Comanche's new home

[tugboat95]

Just starting a thread here chronicling my new garage build. This isn't going to be quite up to Garage Mahal's build thread. But it's mine none the less. I have big ideas for it, probably bigger than my wallet

To start with , it will be a metal building. Foot print will be 24x36x12. With a 3500psi reinforced concrete slab with wire mesh embedded I it. 10×10 rollup garage door, a pedestrian door and one window on each side. It will have a 200 amp service with a separate meter from my house. Water will be provided by a gutter catchment system. This will not be for drinking, just to wash my hands etc. Plans are for a 9000 lbs 2 post lift and up to 220v power. I pulled the trigger and started the process 2 weeks ago. I'm currently doing the ground work. The concrete will be laid in 12 to 16 weeks....yeah long lead time. Building will be erected 4 to 6 weeks later after slab has cured. Below are pics of the progress I've made so far. I stopped hauling dirt when I found the county permitting process has a lead time of a month and I had to submit a surveyed plot plan to them of the proposed site as well as blueprints that I originally didn't have made and certified.

 

89 Comanche

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[Chad R]

Sounds like it will be a very nice shop.

[Eagle]

7 hours ago, tugboat95 said:

 

I stopped hauling dirt when I found the county permitting process has a lead time of a month and I had to submit a surveyed plot plan to them of the proposed site as well as blueprints that I originally didn't have made and certified.

 

 

How do you have blueprints "certified"? Who certifies them? And why do they need to be certified at all? This is next to your house, right? So it gets built under the Residential Code, and doesn't need to be drawn, signed, or sealed by an architect or an engineer.

[MiNi Beast]

19 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

How do you have blueprints "certified"? Who certifies them? And why do they need to be certified at all? This is next to your house, right? So it gets built under the Residential Code, and doesn't need to be drawn, signed, or sealed by an architect or an engineer.

I'm thinking perhaps being a standalone building with its own meter of its size being required by local code and oriented per the plot.

 

Maybe not a engineered plan per your specs but a approved building plan to show whats being built and copied once pull building permit. Inspections will be done and be long and test patience. good luck with your build, will be nice to have a home for the mj.     

[tugboat95]

The builder provides and certifies them. Basically means The foundation will have footers not just a slab and The structure will be built to withstand the wind zone (120mph) requirement of my hurricane prone area. The county requires it of all permanent structures regardless of use.
My original contract was for a metal building on a slab. No permits no footers etc. County got involved when the electrical company required a county inspection for the power supply. Also as part I have to have an Environmental impact assessment done by the county. To determine if my building will influence run off and drainage as well as septic systems in the area. Yeah...ENTER THE BUREAUCRATS! all because I wanted lights in it.

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[MiNi Beast]

gotta have lights. 

[tugboat95]

gotta have lights. 

Oh I have a generator....don't think it didn't cross my mind.

89 Comanche
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[MiNi Beast]

yeah i understand it that some just build the barn and do wiring later but i reckon they do not have it on separate meter. 

are you dropping to a power pole or going direct to building?  

[tugboat95]

yeah i understand it that some just build the barn and do wiring later but i reckon they do not have it on separate meter. 
are you dropping to a power pole or going direct to building?  

Coming in off the street underground. Power company does it for free if it meets certain requirements. Neighbors shop was done for free.
Meter will be on the building
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[MiNi Beast]

hell yeah, hook that up for sure. nice. keep a stall open for me..

[Eagle]

15 hours ago, tugboat95 said:

The builder provides and certifies them. Basically means The foundation will have footers not just a slab and The structure will be built to withstand the wind zone (120mph) requirement of my hurricane prone area. The county requires it of all permanent structures regardless of use.
My original contract was for a metal building on a slab. No permits no footers etc. County got involved when the electrical company required a county inspection for the power supply. Also as part I have to have an Environmental impact assessment done by the county. To determine if my building will influence run off and drainage as well as septic systems in the area. Yeah...ENTER THE BUREAUCRATS! all because I wanted lights in it.
 

 

Legally, builders can't "certify" plans. Any building that is on a residential lot and that will be accessory to a one- or two-family residence is constructed under the International Residential Code, not the International Building Code (which is for everything else). I went through this recently with a building inspector friend who had a case where a woman was going to build an 80' x 200' riding arena and she claimed it was under the Residential Code. What kicked it over to the Building Code was that she was running a commercial horse breeding operation and riding school out of the property.

 

I'm not saying that a private, residential outbuilding is exempt from codes or from inspections. The exception in the code is for structures smaller than 200 square feet. And zoning is a separate matter from building codes. What I'm questioning is this "certification" of plans. The laws of every state allow the owners of residential properties to draw their own plans. They do NOT require the plans to be drawn by an architect or an engineer, and an architect or an engineer cannot legally put his seal and signature on any plans he did not draw personally or that weren't drawn under his direct supervision. A builder can also draw up plans for a residential structure but he can't "certify" them -- at least, not beyond making a statement that "I certify that I drew these plans," which is a meaningless statement. His 5-year old daughter could draw the plans with a crayon and make the same certification.

