degreev6.com/ The engine has to be from a rear-wheel drive vehicle. Some of the front-wheel-drive versions of the 60 degree engines are internally identical to the rear-wheel drive, but they have different locations for the engine mounts, oil filter, water pumps etc. Newer fwd 60* v6 engines are overhead cam and are VERY different. The following items would be needed if you were replacing a 2.8L engine, so I’m assuming they’ll be also needed for replacing the 2.5L. You’ll need to acquire an electric fuel pump and likely an oil pressure cut-off switch for said pump. The 3.1/3.4 blocks apparently don’t have any provisions for a mechanically driven pump. You’ll need to modify or replace the flywheel (which will be externally balanced) with a neutrally balanced one suitable for use with the internally balanced 3.1/3.4L. I don’t know if the flywheel from the 2.5L would bolt to a 3.1/3.4, nor am I certain that a flywheel from a 3.1/3.4 will work with your clutch. Both propositions might work. I’ve heard from two sources that 2.8Ls found in early ‘90s S-10s are internally balanced and that means a flywheel from one should fit the bill. Or you could snag a flywheel from an externally balanced 2.8L engine. It’s a simple matter to get it neutrally balanced at a machine/automotive shop. There is a solution, but I’m not positive which it is. Similar problems exist with an auto tranny’s flexplate. There is a concern with which flywheel works with which starter. I do know that a Jeep 2.8L flywheel (neutrally balanced) will bolt to a 3.4L engine and function with the 2.8L’s starter. The theory is that, since the 2.5L and 2.8L Jeeps used the same tranny with the same bellhousing bolt-patterns, it’s reasonable to assume that the starters are also identical. My parts manual only goes back to 87, so I can’t verify that myself. At the very least, you should be able to use a starter for a 2.8L engine. I found an old post online from a guy that swapped in a 2.8L from a Jeep into his 2.5L equipped XJ and he didn’t mention any problems with the starter. I haven’t been able to get a hold of him though, so I can’t ask him any questions. Those replacing a 2.8L will only need the block/heads etc., but when replacing a 2.5L, you’ll need a complete engine (or piece together a complete engine) from the belts to the wire harness. There’s always a concern with putting more power through a stock tranny. Advance adapters sells kits that’ll bolt a 4.3L up to the AX-5 tranny, and that engine makes more ponies than any stock 3.4L, so I’m quite confident that this trans will do fine under responsible driving. (NO 4wd burnouts! ;-) You could make your life a bit less complicated by being a bit less greedy on horsepower. Go for the latest year carbureted engine or swap the entire carb, harness, and accessories from a 2.8L Jeep engine onto your newer Chevy block. I’ve heard that the Jeep wire harnesses from the 2.8 and 2.5 are very similar and may even interchange at the firewall. Some of your sending units might need to be changed to the correct year in order for the gauges to all work properly. Not a big deal, but that’s why I’d try to get a gauge cluster from a 2.8L Jeep (one with all the gauges if your current Jeep is cursed with the idiot lights) just in case. Don’t pay for it until your sure you’ll need it (unless you’re upgrading), but also don’t pass up a free or next-to-nothing one either. Here is what I would do: -Find a donor 2.8L engine from a Jeep Cherokee or Comanche. The cheaper the better. A locked-up/frozen engine would be fine. The closer the vintage is to your year Jeep, the better. Buy a whole cheap Jeep if you’d like. It’d be a spare parts bonanza! I bought an entire ’78 Bronco for cheaper than the axles would have been from a junkyard. And now I’m selling off the extra parts and will make up more than the original cost! -Get basically the entire 2.8L engine compartment, and I mean EVERYTHING you can that touches the engine, including the starter. You may also need parts of the body wire harness and the gauge cluster. -You’ll also need the exhaust. At least from the engine to the catalytic converter. Both Jeeps had a single exhaust pipe from the cat back, but you’ll need the headers and Y-pipe from the Jeep v6. -Find your donor Chevy engine 3.1/3.4/or later year 2.8. You’ll need only the engine itself. All the accessories (water pump, alternator, maybe even stuff like the valve covers) will be coming from the 2.8L. -You’ll also need the engine’s half of the motor mounts from one of these blocks. -Go through all of your parts thoroughly. Treat it to an engine rebuild if you want. There’s no hurry if your Jeep still works as is. If any accessories from the 2.8 look questionable, buy a new part. You can buy all new/rebuilt parts if you want. The main reason for acquiring the whole Jeep engine is so you can see where all the wires, vacuum lines etc. go and you’d have every one of the necessary brackets. I personally think that this would make life a lot easier. -Now merge the two engine assemblies together as best you can (for it being out of the Jeep). -I would never think of using the woeful Jeep carbs. Get an aftermarket one. You could even get an aftermarket intake manifold (like Edelbrock) and run a small 4 barrel. -When your new engine is ready, start work on removing the old engine from the Jeep. Take note as to where *everything* goes and came from. I’ve never done an engine swap, but I do know that attention to the details will make life easier. You never know what you’ll come across or have to replace or, at the very least, you might need to retain for your new engine. For my ’88 Comanche project (made it a 4x4 using Bronco axles and a TJ trans/t-case), I wrote up a spreadsheet and listed everything, step-by-step. That way I could continually update it as I went along. The reasons why I would do it this way are thus: The Jeep 2.8L and older Chevy 2.8L engines are notoriously weak both in horsepower and in longevity (although I have a 170K+ mile 2.8 in my ’86 and it runs okay. No horsepower though.) This is due to poor build standards and a poor design. The later year 2.8s and the 3.1s and 3.4s had an internal redesign with larger oiling passages etc. and are great engines. But they use fuel injection systems and I don’t like the idea of splicing wires till the cows come home. It isn’t exactly “hard” per-se, but it is monotonous, laborious, and you must be meticulous in the details. The Jeep 2.8L and 2.5L setups should be similar enough as to greatly ease the crossover work. I haven’t touched the subject of emissions controls here as I have no idea what passes for legal in your neck of the woods. I live in Michigan and just about anything goes here. :-) That’s about as far as I can take you. I haven’t done the swap myself, nor have I ever even seen a 2.5L up close. I have an ’86 2.8L, a an ’88 4.0L and shop manuals from ’86, ’89, and ’91. I highly recommend getting a shop manual for your Jeep. They are kinda hard to find for the older years (try eBay) and pre-87 versions are mucho inferior to the later ones, but 87+ don't cover the 2.8L at all. Get one that’s closest to your Jeep’s year. Another alternative is the alldata.com site. It’s like having a shop/parts manual online. They cost $25 a year for a subscription ($15 to renew and $15 for each additional vehicle). I have subscriptions for my parents’ minivan, my sister’s TJ and my Dakota. I’d probably have one for my Jeeps to if I didn’t already own three shop manuals and a parts manual. It’s amazing what you’ll learn when you do it yourself. I had done nothing like my project before. It’s been a challenge sometimes (especially adapting those Ford axles) but fun none the less. Now I’m real close to having “my own” rig to take out on the trails. No more being a passenger in someone else’s’! Here are some links that might prove useful: http://www.off-road.com/jeep/cherokee/x ... 4swap.html http://www.60degreev6.com/ http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=42278 http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showth ... light=3.4L http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Pro ... ect_XJ.htm Remember though, it’s always physically and monetarily easier to just sell it and buy a new Jeep, but you won’t learn anything new from that and if you’re as attached to yours as I am to mine, you couldn’t do that anyway. ;-) Jeep on! --Pete

