Fog Lights

[HOrnbrod]

Even if your MJ did not receive fog lamps from the factory, the wiring from the dash out to the 10-pin connector located of the left front bulkhead is already there. All you have to do is add a stock ON/OFF switch in the dash, plug the existing connector behind the right dash switch plate to it, then pickup the IGN switched 12V at pin 10 of the 10-pin connector. Use this switched 12V to trigger the first relay on Skidoo's wiring diagram. The factory fog lamp dash-to-front bulkhead wiring is already there - why not use it.

[redwolf624]

 

gotcha, bought fog lights yesterday from advance, they didn't come with a relay but it had all the wires and a huse  :dunno:  :???: took em back though cause i didn't like how the housin was plastic and the lense was glass,

 

 

 

Redwolf

 

Almost all of them today have plastic housings.

 

Plastic doesn't rust.

yeah but ya shoulda seen how poor this plastic was, plus plastic lenses suit me better :)

 

Redwolf

[Howley]

With my factory fog lights can they be re-wired to the above diagram so I can turn them on with or with out the regular or high beams on?

[Eagle]

With my factory fog lights can they be re-wired to the above diagram so I can turn them on with or with out the regular or high beams on?

 

Of course.

 

Next you'll ask "How?" That's going to take some time, because I don't know where I put my FSM with the wiring diagrams for the factory foglight setup.

[HOrnbrod]

Simple. Just change the original fog lamp relay coil HI-beam 12V feed to an 12V IGN-switched feed.

[Eagle]

Simple. Just change the original fog lamp relay coil HI-beam 12V feed to an 12V IGN-switched feed.

 

The originals were tapped off the low beams, not the high beams. If you change that to a switched ignition feed, the fogs will operate any time you have the ignition on but they WON'T go off when you switch to high beams, and the law requires that they do so. That's why Skidoo's wiring diagram uses two relays.

[HOrnbrod]

Of course. Howley was asking to break the law. And he has factory fogs.

 

I'd never break that law.  :yes:  Howley, if you need a wiring diagram to do what you ask, shoot me a PM with your email address.

[Eagle]

Of course. Howley was asking to break the law. And he has factory fogs.

 

I'd never break that law.  :yes:  Howley, if you need a wiring diagram to do what you ask, shoot me a PM with your email address.

 

Now, now. Sarcasm ill becomes you.

 

Skidoo's diagram does NOT violate the law, because the second relay (tapped off the high beams) is normally closed, and when it sees power it turns off the fogs. Howley asked how to modify the factory setup to do the same thing. It can be done, but it will require the addition of a second relay in addition to relocating the primary power tap.

 

I can figure out the changes needed and I'd be happy to do so ... once I find my wiring diagram book. If you have yours and want to draw it up, by all means go for it.

[HOrnbrod]

With my factory fog lights can they be re-wired to the above diagram so I can turn them on with or with out the regular or high beams on?

 

Howley's post. As I read it, he wants to turn on his fogs at will; by themselves, w. or w/o the head lamps, HI or LO beam. As I do. If I'm reading his post correctly, the answer is yes, and no additional rely is required. And I fully understand Skidoo's fine wiring diagram, but this is not what Howley is asking.

[Eagle]

 

With my factory fog lights can they be re-wired to the above diagram so I can turn them on with or with out the regular or high beams on?

 

Howley's post. As I read it, he wants to turn on his fogs at will; by themselves, w. or w/o the head lamps, HI or LO beam. As I do. If I'm reading his post correctly, the answer is yes, and no additional rely is required. And I fully understand Skidoo's fine wiring diagram, but this is not what Howley is asking.

 

I guess we're reading his post differently. What he wrote was:

 

With my factory fog lights can they be re-wired to the above diagram so I can turn them on with or with out the regular or high beams on?

 

The factory setup requires that the headlights be on to use the foglights, but they do go off when you switch to high beams. I interpret Howley's question as asking how to change that so he can run the fogs either with headlights (the way they work now) or with parking lights or no lights. Since his present setup kills the fogs with high beams, to convert to on with no headlights and to maintain the high beam off "feature" requires adding a relay. He asked how to convert to "the above diagram" ... which has the two relays.

[skidoo_j]

Holly hell this has gotten beaten like a dead horse.   Now my VW GTI has a separate bulb for high and low in separated chambers, I've wired so I can have My highs, Low, and fogs on all at once.  I drive alot of rural roads late at night and this makes it near daylight.   Very usefull when searching the tree lines for eyes.     

