89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 These are the Detroit axle ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 hour ago, NC Tom said: @89 MJ@ratrapp@AnotherOldJeepGuy@Gjeep@ghetdjc320@Gojira94 Alright guys, I'm in the middle of this install and don't want to go further if this isn't correct. To install the new ones, I have to hammer them into place. This is bending the bracket. Is this right? The new ones won't sit flush like the old ones. Reminder, this is the third set of these I've ordered. They have all been basically the same. If this isn't correct, I'm lost. No, definitely not correct. I’ve seen some post here about grinding down the sleeve with the WJ arm swap. You may have to do something similar if you can’t get a drop in fit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 20 minutes ago, 89 MJ said: These are the Detroit axle ones? Yes. I don't get it. EVERY seller says, "Guaranteed to fit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said: No, definitely not correct. I’ve seen some post here about grinding down the sleeve with the WJ arm swap. You may have to do something similar if you can’t get a drop in fit Yeah, If I do that the heat from grinding will melt the bushing. Or so I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 7 minutes ago, NC Tom said: Yeah, If I do that the heat from grinding will melt the bushing. Or so I assume. Nah, get and aggressive flap disk and knock some off. You don’t need to remove all the material at once. You can remove some, cool it off then remove more. It takes a decent amount of heat to start melting that rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, ghetdjc320 said: Nah, get and aggressive flap disk and knock some off. You don’t need to remove all the material at once. You can remove some, cool it off then remove more. It takes a decent amount of heat to start melting that rubber. Even though most of what I read about Moog is negative, the part images they post look correct. I may just return the Detroit ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 They all probably come from the same crappy factory overseas. Moog is likely your best bet, but don’t hold your breath. Anymore it seems most direct replacement parts aren’t that and require modifications to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gojira94 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 The arm pockets do squeeze in a hair when the bolts are torqued during (the last) installation. You can use a prybar and a scrap of lumber to open them a little and then install the arms. Get the bolts just snug and put her back on her feet before torquing to spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Not sure where you’re seeing negative feedback about Moog in regard to Comanche parts. My experience has been quite the opposite. I think like most companies, they have various lines of quality and are likely just private labeled like many. But their standard original parts have been solid for me. I’d make sure to grab them from a reputable source so you get a genuine part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derf Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, ghetdjc320 said: Not sure where you’re getting negative feedback about Moog in regard to Comanche parts. My experience has been quite the opposite. I think like most companies, they have various lines of quality and are likely just private labeled like many. But their standard original parts have been solid for me. Same. I've never had any problems with Moog parts as an OEM replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 This is insane! Decided to grind and now the holes don't line up!? I'm assuming I can drill it larger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I wouldn't drill anything larger, especially the mounts on the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Don’t drill anything. From the pic it looks like you just need to line up the hole better. Does your oe hardware fit properly in the control arm sleeve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle_SX4 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 DON'T drill any holes. What you are probably fitting is that you put the control arm in the axle first. You should put the control arm in the body side first then move the axle to get it lined up properly. I had to use a come along winch to get my axle in the right spot for the bolts to drop in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Okay. See pic. I figured drilling was a bad idea and that I just needed to move the axle forward a bit. While I was pondering that, I noticed the hole where the arm is installed in the body is oval. Then I noticed the two bolts holding a bracket with a round hole in it. This bracket was shimmed to center the hole. I took the adjustable bracket out, removed the shims and reinstalled the bracket. Now that arm mounts in the bracket. This is apparently a factory adjustment. I can only assume that's it'd okay to install this way. I have only done the one side. Anyone see a reason that won't work. The slightly longer control arm fits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Leave the factory shims alone along with the cradle. The trick is to wrangle to axle into place so the bolts fit in the same spot as original. However, it would be advisable to measure your oe and new control arm to make sure they are the same length eye to eye. If they aren’t, technically you could adjust your shims. They are there for caster alignment. Few shops will carry those shims if you decide to get it aligned. Adjustable control arms have a real advantage here. But try to leave your factory spec in place as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 8 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said: Leave the factory shims alone along with the cradle. The trick is to wrangle to axle into place so the bolts fit in the same spot as original. However, it would be advisable to measure your oe and new control arm to make sure they are the same length eye to eye. If they aren’t, technically you could adjust your shims. They are there for caster alignment. Few shops will carry those shims if you decide to get it aligned. Adjustable control arms have a real advantage here. But try to leave your factory spec in place as much as possible. They are not the same. If they were, they would have lined up well. I will be getting an alignment. Will a professional alignment be able to accommodate the longer arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Those shims are your caster adjustment. Not having enough caster is a surefire way to end up with death wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 1 minute ago, NC Tom said: They are not the same. If they were, they would have lined up well. I will be getting an alignment. Will a professional alignment be able to accommodate the longer arms? How much longer. When you removed the stock lower control am, the axle would've moved backwards causing this problem. Any competent alignment shop should be able to accommodate the longer arms just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Just now, 89 MJ said: How much longer. When you removed the stock lower control am, the axle would've moved backwards causing this problem. Any competent alignment shop should be able to accommodate the longer arms just fine. Bout a quarter inch. I don't have any way to move the axle. I tried for couple of hours, nope. "Any competent alignment shop should be able to accommodate the longer arms just fine." So I can move ahead with what I'm doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 4 minutes ago, NC Tom said: Bout a quarter inch. I don't have any way to move the axle. I tried for couple of hours, nope. "Any competent alignment shop should be able to accommodate the longer arms just fine." So I can move ahead with what I'm doing? Did you try a come along like someone else suggested? Ratchet straps would work too. As long as you pull out a stack of shims equal in thickness to the difference in length between the control arms, theoretically it will be alright. But if you're doing this to fix your front end shake, it is highly unlikely that it will do so if you remove the shims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 5 minutes ago, 89 MJ said: Did you try a come along like someone else suggested? Ratchet straps would work too. As long as you pull out a stack of shims equal in thickness to the difference in length between the control arms, theoretically it will be alright. But if you're doing this to fix your front end shake, it is highly unlikely that it will do so if you remove the shims. Everything else has been replaced. Shake is gone. I don't have anything to hook a strap to. I guess I'll have to put everything back together and move the truck close to a tree. This day has been a complete waste of time. So frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Glad to hear that the shake is gone. As they say, if it were always fun and easy, everybody would be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 If you are swapping one control arm at a time as many do, you will rarely have them fit perfectly. It is completely normal to have to wrangle the axle into place with your first lower and upper control arms. If you want to, you can loosen up the rest of your control arm hardware (loose but don’t remove) and it will make it slightly easier to adjust. But don’t modify the Jeep and don’t assume the control arm length is different just because it doesn’t fit the same. Stock control arm length is something like 15.** inches eye to eye for the lowers. If you can just verify that your control arms are the length they are supposed to be, that’s all you need. Yank the axle around and/or loosen your other control arm hardware. Removing the track bar lower bolt can help as well. Maybe a good time for a meal/drink break Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Yeah, I know it's a learning experience. It's not the "doing" it's the "re-doing" that chaps my @$$. I didn't know about the shims at all. Now I do. Looks like I have added a dozen more pages to my book about how not to do things. I guess I'll be at it again this coming weekend. But, with more knowledge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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