I have (had?) a potential buyer for my tires (trying to raise funds for my new MJ project) and he's shying away due to BFG being absolutely insane. The BFG website lists a 7" rim as the widest for the 235, but a 8.5" for the 30" even though there's only like a 1/4" difference between the two. And of course, he has an 8" rim. So has anyone mounted 235s on the apparantly monstrously huge 8" wide rim? Jeep on! --Pete

The rocking/sliding ones will put your head a couple inches or so closer to the ceiling. The NON-rocking/sliding ones are identical to MJ buckets (but you still need the MJ floor brackets from the bench). Avoid the power XJ seats unless you want a serious project. Jeep on! --Pete

There's also the chance that he's really really old and had his indicator on the whole time. :D Jeep on! --Pete

Also, don't forget about the "devil that you know" aspect. I know practically *everything* that there is to know about my 88, I know nothing about my new 90 and that's a new (and kinda scary) feeling to me. But then, the seller wasn't making ANY claims about reliability with a $300 rustbucket. :D Jeep on! --Pete

Best for the 4.0L has got to be the NV series, but they can be hard to find (TJs and XJs got different versions and the XJ are the ones you want). As CW said, the AX-15 is a great tranny too, just the NV trannys are newer and a bit stronger. Best for the 2.5/2.8/3.4 is the best condition AX-5 you can find. Or you can go to the effort of tracking down a Dakota 2.5L-to-AX-15 bellhousing and swap an AX-15 into your 86. Search over at pirate4x4.com for a post from the guy that figured out all the details on that. Or you can venture into the territory of Chevy transmissions. I don't know much about all of them, but I do know that the 2.8/3.4 does not need a CPS so you have a greater choice of transmissions. see advanceadapters.com for info on swapping chevy trannys. Jeep on! --Pete

Soooo, this particular forum was designed for finished projects and all... are you going to at least give us some specs on that beauty? :D :roll: Maybe fill us in on what all you did? Oh, and the link won't work for me. :( Lemme guess, all my questions are answered at the link. :( Jeep on! --Pete

Best trans for the 4.0L? Or best tans for the 2.5/2.8/3.4L? Jeep on! --Pete

The front axle is identical, your front drieshaft is easily swapable. The biggest downfall of your 86 is the 2.8, and that's easily fixed with a 3.4L and a better carb. What I'm trying to say is, more often than not the condition of the vehicle (drivetrain, wiring, rust, etc.) is the most important factor due to the ease of swapping and upgrading any MJ. If you want a stick, go get a stick. If you really must have a 4.0L, go get one. But be prepared to upgrade the gears in a 4.0L/stick. 3.07s SUCK. What do you truly want in the end? Jeep on! --Pete

If you drive a big enough RV, you wouldn't feel a thing. Jeep on! --Pete

Safety first! But even before a cage, I would spend my money on STRONG recovery attachment points front and rear. No matter how you build up the truck, you WILL get stuck someday and you do NOT want to be the guy who rips off his rear axle because he doesn't have a good tow point and the leaf spring breaks. The more capable your rig, the more stuck you will be and the harder the recovery becomes. I put custom bumpers on my 88 before I even finished the 4wd conversion. Jeep on! --Pete This guy had good front tow points, but just couldn't resist hitting the dunes before the rear bumper was done. And the leaf spring break happened AFTER the F-250 that had offered assistance used the Ford's ball hitch and the ball ripped off and hit the MJ.