 

 I can also just run the markers, or markers with fogs.  best scenario when there is actually fog.  

[Eagle]

 I can also just run the markers, or markers with fogs.  best scenario when there is actually fog.  

 

The above statement is true. I agree completely.

 

That said -- running your fogs with the high beams is illegal under federal law and under the laws of many states. That's why no factory fogs come set up to do it.

[Oyaji]

Holly hell this has gotten beaten like a dead horse.   Now my VW GTI has a separate bulb for high and low in separated chambers, I've wired so I can have My highs, Low, and fogs on all at once.  I drive alot of rural roads late at night and this makes it near daylight.   Very usefull when searching the tree lines for eyes.     

 

 I can also just run the markers, or markers with fogs.  best scenario when there is actually fog.  

:agree: Being able to see at night is a good thing... but only up to the point that it interferes with other drivers being able to see, too. Out in the boondocks (like where I live), this most often a non-issue, though.

[redwolf624]

got a question, finally gonna get around to mountin my "fog lights" i ended up buyin drivin lights that i'll eventually put orange or yellow lenses on, but how to i mount em to the bumper, do i have to take the bumper off or is there an easier way?

 

Redwolf

[Oyaji]

got a question, finally gonna get around to mountin my "fog lights" i ended up buyin drivin lights that i'll eventually put orange or yellow lenses on, but how to i mount em to the bumper, do i have to take the bumper off or is there an easier way?

 

Redwolf

Driving lights  cast a narrow long-distance beam (farther than high-beams do) and are quite different from fog lights, which cast a wide, shallow, flat beam (good for shining under fog to reduce glare).  For that reason, FMVSS law requires driving lights to be wired to come on only with the high beams. For the driving I generally do, I prefer driving lights so I can see deer well off in the distance, so I use driving lights (YMMV).         

.

With regard to mounting - I guess the hardest bit would be the wiring, so removing the bumper would give you additional space to work. I am lazy that way and will accept a certain amount of skinned knuckles to get the job done the harder way,  just getting by with less room to work if I think it is faster.... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out?  :D

[redwolf624]

 

got a question, finally gonna get around to mountin my "fog lights" i ended up buyin drivin lights that i'll eventually put orange or yellow lenses on, but how to i mount em to the bumper, do i have to take the bumper off or is there an easier way?

 

Redwolf

Driving lights  cast a narrow long-distance beam (farther than high-beams do) and are quite different from fog lights, which cast a wide, shallow, flat beam (good for shining under fog to reduce glare).  For that reason, FMVSS law requires driving lights to be wired to come on only with the high beams. For the driving I generally do, I prefer driving lights so I can see deer well off in the distance, so I use driving lights (YMMV).         

.

With regard to mounting - I guess the hardest bit would be the wiring, so removing the bumper would give you additional space to work. I am lazy that way and will accept a certain amount of skinned knuckles to get the job done the harder way if I think it is faster.... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out? :D

i did, looks closed off like a tube bumper or somethin unless the plastic dirt skirt is in the way  :dunno: can't see a way to take that bumper off either :( and if lights are aimed right they can be used for anything with the right modification, just throwin my 2 cent out there :D

 

Redwolf

[HOrnbrod]

... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out?  :D

 

Yes, this would be a good thing for you to do. Couple of tips:

 

1.  There should be two holes in the top face of the bumper maybe covered with plastic plugs. These holes are normally used to mount the lamps if you purchased the low profile rectangular lights normally used on MJ/XJ vehicles. Jeep originally used Marchal halogen lamps.

 

2.  If you remove the bottom two bumper mounting mounting bolts, this will allow you to pivot the bumper up a couple of inches and give you more room to attach the lamp mounting hardware behind the bumper.

[Eagle]

 

Driving lights  cast a narrow long-distance beam (farther than high-beams do) and are quite different from fog lights, which cast a wide, shallow, flat beam (good for shining under fog to reduce glare).  For that reason, FMVSS law requires driving lights to be wired to come on only with the high beams. For the driving I generally do, I prefer driving lights so I can see deer well off in the distance, so I use driving lights (YMMV).         

 

.