[tugboat95]

You do know codes are different in every jurisdiction right? My wind requirements are not the same as just a little west of me. I don't have to attach tethers like California requires. And yes my builder is engineering and certifying and registering the blue prints there are drawing with the county. They are saying this building can withstand 120mph sustained winds and not blow apart. They are a licensed contractor in the state and it is a requirement where I live. One county away it's not required.

When I told the inspector office I was only building a small garage for my car, she said it didn't matter. Every permanent structure in my my county requires this. If caught its automatic 500 dollar fine. And possibly be made to tear it down. Then she gave me a checklist of items required to be submitted. Certified engineered blue prints is on that list

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[75sv1]

17 hours ago, tugboat95 said:

You do know codes are different in every jurisdiction right? My wind requirements are not the same as just a little west of me. I don't have to attach tethers like California requires. And yes my builder is engineering and certifying and registering the blue prints there are drawing with the county. They are saying this building can withstand 120mph sustained winds and not blow apart. They are a licensed contractor in the state and it is a requirement where I live. One county away it's not required.

When I told the inspector office I was only building a small garage for my car, she said it didn't matter. Every permanent structure in my my county requires this. If caught its automatic 500 dollar fine. And possibly be made to tear it down. Then she gave me a checklist of items required to be submitted. Certified engineered blue prints is on that list

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True that. Also, in the same county you might have different codes as to in the City or out in the country. Sort of a funny story. A guy I worked with was trying to build a large shed in town. His neighbor said he could not build it as he was on a Flood Zone. The guy came into work and was not happy. The micro fiche from 1930 plots didn't exactly show if he was on a flood zone or not. There was a small creek or more like a drainage ditch on the back of his property. He stated "If I'm on a Flood Zone, Gods going to have to prove it to me!' A shiver went up and down my spine. It rained 10 inches in the next two days. He came into work at stated "Well, God proved it to me. I live on a flood zone." The waters came up underneath his house.  Probably 150 ft. 

      As Paul Harvey would say, Now for the rest of the Story. Remember that neighbor. Well He build on with out a permit. I can't remember if they made him tear it down.  Then latter there was a building boom. Some places that were designated as flood zones were build on. Yes, we had another 100 year flood about 10 years latter. People forget the fist one. The Second one, everybody has a story. 

[neohic]

Looking forward to seeing updates on this. I love seeing what others build for vehicle dwellings!

[Eagle]

On 4/17/2021 at 3:33 PM, tugboat95 said:

You do know codes are different in every jurisdiction right? My wind requirements are not the same as just a little west of me.
 

 

Ah, yeah -- it's what I do for a living. Which is how I know that every state in the country now uses some edition or other of the International Building Code and the International Residential Code. And garages as an extension of a residential occupancy fall under the Residential Code.

 

I still want to know how a builder can "certify" construction plans.

[tugboat95]

Because they also designing it and making it from the raw material. Why I chose them. They do it all


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[tugboat95]

Well I got all my permits and I've started hauling fill. Permit process was easy but expensive. Took 4 weeks to get them all. 32000 lbs of sand hauled in on a dump trailer so far. This is 2 16000lbs loads. Got to get at least 2 more loads, maybe 4. But with no gas to be had where I live I had to stop for the week. These Hemi's love gas, especially when towing. Maybe next month when I get home again I can finish it. Hopefully concrete can be laid while I home then also.

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[tugboat95]

Reckon I got enough dirt. Ended up hiring a small 8 ton dump truck and a local 14 year old looking for some spending money. Hopefully I'll get the concrete put down in 3 to 4 weeks.

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[Pete M]

that's a lot of shoveling! 

[tugboat95]

Oh it was. Kid earned his money. Raised the footprint about a foot. I doubt it floods as the front is in a low spot that tends to collect water during hurricanes and other intense rain events. Started with a wheelbarrow. When I wouldn't roll we fill my pick up bed and moved it. Then we finished off old school. 5 gallon buckets. Lots of 5 gallon buckets.

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[Jeep Driver]

13 hours ago, tugboat95 said:

I doubt it floods

 

Few points here-

 

In my 40 years of residential construction I've never known a GC who was also an engineer, they are almost always exclusive. 

GCs don't 'certify' anything. Common language- 'signed set' or 'sealed set' or 'engineered set' as it refers to a set of plans or prints. 

 

Likely your GC has a signed set for a common garage that he has built dozens of times before.

 

 

Since you pulled your own permits you are known as an 'owner builder', you are solely responsible for the construction of the garage. 

Your GC should have pulled his own permits. 

If your GC fails to perform it is not him and his license who is on the hook for the failure, it is you. And you have no recourse other than suing him in court. 

There was no upside for you to do this. 

Another downside-

Your local building dept is not there to inform you.

One thing you did not mention is a survey, you really need a survey and a plot plan. 

