should I lift 4" or 6.5"

[89 MJ]

1 hour ago, Jessemj said:

If I'm lifting 6.5 in the front it will be all squatted. how do i even it out or, preferably, get the stock rake 

You would still be about an inch higher in the rear if you ran 6.5” front springs. 

[Jesse J]

2 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

You would still be about an inch higher in the rear if you ran 6.5” front springs. 

I'm so confused. If I go 6.5" coils in the front and spring over in the rear giving me 5'' won't that be squatted?

[mnkyboy]

6.5" front usually sits pretty level with SOA rear since the rear already sat a little higher from the factory.

You could always do a 1" shackle if you wanted to put some rake back in it.

 

 

[89 MJ]

1 hour ago, Jessemj said:

I'm so confused. If I go 6.5" coils in the front and spring over in the rear giving me 5'' won't that be squatted?

No it won’t because most trucks have a 2+ inch rake stock because they are built to sit level when they are loaded. 

[ghetdjc320]

43 minutes ago, 89 MJ said:

No it won’t because most trucks have a 2+ inch rake stock because they are built to sit level when they are loaded. 

 I have RE 5.5” coils up front but they only net me 3.5” with my bumper, winch etc. I have soa rear with used 2wd leafs but the truck has far more rake than stock. Soa gives a heck of a lot of lift for some reason on some MJ’s. Driveline vibes also for me on my short bed until switching to an sye and tw driveshaft. If I were to do it again (which I will), I’d weld on the acos adjusters up front with some Currie springs. Also going to grab a set of used xj springs to make a hybrid pack for the rear. If this was a fresh build I would have stayed about 3-4” lift and run some notch flares and 33-35’s (probably the metric version which are like 34x11.5). 

[Jesse J]

I'm not getting any of this

[ghetdjc320]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:08 AM, ghetdjc320 said:

To the OP, I suggest you do some research on some of these subjects before you start any lift. Look up leaf springs vs coil springs. See what the control arms, track bar and sway bar do in a link suspension setup, lookup shock design, check into differentials and lockers and see how they work, look at steering geometry and read up on our tech and diy for MJ specific info. All of this info is online and there are plenty of very good videos explaining how these systems work. A basic grasp of these systems will help you make the best choices when modding. 

[Jesse J]

should i swap the front d30 I don't want to put money into an axle to either have it break or replace it it in a couple years also I feel like i would run into steering and radius arm issues. But It would be nice

[mnkyboy]

D30 works fine for most people,there's not much for bolt in upgrades that are significantly stronger than the D30 so you would be looking at aftermarket axles which gets expensive, or building and setting up axles out of another vehicle which can also get pretty spendy and is a fairly good amount of work especially for someone that's learning.

 

Your best bet will be to buy the most complete suspension kit you can afford, add in anything you feel it's lacking and go from there, lifting the truck will give you a ton of hands on experience and driving a lifted truck will help you decide what you like and don't like, you can upgrade from there.

Eventually as you learn more your truck will improve until it evolves into what you want it to be.

 

13 or so years ago I bought a cheap 5" lift for my MJ and started figuring stuff out, my MJ is now among the most heavily modified trucks in this group, just got to start somewhere and go for it.

[MiNi Beast]

36 minutes ago, mnkyboy said:

D30 works fine for most people,there's not much for bolt in upgrades that are significantly stronger than the D30 so you would be looking at aftermarket axles which gets expensive or building and setting up axles out of another vehicle,which can also get pretty spendy and is a fairly good amount of work especially for someone that's learning.

 

Your best bet will be to buy the most complete suspension kit you can afford, add in anything you feel it's lacking and go from there, lifting the truck will give you a ton of hands on experience and driving a lifted truck will help you decide what you like and don't like, you can upgrade from there.

Eventually as you learn more your truck will improve until it evolves into what you want it to be.

 

13 or so years ago I bought a cheap 5" lift for my MJ and started figuring stuff out, my MJ is now among the most heavily modified trucks in this group, just got to start somewhere and go for it.

heavy. 

[MiNi Beast]

7 hours ago, Jessemj said:

should i swap the front d30 I don't want to put money into an axle to either have it break or replace it it in a couple years also I feel like i would run into steering and radius arm issues. But It would be nice

don't want to put money into something you havent even broke yet.   you can upgrade as you break. 

[ghetdjc320]

1 hour ago, MiNi Beast said:

heavy. 

[Jesse J]

sweet

[89 MJ]

2 hours ago, Jessemj said:

sweet

Any other questions? 

I know that this can get very complicated.

[Jesse J]

2 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

Any other questions? 

I know that this can get very complicated.

what will I eventually need to do something to the steering but what will need to be done to it to make it good again in a year or two?  

[ghetdjc320]

8 hours ago, Jessemj said:

what will I eventually need to do something to the steering but what will need to be done to it to make it good again in a year or two?  

Depends how much you lift, what tires you run and how you use it. Here is a summary:

when you run over 4” lift you tie rod angles on your stock steering get pretty steep. If you just drive around town or mild wheeling where you don’t flex out your axle then you can probably get away with stock steering linkage configuration. If you run 6+ inches of lift and/or really flex out your suspension then consider a crossover steering system that moves the steering linkage higher so the angles are flatter. If you do that though, you will also need to relocate the track bar to be parallel to your drag link. Otherwise the disimilar angles will cause what we call “bump steer” which can be nasty on the highway or around corners. 