With regard to mounting - I guess the hardest bit would be the wiring, so removing the bumper would give you additional space to work. I am lazy that way and will accept a certain amount of skinned knuckles to get the job done the harder way if I think it is faster.... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out? :D

i did, looks closed off like a tube bumper or somethin unless the plastic dirt skirt is in the way  :dunno: can't see a way to take that bumper off either :( and if lights are aimed right they can be used for anything with the right modification, just throwin my 2 cent out there :D

 

Redwolf

 

No, they can't. Because the lenses are different, and the reflectors are different, so the lights throw light in a completely different pattern. Aiming driving lights low enough to not blind on-coming drivers would make them useless as driving lights, and because the beam is very narrow they would also be useless as fog lights.

 

And the fact remains, however you aim them they ARE driving lights, and the law for driving lights is that they can operate ONLY with the high beams ... while the law for fog lights is that they canNOT operate with the high beams. Skidoo's excellent wiring diagram is NOT correct for driving lights. It can be modified to work for driving lights, but as drawn it is WRONG if your lights are driving lights.

 

And, by the way, just putting a yellow lens on a driving light doesn't make it a fog light.

[redwolf624]

 

... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out?  :D

 

Yes, this would be a good thing for you to do. Couple of tips:

 

1.  There should be two holes in the top face of the bumper maybe covered with plastic plugs. These holes are normally used to mount the lamps if you purchased the low profile rectangular lights normally used on MJ/XJ vehicles. Jeep originally used Marchal halogen lamps.

 

2.  If you remove the bottom two bumper mounting mounting bolts, this will allow you to pivot the bumper up a couple of inches and give you more room to attach the lamp mounting hardware behind the bumper.

bottom 2 bolts that are star flange bolts right on the bumper?

 

Redwolf

[redwolf624]

 

 

Driving lights  cast a narrow long-distance beam (farther than high-beams do) and are quite different from fog lights, which cast a wide, shallow, flat beam (good for shining under fog to reduce glare).  For that reason, FMVSS law requires driving lights to be wired to come on only with the high beams. For the driving I generally do, I prefer driving lights so I can see deer well off in the distance, so I use driving lights (YMMV).         

 

.

With regard to mounting - I guess the hardest bit would be the wiring, so removing the bumper would give you additional space to work. I am lazy that way and will accept a certain amount of skinned knuckles to get the job done the harder way if I think it is faster.... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out? :D

i did, looks closed off like a tube bumper or somethin unless the plastic dirt skirt is in the way  :dunno: can't see a way to take that bumper off either :( and if lights are aimed right they can be used for anything with the right modification, just throwin my 2 cent out there :D

 

Redwolf

 

No, they can't. Because the lenses are different, and the reflectors are different, so the lights throw light in a completely different pattern. Aiming driving lights low enough to not blind on-coming drivers would make them useless as driving lights, and because the beam is very narrow they would also be useless as fog lights.

 

And the fact remains, however you aim them they ARE driving lights, and the law for driving lights is that they can operate ONLY with the high beams ... while the law for fog lights is that they canNOT operate with the high beams. Skidoo's excellent wiring diagram is NOT correct for driving lights. It can be modified to work for driving lights, but as drawn it is WRONG if your lights are driving lights.

 

And, by the way, just putting a yellow lens on a driving light doesn't make it a fog light.

technically that's how it should be by law but the inspectors around here are so stupid i could slap neon green show lights on my bumper, wire it in and tell the inspector they're fog lights and they'll believe it,

 

Redwolf

[Oyaji]

 

 

 

Driving lights  cast a narrow long-distance beam (farther than high-beams do) and are quite different from fog lights, which cast a wide, shallow, flat beam (good for shining under fog to reduce glare).  For that reason, FMVSS law requires driving lights to be wired to come on only with the high beams. For the driving I generally do, I prefer driving lights so I can see deer well off in the distance, so I use driving lights (YMMV).         

 

.

With regard to mounting - I guess the hardest bit would be the wiring, so removing the bumper would give you additional space to work. I am lazy that way and will accept a certain amount of skinned knuckles to get the job done the harder way if I think it is faster.... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out? :D

i did, looks closed off like a tube bumper or somethin unless the plastic dirt skirt is in the way  :dunno: can't see a way to take that bumper off either :( and if lights are aimed right they can be used for anything with the right modification, just throwin my 2 cent out there :D

 

Redwolf

 

No, they can't. Because the lenses are different, and the reflectors are different, so the lights throw light in a completely different pattern. Aiming driving lights low enough to not blind on-coming drivers would make them useless as driving lights, and because the beam is very narrow they would also be useless as fog lights.

