Fog Lights

[Eagle]

for the nice ones I'm sure.  I just wouldn't hold it past the cheapies to use the same reflector part and bandaid it with the lenses. :D

 

I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and say that the lens alone could not possibly make the difference between a long, tight driving light beam and a very wide, flat, cut-off fog light beam.

[yxmj]

 

My friend

 

I am in Winnipeg Manitoba Canada 1774 Miles from your home.  . :MJ 1: .

 

You are just a few inches from your keyboard......type in Google......

 

http://www.legis.state.wv.us/wvcode/code.cfm?chap=17c&art=15

 

The info you need is here

 

§17C-15-17. Spot lamps and other auxiliary lamps.

 

Wrong state ...

My apologies......not really my neck of the woods   . :MJ 1: .

[Stacks]

 

for the nice ones I'm sure.  I just wouldn't hold it past the cheapies to use the same reflector part and bandaid it with the lenses. :D

 

I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and say that the lens alone could not possibly make the difference between a long, tight driving light beam and a very wide, flat, cut-off fog light beam.

Eagle... I hate to start chopping on your limb but... check out fresnel lenses.  Most often associated with light houses and in our every day lives.. the lenses in traffic lights that can be seen only from a given direction.  The Navy uses them on aircraft carriers in their Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System.  A stabilized light source/glide slope reference for the pilots when making their landings.  I was the lens tech on USS Saratoga 1973-75.  The lens boxes used Fresnel lenses and I do not remember there even being a reflector in them.  The light pattern was similar to a fog light pattern only with a sharp cutoff top and bottom.  I honestly think the lens has a far greater affect on the light pattern while the reflector would influence the intensity.  Just my 2 cents.

[johnj92131]

Eagle... I hate to start chopping on your limb but... check out fresnel lenses.  Most often associated with light houses and in our every day lives.. the lenses in traffic lights that can be seen only from a given direction.  The Navy uses them on aircraft carriers in their Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System.  A stabilized light source/glide slope reference for the pilots when making their landings.  I was the lens tech on USS Saratoga 1973-75.  The lens boxes used Fresnel lenses and I do not remember there even being a reflector in them.  The light pattern was similar to a fog light pattern only with a sharp cutoff top and bottom.  I honestly think the lens has a far greater affect on the light pattern while the reflector would influence the intensity.  Just my 2 cents.

 

Who really thinks Chinese Auto Replacement Parts (C.R.A.P. aka CRAP)  Are made to military grade standards????

[Pete M]

I think he's referring to the ripples you can see in this photo.  that's a 3d texture in the glass designed to push the light out to the sides.

 

 

and it's missing from that same brand's driving light.  that's why I was thinking that the reflectors behind the lights might be identical.

 

 

I think they did that to cheat a little and just use the glass to make it a fog light.

[HOrnbrod]

 

Eagle... I hate to start chopping on your limb but... check out fresnel lenses.  Most often associated with light houses and in our every day lives.. the lenses in traffic lights that can be seen only from a given direction.  The Navy uses them on aircraft carriers in their Fresnel Lens Optical Landing System.  A stabilized light source/glide slope reference for the pilots when making their landings.  I was the lens tech on USS Saratoga 1973-75.  The lens boxes used Fresnel lenses and I do not remember there even being a reflector in them.  The light pattern was similar to a fog light pattern only with a sharp cutoff top and bottom.  I honestly think the lens has a far greater affect on the light pattern while the reflector would influence the intensity.  Just my 2 cents.

 

Who really thinks Chinese Auto Replacement Parts (C.R.A.P. aka CRAP)  Are made to military grade standards????

 

Chinese Auto Replacement Parts = C.A.R.P. = Bottom Feeders

[yxmj]

18 posts away from cracking the top off that bottle.... :rock on:

[HOrnbrod]

17 now.  :cheers:

[redwolf624]

might as well put that bottle away, i got the lights mounted today, adjusted and everything, only thing i gotta do is add a relay to make em shut off with the hi beams, sorry for only night lights, i can have day light pictures of em tomorrow when i'm on my lunch break,

 

 

Redwolf

[yxmj]

Bottle gets cracked and we drink to your success...

 

[Oyaji]

Bottle gets cracked and we drink to your success...

 

.

Ummm  - that's premature ebullition! He isn't done until he has bought the relay and installed it.

.

14 to go, and counting... :popcorn: . 

[yxmj]

 

Bottle gets cracked and we drink to your success...

 

.

Ummm  - that's premature ebullition! He isn't done until he has bought the relay and installed it.

.

14 to go, and counting... :popcorn: . 

 

Am I missing something?  :hmm:

 

I thought by the pics above it was mission accomplished? :dunno:

 

Have I been Duped...... :fs1:

[Oyaji]

 

 

Bottle gets cracked and we drink to your success...