Next comes strength. An upgrade to stock components is to use 93-98 grand Cherokee V8 linkage. The real advantage to this system is the tie rod (which connect the drag link to the drivers side wheel). The stock mj/xj one is a thin hollow tube. The ZJ (1st gen Grand Cherokee) one is solid and much thicker. This system is a good stock replacement and is cheap but will not do any better for extreme angles. 
The Currie Enterprises (CE-9701) steering kit is good up to about 5.5-6” of usable off-road lift. The linkage is super beefy and the tie rod ends are angled so that they are in a more “neutral” position at ride height. 
For tires 35” and larger you will likely start to need big bore steering boxes or ram assist and crossover/high steer. This is all very custom at this point. If you don’t know what a tie rod end is or a drag link or a tie rod or the knuckles or pitman arm then you will need to do some research unless someone here wants to keep on explaining. It’s true everyone needs to start somewhere but please do as much research as you can to grasp the fundamentals and the jargon you are bound to hear. Also a good idea to ask for some experienced help during the install of whatever lift you decide to go with. That way you can keep yourself and other drivers safe while learning all about how these systems work together and the endless modding that ensues. 
Oh and one last suggestion, stay away from drop pitman arms. They screw up steering geometry. In some cases a drop pitman or even a flat pitman arm are needed but for your application that shouldn’t be needed. 

[BeaterComanche86]

OP just incase you didn’t know what some of the stuff mentioned was here’s a photo of the front end. 
 

[Pete M]

what do you plan to do with the truck once it's done?

[Jesse J]

11 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Depends how much you lift, what tires you run and how you use it. Here is a summary:

when you run over 4” lift you tie rod angles on your stock steering get pretty steep. If you just drive around town or mild wheeling where you don’t flex out your axle then you can probably get away with stock steering linkage configuration. If you run 6+ inches of lift and/or really flex out your suspension then consider a crossover steering system that moves the steering linkage higher so the angles are flatter. If you do that though, you will also need to relocate the track bar to be parallel to your drag link. Otherwise the disimilar angles will cause what we call “bump steer” which can be nasty on the highway or around corners. 

Next comes strength. An upgrade to stock components is to use 93-98 grand Cherokee V8 linkage. The real advantage to this system is the tie rod (which connect the drag link to the drivers side wheel). The stock mj/xj one is a thin hollow tube. The ZJ (1st gen Grand Cherokee) one is solid and much thicker. This system is a good stock replacement and is cheap but will not do any better for extreme angles. 
The Currie Enterprises (CE-9701) steering kit is good up to about 5.5-6” of usable off-road lift. The linkage is super beefy and the tie rod ends are angled so that they are in a more “neutral” position at ride height. 
For tires 35” and larger you will likely start to need big bore steering boxes or ram assist and crossover/high steer. This is all very custom at this point. If you don’t know what a tie rod end is or a drag link or a tie rod or the knuckles or pitman arm then you will need to do some research unless someone here wants to keep on explaining. It’s true everyone needs to start somewhere but please do as much research as you can to grasp the fundamentals and the jargon you are bound to hear. Also a good idea to ask for some experienced help during the install of whatever lift you decide to go with. That way you can keep yourself and other drivers safe while learning all about how these systems work together and the endless modding that ensues. 
Oh and one last suggestion, stay away from drop pitman arms. They screw up steering geometry. In some cases a drop pitman or even a flat pitman arm are needed but for your application that shouldn’t be needed. 

ok groovy

[Jesse J]

16 minutes ago, Pete M said:

what do you plan to do with the truck once it's done?

Kinda daily drive it take it out wheeling a lot. I would get a lot of use out of a pickup and just want a project for fun.

[Pete M]

what's your budget for the project?

[Jesse J]

undecided. I think just work on it on and off over the next couple years. I mean I'm in high school. I have 4,000 right now to spend on it. 

[ghetdjc320]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:52 AM, Jessemj said:

a 4" will be cheaper because I don't have to use an sye but I want to fit 33s under it and it being a long bed a higher lift will give me better angles. Also I'm looking for best options to achieve either lift for cheaper.

If your budget is 4K then the cost of an sye or steering mods should be a non issue. Bob the bed and run a 4” lift. If you keep the long bed then the sye will likely never be needed though there are other good reasons to get one.

[Pete M]

some things I've learned over the years:

 

-33s only give 1" more ground clearance than 31s but quadruples the headaches

-wheeling your daily hard can cause all sorts of problems when monday rolls around

-closer to stock = better daily driver

-a reliable running truck is the most important thing

-recovery points are a close second

-armor is a close 3rd

-lockers are 4th

-spending money on things you don't actually need depletes your resources and makes it harder to maintain the daily driver status

 

 

a 3" lift with good 31s and the proper bumpers and rocker guards makes for a great daily and will easily handle 4x4 duty on the weekends.   you don't need giant tires to go have fun. 

 

[89 MJ]

2 minutes ago, Pete M said:

some things I've learned over the years:

 

-33s only give 1" more ground clearance than 31s but quadruples the headaches

-wheeling your daily hard can cause all sorts of problems when monday rolls around

-closer to stock = better daily driver

-a reliable running truck is the most important thing

-recovery points are a close second

-armor is a close 3rd

-lockers are 4th

-spending money on things you don't actually need depletes your resources and makes it harder to maintain the daily driver status

 

 

a 3" lift with good 31s and the proper bumpers and rocker guards makes for a great daily and will easily handle 4x4 duty on the weekends.   you don't need giant tires to go have fun. 

 

To kinda add on to what Pete has said, These trucks really don't need much to be a pretty solid wheeler. I have about a 3 inch lift on mine with 31s. I also have a friend with a JT on 37s. I'm pretty sure my truck has a better breakover angle than hers. I would love to upgrade to 33s on my truck, but I worry the gas mileage would go in the toilet, plus I would need to do a bunch more work to it, and to me, its not worth it. If I were to build a truck to bomb around in the woods, it would get a 3 or 4 inch lift, 31s, a front winch bumper with a winch, a limited slip rear differential and a set of rock sliders.