3in suspension lift questions

[mattbuch96]

Down the road I will be installing Rusty’s 3in lift and 31x10.50r15 tires along with my Napier fender flares, along with the lift I plan to use a xj drop pitman arm, zj tie rod end upgrade, and xj drag link, and Chevy drop shackles.

 

My questions for you are is it necessary to get rough country’s fixed lower control arms or will do the Wj lower control arms be okay?

 

Is there any sway bar upgrades like a Zj part?

 

Thanks guys!

 

 

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[krustyballer16]

I never even used their control arms with that lift...

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[Pete M]

you should not use a drop pitman.  that changes your steering geometry for the worse.   if you draw imaginary lines through the attachment points of your track bag and drag link, they should be parrallel (the bars can have bends in them so the bars themselves need not be parallel, just the ends).  if you drop one without dropping the other, it'll induce bump-steer.  I used a 1" drop in my pitman arm because I also used a 1" drop track bar bracket.

 

WJ arms have been used for a 3" lift before.   there is some adjustment (but not a lot) where the lower control arm attaches to the body (uses these little U-shaped shims).

[mattbuch96]

you should not use a drop pitman.  that changes your steering geometry for the worse.   if you draw imaginary lines through the attachment points of your track bag and drag link, they should be parrallel (the bars can have bends in them so the bars themselves need not be parallel, just the ends).  if you drop one without dropping the other, it'll induce bump-steer.  I used a 1" drop in my pitman arm because I also used a 1" drop track bar bracket.
 
WJ arms have been used for a 3" lift before.   there is some adjustment (but not a lot) where the lower control arm attaches to the body (uses these little U-shaped shims).

Thanks for the input, I will not do anything with the drop pitman arm, on the side note, I don’t want to have rubbing on the control arms at full lock, do you think the wj control arms would be better than the rough country fixed control arms? Or vise versa?


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[Pete M]

WJ arms will cure the rub, but most round aftermarket arms do ok in that regard too.  stock arms aren't just straight, they have that little lip that catches the tire lugs.  

[JMO413]

When I put on my 4.5" it came with their lowers. They are very nice.

[Dzimm]

48 minutes ago, JMO413 said:

When I put on my 4.5" it came with their lowers. They are very nice.

Same for me, no rubbing with the Rusty's 4.5" kit and included lowers, that are of good quality.  I'd imagine it would be the same with a 3" kit.

 

[Darren]

For a 3" lift I'd use the WJ arms over budget priced aftermarket arms because cheap aftermarket control arms do not last.

[mattbuch96]

You don’t think the rough country fixed LCA won’t last?

[Darren]

OE parts are designed to last, Rusty's and Rough Country are designed to be affordable. I've ran a lot of Rubicon Express parts and their bushings were sh*t when it came to longevity, but at least they were rebuildable. OE control arms can easily last 200,000 miles, I don't believe there are any aftermarket options that can do that.

 

[Pete M]

the WJ arms are designed for a better ride too.  I mean, they came from the top of the line Jeep.  

[DesertRat1991]

On 2/10/2019 at 2:50 PM, mattbuch96 said:

 

Thanks for the input, I will not do anything with the drop pitman arm, on the side note, I don’t want to have rubbing on the control arms at full lock, do you think the wj control arms would be better than the rough country fixed control arms? Or vise versa?


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What wheels will you be running?   One of the advantages of aftermarket fender flares is the additional outboard tire coverage they provide.  The Napier flares are wider than stock, they stick out 3.25" inches from the body.  That means you have additional room to run wheels with increased negative offset which would alleviate rubbing on the control arms.  

[Smokeyyank]

I'd look for something other than Rustys or RC. Much better vendors out there for the same cost. A lot of your rubbing issues will be based on your backspacing. The WJ arms do have a "notch" to help alleviate it. I'd vote for WJ arms over any fixed, they're cheaper and will accomplish the same thing. Really only Long arms or adjustables are a true upgrade. 

[mattbuch96]

I'd look for something other than Rustys or RC. Much better vendors out there for the same cost. A lot of your rubbing issues will be based on your backspacing. The WJ arms do have a "notch" to help alleviate it. I'd vote for WJ arms over any fixed, they're cheaper and will accomplish the same thing. Really only Long arms or adjustables are a true upgrade. 

I like the price of the Rusty’s, what do you think about Rancho?


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[kook911]

Do you know what gears you have?

[mattbuch96]

Do you know what gears you have?

I believe either 3.55 or 4.10


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[Smokeyyank]

2 hours ago, mattbuch96 said:

 

 

I like the price of the Rusty’s, what do you think about Rancho?


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Rancho makes great stuff for soccer dads cruising to Starbucks in their JK. Not saying they make complete junk but I wouldnt give them a dime.

 

Look at iron rock, ironman4x4, Stinkyfab, tNt, dirtbound to name a few. All good shops that and make quality products. Yeah it cost more but they are dudes dedicated to the unibody platform. They wheels what they build. I've never bought anything from Rustys a few guys I know run their stuff and like it but most of what the intrawebs and bumping into to people has told me is they make junk. I did call them when I was building an XJ a few years ago and customer service was sub par. Called up Iron rock guys knew their $#!& and Ive never had an issue with anything of thiers. 