 

 

.

Ummm  - that's premature ebullition! He isn't done until he has bought the relay and installed it.

.

14 to go, and counting... :popcorn: . 

 

Am I missing something?  :hmm:

 

I thought by the pics above it was mission accomplished? :dunno:

 

Have I been Duped...... :fs1:

.

Och, aye, I reckon you did not read "ye olde  fine print"...

.

12 to go, and counting! 

[yxmj]

I will make a trip to the store to get a fresh bottle..........as soon as I am done this one

[Blue88Comanche]

I wish I had fog lights on my Comanche... on the plus side I already had the factory wiring hooked up about a year now... Just need lights and figure out how to mount them with my grille guard.

[Oyaji]

I will make a trip to the store to get a fresh bottle..........as soon as I am done this one

.

Better hurry, then - just  9 more posts to go 'til 100!

[redwolf624]

hey now, the mission was for me to get em mounted and workin, not workin legally currect  :yes: i gotta find my hi beam relay first but that's for sunday when i'm not doin anything, trust me, they will get legally fixed :D

 

Redwolf

[Oyaji]

hey now, the mission was for me to get em mounted and workin, not workin legally currect  :yes: i gotta find my hi beam relay first but that's for sunday when i'm not doin anything, trust me, they will get legally fixed :D

 

Redwolf

.

Actually, no - the bet was back on page 3 ;):

.

 

My 2 cents......I would bet a bottle of Bourbon that this thread goes 100 + posts before and lights get purchased and mounted correctly.  :rotf:

.

Better get crackin' - only 7 more posts to go 'til 100! :teehee: .

[HOrnbrod]

To redwolf: I'd like to see more wiring detail pics, in the daytime. I don't think you have any relays or even a switch wired in yet, just a hot wire to the battery. Also the lamps look crooked on your bumper................

[skidoo_j]

 

check this out eagle, section 10 is on drivin lights http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?000+reg+19VAC30-70-530

 

http://lis.virginia.gov/000/reg/Toc19030.htm.htm that's the home page that my state inspector refers to if anything is questioned,

 

Redwolf

 

Yeah?

 

Did you read it? There's a lot in there that applies directly to you:

 

>9VAC30-70-530. Auxiliary lamps: backup; cornering; driving; fog; spot and warning.

 

A. Auxiliary lamps on a vehicle consist of seven general types: backup lamps (SAE-R), cornering lamps (SAE-K), driving lamps (SAE-Y), front fog lamps with an amber or clear lens (SAE-F) and rear fog lamps with red lens (SAE-F2), spot lamps (SAE-O), warning lamps (SAE-W), and daytime running lamps (DRLs) (SAE-Y2).

This immediately tells you that FOG lights are different from DRIVING lights. They have a different SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) type code. You can't buy a driving light and call it a fog light ... even by changing the lens.

 

C. No more than four lamps, including two headlamps may be lighted at any time to provide general illumination ahead of the vehicle.

 

For an MJ, this means you can have two fog lights, two driving lights, or one of each. For your father's old car with the quad headlights, since driving lights come on with the high beams and he had four high beams already, he could not have added driving lights. He COULD have added two fog lights -- as long as they were wired to turn off when the high beams turned on.

 

 

K. Inspect for and reject if:

1. Vehicle has an auxiliary lamp being used for a purpose other than that for which it was approved.

 

Translation: You can't use a driving light as a fog light, or a fog light as a driving light.

 

K. Inspect for and reject if:

 

...

 

3. Vehicle is equipped with a combination of auxiliary lamps which include more than two fog lamps, or more than two spot lamps, or more than two driving lamps. Motor vehicles may be equipped with more than two fog or auxiliary lights; however, only two of these types of lights can be illuminated at any time. Reject a vehicle equipped with a headlamp mounted or used as an auxiliary lamp.

NOTE: Vehicles equipped from the factory, with two driving lamps should not be rejected.

 

Note specifically that it says vehicles equipped from the factory with two driving lights shall not be rejected. This is consistent with the state law.

 

K. Inspect for and reject if:

 

...

 

 

10. Driving lamps are not required. However, if installed they must operate and be inspected.

Inspect for and reject if:

a. Driving lamps are installed on vehicles equipped with the four-headlamp system, except the "F" type headlamp system.

b. A vehicle is equipped with more than two driving lamps.

c. Driving lamps are not of an approved type (DOT or SAE-Y) or have been altered.

d. The color of the lamp is other than white.

e. The lens has a piece broken from it or is rotated away from its proper position. The lens may have one or more cracks provided an off-color light does not project through the crack or cracks.

f. Wiring or electrical connections are defective or filaments do not burn.

g. Any driving lamp is mounted above the level of the regular headlamps, or is not mounted firmly to prevent excessive vibration.

h. Driving lamps are not wired so that they will burn only when the high beams of the regular headlamps are activated.

i. Driving lamps are not aimed so that the center of the hot spot drops three inches in 25 feet so that the hot spot is directly ahead of the lamp.