You mentioned flooding, you are apparently building a raised foundation, what is the minimum elevation of a finished floor in your flood zone?

If you do not know that answer you need to stop and get that question answered. 

Even though it is a garage and not a dwelling there still may be a requirement. 1" low at final and you are totally screwed. I've seen it happen. 

 

Also, do yourself a favor, rough in for a water closet (toilet and sink), cost is minimal now and think not of yourself but the next owner. Just get the pipes in the slab and out the footer. 

 

Also, generally the stem wall foundation is installed before the fill is brought in....case in point-

You mention you are installing a lift, if it were me, regardless of the recommendation of the lift company/instructions.....I'd dig and pour a 24x24x24 footer for the lift (X2 for a two post lift). That footer can be monolithic (poured with the slab at the same time) but needs to go down to virgin soil.........NOT the fill.  Plenty of rebar there also. 

Also make sure the GC knows there will be a lift to make certain you have enough head height with no collar ties or bracing in the way. 

Consider any electric you want under slab now too. 

[tugboat95]

You are way over thinking this. Builder doesn't require any permits and they don't do them as they service 3 states. Every county is different. Think large carport...I'm not living in it. Nothing for him to approve or disapprove. He was inspecting location. He will inspect electric when I do that next year. But that's just the 200 amp pole install (security light). He'll never know about the 200 amp box inside cause I'll never tell them about next year. Concrete will be 5 inches for a 6 foot section the full width. Rest will be 4 inch slab with 6 inch footers for wind code. It is reinforced, 3500 psi with metal grid not rebar. Lift manufacturer specifically discourages rebar. I got their recommendations for a 10000lbs lift. There will be no running water or toilet. There will be a gravity fed off the roof rain barrel piped to a a laundry to wash my hands occasionally. 9 don't care about "the next guy" I'll be dead and I didn't build it for him.

Yes he has built dozens of these. It's pre-engineered by them, a crew puts it together in about 18 hours. It's a metal building built and certified to withstand 140mph wind code of my area. He does not buy or distribute another companies building. They build it in their facility about an hour from where I live. I do have blue prints that has a certification stamped with a raised seal that I had to submit to the county for the permit. I had a plot plan drawn ad well for the permits to ensure no set backs or right of ways were infringed. Biggest thing county inspector looked at was septic tank location.
I do not flood. I'm 62 feet above sea level. Flood insurance is not required. I grew up flooding 3 to 4 times a year. I will never live in a flood zone again. My issue is heavy rain like 17 inches in 2 days will cause ponding just in front of that location. 6 hours after it quits raining, it's gone. It's happened 4 times in the last 20 years.

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[Jeep Driver]

25 minutes ago, tugboat95 said:

You are way over thinking this. Builder doesn't require any permits and they don't do them as they service 3 states. Every county is different. Think large carport...I'm not living in it. Nothing for him to approve or disapprove. He was inspecting location. He will inspect electric when I do that next year. But that's just the 200 amp pole install (security light). He'll never know about the 200 amp box inside cause I'll never tell them about next year. Concrete will be 5 inches for a 6 foot section the full width. Rest will be 4 inch slab with 6 inch footers for wind code. It is reinforced, 3500 psi with metal grid not rebar. Lift manufacturer specifically discourages rebar. I got their recommendations for a 10000lbs lift. There will be no running water or toilet. There will be a gravity fed off the roof rain barrel piped to a a laundry to wash my hands occasionally. 9 don't care about "the next guy" I'll be dead and I didn't build it for him.

Yes he has built dozens of these. It's pre-engineered by them, a crew puts it together in about 18 hours. It's a metal building built and certified to withstand 140mph wind code of my area. He does not buy or distribute another companies building. They build it in their facility about an hour from where I live. I do have blue prints that has a certification stamped with a raised seal that I had to submit to the county for the permit. I had a plot plan drawn ad well for the permits to ensure no set backs or right of ways were infringed. Biggest thing county inspector looked at was septic tank location.
I do not flood. I'm 62 feet above sea level. Flood insurance is not required. I grew up flooding 3 to 4 times a year. I will never live in a flood zone again. My issue is heavy rain like 17 inches in 2 days will cause ponding just in front of that location. 6 hours after it quits raining, it's gone. It's happened 4 times in the last 20 years.

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OK. 

 

Forget I said anything. 

 

I know you don't care about the next guy. Added value is to YOU, it's what you can sell to the next guy. 

 

Further, I still don't understand the fill dirt, completely unnecessary. 

 

Also, footer for lift is added value to you, it's cheap insurance. 

 

Further, REBAR. 

 

 

[tugboat95]

Getting real. 2 days to prep ground, build the forms and pour concrete and then work it. I'm second guessing the way I did the ramp but it's too late now. 3500 lbs psi mix, wire mesh embedded with 12 inch footers all the way around. 14 cubic yards of concrete. Finished product has relief cuts as well. Now it cures for 28 days.

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[Manche757]

Off to a good start neighbor to the south. Got any tugboat parts to adorn the front? Power on!