 

If price is really your deciding factor than I would junkyard lift it. You can easily get 3" from OEM parts from other vehicles. Upcountry coils and a spacer will get your 3 up front. Bastard pack leafs in the back or chevy shackles IIRC, get a good track bar ZJ tie rod as you got and you'll be good.  

[DesertRat1991]

+1 for IRO.  They offer life time warranty on control arms against bending or breaking, on-road or off-road:

 

https://www.ironrockoffroad.com/guarantee.html

[shelbyluvv]

Build your own lift. Do NOT buy cRusty's, IRO, RC, or Rocky Road. They all sell junk.

[Dzimm]

2 hours ago, shelbyluvv said:

Build your own lift. Do NOT buy cRusty's, IRO, RC, or Rocky Road. They all sell junk.

I'm just curious because I don't understand why everyone bashes the budget kits.  Have you actually had first hand experience with failures of these kits, and what failures did you experience? 

 

I've run both a Rusty's kit and a Rough Country kit for many miles and never had issues with either.  I don't wheel them hard so that may play into my success with them but they do get used regularly enough that I'd say they perform well enough off-road and on-road for a budget build.

 

This is strictly a curiosity thing, we really don't need another thread arguing about these kits. 

 

[shelbyluvv]

I'm just curious because I don't understand why everyone bashes the budget kits.  Have you actually had first hand experience with failures of these kits, and what failures did you experience? 

 

I've run both a Rusty's kit and a Rough Country kit for many miles and never had issues with either.  I don't wheel them hard so that may play into my success with them but they do get used regularly enough that I'd say they perform well enough off-road and on-road for a budget build.

 

This is strictly a curiosity thing, we really don't need another thread arguing about these kits. 

 

Had Crusty's on my WJ. Absolute garbage. Caused DW from the day I put it on. He blamed me for installing it wrong. It was his junk joints and track bar.

 

Had Rough Country on my XJ. Blew every bushing and broke a main leaf within a year.

 

I used Rocky Road on a different XJ. Everything fit like crap and the track bar snapped in a week. Blamed the installer.

 

Put a Iron Rock kit on my buddies XJ after I warned him not to. The joints all failed, twice, in a year.

 

Sure these kits all have warranties but they are guaranteed pieces of $π!+!

 

So to answer your question, yes I do have first hand knowledge of their garbage.

 

There is no such thing as a cheap quality lift. Yes Zone makes a very nice "budget" kit but it is missing a lot of things I consider mandatory with a lift.

 

For me, I ether build my own with a mix match of parts or I go with either BDS or Iron Man. They are pricey but they perform and last. There are reasons why Cab Fab, Kevin's, Iron Man and many others have started producing lift kits. The simple fact is everything out there was junk.

 

[Darren]

10 hours ago, Dzimm said:

I'm just curious because I don't understand why everyone bashes the budget kits.  Have you actually had first hand experience with failures of these kits, and what failures did you experience? 

 

I've ran, installed, repaired, handled, and removed parts from all the major aftermarket parts companies for Jeeps. You get what you pay for, especially when it comes to joints. A set of Rough Country control arms is $300 and a set of Currie arms is $700. Why is that? They do the same thing and even look the same. The difference is in the materials and build quality. 20,000 miles and 20 wheeling trips later the Currie arms are fine, the RC arms if they are still functioning properly will need the joints rebuilt and bushings replaced. Budget parts are built to a price point, to be affordable.

 

I'm not bashing budget lift kits because I'm a rich snob. I'm a broke idiot, but I've learned a lot over the years.

[Dzimm]

7 hours ago, shelbyluvv said:

Had Crusty's on my WJ. Absolute garbage. Caused DW from the day I put it on. He blamed me for installing it wrong. It was his junk joints and track bar.

 

Had Rough Country on my XJ. Blew every bushing and broke a main leaf within a year.

 

I used Rocky Road on a different XJ. Everything fit like crap and the track bar snapped in a week. Blamed the installer.

 

Put a Iron Rock kit on my buddies XJ after I warned him not to. The joints all failed, twice, in a year.

 

Sure these kits all have warranties but they are guaranteed pieces of $π!+!

 

So to answer your question, yes I do have first hand knowledge of their garbage.

 

There is no such thing as a cheap quality lift. Yes Zone makes a very nice "budget" kit but it is missing a lot of things I consider mandatory with a lift.

 

For me, I ether build my own with a mix match of parts or I go with either BDS or Iron Man. They are pricey but they perform and last. There are reasons why Cab Fab, Kevin's, Iron Man and many others have started producing lift kits. The simple fact is everything out there was junk.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Darren said:

 

I've ran, installed, repaired, handled, and removed parts from all the major aftermarket parts companies for Jeeps. You get what you pay for, especially when it comes to joints. A set of Rough Country control arms is $300 and a set of Currie arms is $700. Why is that? They do the same thing and even look the same. The difference is in the materials and build quality. 20,000 miles and 20 wheeling trips later the Currie arms are fine, the RC arms if they are still functioning properly will need the joints rebuilt and bushings replaced. Budget parts are built to a price point, to be affordable.

 

I'm not bashing budget lift kits because I'm a rich snob. I'm a broke idiot, but I've learned a lot over the years.

This is good info to know.  I mostly see people just say the kits are bad but never actually say why or what parts are so bad.