suddenly difficult shifts at lower gears (manual)

[brucecooner]

Last week I took it out and suddenly the transmission (BA10/5) realllly doesn't like going out of 1st and up to 2nd.

They're crunching really good.

Third is easier, and 4th and 5th are fine, so the clutch seems to be doing its job.

 

If I get the RPM's up (as cruiser would recommend :)  ) 1st to 2nd comes a little easier.

Once it's warmed up a bit it shifts significantly better.

 

I had to get a new clutch not long after getting my '88 earlier this year.

They suggested a transmission fluid change so I thought yeah, good idea while it's in the shop.

The service receipt says they used 75W-90, full synthetic, but the brand is question marks.

 

I've seen threads that indicate "I was crunching gears until I switched to transmission fluid X."

I know, you can find a thread for any problem where changing the brand of some liquid fixes it.

But is there any truth to that?

The sudden onset of this behavior makes me wonder if it's more mechanical in nature, synchros going or something.

But, if a better transmission lubricant really fixes it, I'm all ears.

 

[gogmorgo]

Did you check the level in the clutch master cylinder? Also trans fluid level? Signs of leaks anywhere?

My go-to manual trans oil is Royal Purple Synchromax. Others have other preferences, but I’ve tried a few different things and keep ending up back at the Royal Purple. I’m in a colder climate than some, and Synchromax is on the lighter end of the trans oil spectrum which might be part of it. But it’s what has worked best for me in a bunch of very different transmissions which is nice because it’s also much easier for me to get than say a Redline. 

[brucecooner]

1 hour ago, gogmorgo said:

Did you check the level in the clutch master cylinder? Also trans fluid level? Signs of leaks anywhere?

My go-to manual trans oil is Royal Purple Synchromax. Others have other preferences, but I’ve tried a few different things and keep ending up back at the Royal Purple. I’m in a colder climate than some, and Synchromax is on the lighter end of the trans oil spectrum which might be part of it. But it’s what has worked best for me in a bunch of very different transmissions which is nice because it’s also much easier for me to get than say a Redline. 

 

No signs of leaks, yet.

I'm such a noob at mechanicals, I didn't even think to check fluid levels.

 

 

I'm in a hotter climate here in Phoenix, I don't know if that calls for something different.

I will try, really try, to find a bottle of something with numbers similar to what the owner's manual specifies.  :)

 

 

[cruiser54]

How is it going into reverse?

[jpnjake]

This is a screenshot of what I had saved for the correct oil from Peugeot in an email 

[brucecooner]

5 hours ago, cruiser54 said:

How is it going into reverse?

Now that you mention it, reverse has been tougher too.  Our driveway slops, and if I let it roll out before putting it into reverse it's difficult.

It's best to work the clutch a bit and get it into reverse before letting it roll.

 

 

4 hours ago, jpnjake said:

This is a screenshot of what I had saved for the correct oil from Peugeot in an email 

20/50, interesting.

 

I managed to scrounge up the fluid chart that came with mine, and it also says 75W-90 GL5 for the BA10/5.

 

So the shop chose the right weight.  I wonder if the tranny would prefer dino juice. 

Honestly, as far as I've been able to determine synthetic oil IS oil, it just has a much more consistent size/viscosity.

 

 

 

 

[cruiser54]

Dead stop. Shift into reverse. What happens? 

[pizzaman09]

Is it colder than it's typically been?  Are you sure the clutch is doing what it's supposed to.  

[Classy Comanche]

I know this is for a manual. But when I was having issues along the lines of this. Particularly going into reverse it would jerk really hard. What it was was my TPS or IAC not working properly causing my flexplate to spin faster than it was supposed to causing it to jerk going into reverse. Perhaps he has a increased amount of air being sucked into his system and extra fuel is being sprayed in? I know my idles were higher when in park. Is your idle high by chance? Just a random shot in the dark?

[brucecooner]

1 hour ago, pizzaman09 said:

Is it colder than it's typically been?  Are you sure the clutch is doing what it's supposed to.  

It has gotten cooler, but it's not cold.   Maybe things have tightened up inside the tranny?

 

This feels different than when I've had a bad clutch. 

Without a clutch I can't get it to even think about going into gear, there's a hard stop.

But this feels different.  You can push it a little in, but things get grindy if you force it.

[cruiser54]

what about reverse?

[PIKE]

19 hours ago, brucecooner said:

Now that you mention it, reverse has been tougher too.  Our driveway slops, and if I let it roll out before putting it into reverse it's difficult.

It's best to work the clutch a bit and get it into reverse before letting it roll.

 

 

20/50, interesting.

 

I managed to scrounge up the fluid chart that came with mine, and it also says 75W-90 GL5 for the BA10/5.

 

So the shop chose the right weight.  I wonder if the tranny would prefer dino juice. 

Honestly, as far as I've been able to determine synthetic oil IS oil, it just has a much more consistent size/viscosity.

 

19 hours ago, brucecooner said:

Now that you mention it, reverse has been tougher too.  Our driveway slops, and if I let it roll out before putting it into reverse it's difficult.

It's best to work the clutch a bit and get it into reverse before letting it roll.

 

 

20/50, interesting.

 

I managed to scrounge up the fluid chart that came with mine, and it also says 75W-90 GL5 for the BA10/5.

 

So the shop chose the right weight.  I wonder if the tranny would prefer dino juice. 

Honestly, as far as I've been able to determine synthetic oil IS oil, it just has a much more consistent size/viscosity.