NOTE: Driving lamps must be aimed using the optical headlight aimer. A tolerance of four inches in 25 feet is allowed in both the horizontal and the vertical adjustment.

 

Driving lights MUST be wired so they only operate with the high beams on. You can't install driving lights and try to modify them to be fog lights.

 

11. Fog lamps are not required. However, if installed they must operate and be inspected.

Inspect for and reject if:

a. A vehicle may be equipped with more than two fog lamps; however, not more than two lamps can be illuminated at any time.

b. Lamps are not of an approved type (SAE or DOT-F or F2) or a lamp has been altered.

c. The lens is other than clear or amber. (Fog lamps may have black end bulbs or small metal caps over the end of the bulb.)

d. The lens has a piece broken from it or is rotated away from its proper position. The lens may have one or more cracks provided an off-color light does not project through the crack or cracks.

e. Wiring or electrical connections are defective or filaments do not burn.

f. Any fog lamp is mounted above the level of the regular headlamps, or is not mounted firmly.

g. Lamps are not wired and aimed according to the following instructions:

(1) Fog lamps are general illumination lamps as covered in 19VAC30-70-160 D. They must burn through the tail light circuit even if on a separate switch. If installed on a vehicle with a four-headlamp system or a vehicle equipped with driving lamps, they must be wired into the low beam circuit.

(2) Fog lamps must be aimed so that the top edge of the high intensity zone is set at the horizontal centerline and the left edge of the high intensity zone is set at the vertical centerline. (Same as low beam headlights.)

NOTE: Fog lamps must be aimed using the optical headlight aimer.

(3) A tolerance of four inches in 25 feet is allowed in both the horizontal and the vertical adjustment.

 

Fog lights must be an approved type. No alterations allowed.

 

Statutory Authority

§ 46.2-1165 of the Code of Virginia.

 

This document is an administrative regulation. It is a "law," but only because it exists and functions under the "statutory authority" of the section of state statute I cited earlier. An administrative regulation can NEVER cancel, override, or contradict the statute. Statutes rule. The language of the statute is clear: you can add fog lights, but driving lights are allowed ONLY from the factory.

 

How would this apply to those LED light bars?   They must be for off road only use and have to have a cover on them when you're on the street?     Questioning because of the "# of lights allowed"   so is each led a "light" or each housing considered a light? 

[fiatslug87]

Must be by housing, all the new BMWs, Audis and Benzs have the multi LED "lash" lights.

 

5 to go.

[Eagle]

hey now, the mission was for me to get em mounted and workin, not workin legally currect  :yes: i gotta find my hi beam relay first but that's for sunday when i'm not doin anything, trust me, they will get legally fixed :D

 

Redwolf

 

Good luck on that -- there is no high beam relay.

[Eagle]

hey now, the mission was for me to get em mounted and workin, not workin legally currect  :yes: i gotta find my hi beam relay first but that's for sunday when i'm not doin anything, trust me, they will get legally fixed :D

 

Redwolf

 

Not if you have driving lights wired up to work the way fog lights are supposed to work ...

[redwolf624]

To redwolf: I'd like to see more wiring detail pics, in the daytime. I don't think you have any relays or even a switch wired in yet, just a hot wire to the battery. Also the lamps look crooked on your bumper................

 

i actually have everything wired in, the light wire comin from the lights to the switch, black for a ground and grounded, and my power wire is actually wired into my fuse box for an ignition switch, and i know they look crooked, but they're adjusted right, actually when and had em checked yesterday after work

 

hey now, the mission was for me to get em mounted and workin, not workin legally currect  :yes: i gotta find my hi beam relay first but that's for sunday when i'm not doin anything, trust me, they will get legally fixed :D

 

Redwolf

 

Good luck on that -- there is no high beam relay.

no hi beam relay?! how do the hi beams come on then?

 

Redwolf

[skidoo_j]

 I hope you're stating the power to control the relay is coming off an acc connection in the fuse box and not the power for the lights.   The power for the lights should be getting pulled direct from the battery to the relay to the lamps. 

 

The high beams are controlled (direct power no relay) by a switch mounted on the steering column about knee height(a pushrod from the yoke presses the switch, kinda like a monkey with a stick to eat ants).    I'd suggest (assuming your relays are under the hood)   you simply put a splice on one of the high beam positive wires and simply run it to the override relay.  

 

 

 

100th post!!!