 

 

 

 

The wrong oil is not good for your synchros

 

https://www.redlineoil.com/75w90-ns-gl-5-gear-oil

 

 

19 hours ago, brucecooner said:

 

 

 

 

[pizzaman09]

Based on what you are saying, I'm still skeptical that the clutch is fully disengaging, it may be worth bleeding.  

 

With respect to temperature, both of my Comanches and a few other of my manual cars all have notable issues shifting when cold.  The 88 Comanche with the BA10/5 on a day under 50deg F wouldn't even take second gear until I drove it at least 1/4 mile.  My 90 Comanche with the AX-15 also has difficulty shifting into second when cold, double clutching helps, the Royal Purple syncromax fluid I put in also helped.

[cruiser54]

I'll ask this again:

 

Dead stop. Shift into reverse. What happens? 

[howeitsdone]

Many people report their BA10/5 can be tough going to 2nd during colder months. I was no different to that circumstance either. One solution, albeit not the safest to me, is to put the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in gear to get it warmed up before you drive it. I found that 10/10 times it took me going down the road a mile to be squared away with no issues.

 

You should probably do the above and report back 

[cruiser54]

6 minutes ago, howeitsdone said:

Many people report their BA10/5 can be tough going to 2nd during colder months. I was no different to that circumstance either. One solution, albeit not the safest to me, is to put the transfer case in neutral and the transmission in gear to get it warmed up before you drive it. I found that 10/10 times it took me going down the road a mile to be squared away with no issues.

 

You should probably do the above and report back 

That^^ was considered "normal" back in the day per the factory. 

[AdroitKirby]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:31 AM, cruiser54 said:

How is it going into reverse?

 

On 11/13/2022 at 2:19 PM, cruiser54 said:

Dead stop. Shift into reverse. What happens? 

 

22 hours ago, cruiser54 said:

what about reverse?

 

4 hours ago, cruiser54 said:

I'll ask this again:

 

Dead stop. Shift into reverse. What happens? 

This is comedy gold

[cruiser54]

Hey Kirby!! Have you thought about reverse also? Just sayin....I thought it was just me. 

[brucecooner]

5 hours ago, cruiser54 said:

Hey Kirby!! Have you thought about reverse also? Just sayin....I thought it was just me. 

 

I'm sorry to keep everybody on the edge of their seats with the question of reverse.

 

So much stuff is begging for attention around here I don't have nearly as much time to play with the Jeep as I want.

I've been on the roof several days in the past week, slowly turning it into a sort of Fort Knox in my ongoing war with the pigeons who think our roof makes a wonderful place to roost.  Local firearm ordinances and the fact my aim would be poor anyway are the only thing keeping those suckers alive at this point.

 

I'll make up an excuse to go somewhere in the Comanche tomorrow if I have to, and I'll go there in reverse.

I do love driving around in it, I'm almost 50 and it's the first vehicle I've ever bought for myself that I genuinely wanted.

But man every couple of weeks I have an "OH GOD WHAT'S BROKE NOW?" moment when something sounds weird or doesn't work as intended (like shifting up into 2nd).  Usually I come on here and cruiser reports "yeah that's normal". 

Jeeps are weird. Apparently "normal" for a Jeep includes an incredibly wide range of quite variable behaviors.

 

EDIT: Apparently some transmissions don't like certain additives because the synchros contain bronze gears that are attacked by said additives.

My transmission hasn't been driven far since the fluid change, not even 200 miles.  How long would any damage take to show up?

The forums' consensus for an AX15 seems to be Royal Purple something or other or Red Line MT-90. 

If either of those (or anything really) work well in a BA10/5 I'd happily switch it out (and do it myself this time of course).

 

 

 

[cruiser54]

IIRC, the BA-10 had conical aluminum synchros and that was part of the problem. 

Just a poor design. Not a problem with reacting to fluid. 

 

My buddies at JeepTech recommended an additive to help with the shifting, but that was over 30 years ago. I'll try to hunt it down.

[ghetdjc320]

Being physically hard to shift could very well be the clutch. You mentioned they changed fluid around the time the clutch was changed which was about 200 miles ago? 

[cruiser54]

Dude!!!

 

Start the son of a b*@ch and shift into reverse!!! Report back. 2 minute job. 

Beating this dead horse about fluids doesn't get to the root issue. 

You're making it very difficult for a bunch of really good guys to help you. 

[PIKE]

The only time I had a problem with shifting was when I  needed to bleed the clutch system. I used Cruisers procedure and all is good. I just recommend RedLine because i don't think it is snake oil and good for our manual transmissions.

[ghetdjc320]

1 hour ago, cruiser54 said:

Dude!!!

 

Start the son of a b*@ch and shift into reverse!!! Report back. 2 minute job. 

Beating this dead horse about fluids doesn't get to the root issue. 

You're making it very difficult for a bunch of really good guys to help you.  

So true, give it a try!
 

 

[brucecooner]

Results from the "quit wasting our time and put it in reverse" tests were mostly positive but kind of random.

 

Got it out of the drive, stopped in the street, and it went into reverse just fine, first and second did okay taking off.

The air was a little warmer today, but not my much.

Driving around it did okay. It seems to do considerably better if you get it up to at least 2500 going from first to second.

After a few miles to get things warm I did a few stops and starts. Usually it did fine, but you'd still the occasional crunchy shift.

I did check the clutch cylinder, and it shows to have plenty of fluid.

 

 

It's definitely not as shifting as smoothly overall as when I got it.

At this point I'm willing to be suspicious the clutch isn't working every time.

I'll add "bleed clutch" to the long list of things I never have time for.