 

And the fact remains, however you aim them they ARE driving lights, and the law for driving lights is that they can operate ONLY with the high beams ... while the law for fog lights is that they canNOT operate with the high beams. Skidoo's excellent wiring diagram is NOT correct for driving lights. It can be modified to work for driving lights, but as drawn it is WRONG if your lights are driving lights.

 

And, by the way, just putting a yellow lens on a driving light doesn't make it a fog light.

technically that's how it should be by law but the inspectors around here are so stupid i could slap neon green show lights on my bumper, wire it in and tell the inspector they're fog lights and they'll believe it,

 

Redwolf

.

FYI - I have been pulled over twice in Florida and once in Alabama by highway patrolmen who first raged at me for my lights, then ran me through a test on the side of the road to see if they were properly wired according to the law. As a matter of fact, they were not - but I got away with it all 3 times by switching the lights using both hands (one to switch the hi-lo beams, the other on the driving lights switch) manually on their command. I am not sure they actually knew the law exactly, but they were sure some kinda mad at me (though they did let me go without a ticket all 3 times).

.

Moral of the story - don't be a dumbass  (like I was when I was young) and use annoyingly  and hazardously bright lights in town, and make sure to wire up your lights to be legal.

[redwolf624]

 

 

 

 

Driving lights  cast a narrow long-distance beam (farther than high-beams do) and are quite different from fog lights, which cast a wide, shallow, flat beam (good for shining under fog to reduce glare).  For that reason, FMVSS law requires driving lights to be wired to come on only with the high beams. For the driving I generally do, I prefer driving lights so I can see deer well off in the distance, so I use driving lights (YMMV).         

 

.

With regard to mounting - I guess the hardest bit would be the wiring, so removing the bumper would give you additional space to work. I am lazy that way and will accept a certain amount of skinned knuckles to get the job done the harder way if I think it is faster.... but man! why don't you stick your nose under the bumper and figure it out? :D

i did, looks closed off like a tube bumper or somethin unless the plastic dirt skirt is in the way  :dunno: can't see a way to take that bumper off either :( and if lights are aimed right they can be used for anything with the right modification, just throwin my 2 cent out there :D

 

Redwolf

 

No, they can't. Because the lenses are different, and the reflectors are different, so the lights throw light in a completely different pattern. Aiming driving lights low enough to not blind on-coming drivers would make them useless as driving lights, and because the beam is very narrow they would also be useless as fog lights.

 

And the fact remains, however you aim them they ARE driving lights, and the law for driving lights is that they can operate ONLY with the high beams ... while the law for fog lights is that they canNOT operate with the high beams. Skidoo's excellent wiring diagram is NOT correct for driving lights. It can be modified to work for driving lights, but as drawn it is WRONG if your lights are driving lights.

 

And, by the way, just putting a yellow lens on a driving light doesn't make it a fog light.

technically that's how it should be by law but the inspectors around here are so stupid i could slap neon green show lights on my bumper, wire it in and tell the inspector they're fog lights and they'll believe it,

 

Redwolf

.

FYI - I have been pulled over twice in Florida and once in Alabama by highway patrolmen who first raged at me for my lights, then ran me through a test on the side of the road to see if they were properly wired according to the law. As a matter of fact, they were not - but I got away with it all 3 times by switching the lights using both hands (one to switch the hi-lo beams, the other on the driving lights switch) manually on their command. I am not sure they actually knew the law exactly, but they were sure some kinda mad at me (though they did let me go without a ticket all 3 times).

.

Moral of the story - don't be a dumbass  (like I was when I was young) and use annoyingly  and hazardously bright lights in town, and make sure to wire up your lights to be legal.

oh i know, today i'm goin down to the only state inspector i go to now, since he knew my truck had neutral safety switch when it was built, and askin him bout the fog light drivin light thing, if indeed the state of virginia requires drivin lights only to be wired to turn on with hi beams then i'm takin em back to walmart and goin on another holly quest for fog lights that are water prove,

 

Redwolf

[yxmj]

My 2 cents......I would bet a bottle of Bourbon that this thread goes 100 + posts before and lights get purchased and mounted correctly.  :rotf:

[Eagle]

oh i know, today i'm goin down to the only state inspector i go to now, since he knew my truck had neutral safety switch when it was built, and askin him bout the fog light drivin light thing, if indeed the state of virginia requires drivin lights only to be wired to turn on with hi beams then i'm takin em back to walmart and goin on another holly quest for fog lights that are water prove,

 

I forgot that you're in Virginia.

 

Do you remember when the Liberty first came out to replace the Cherokee? One of the factory options on the Libby was a set of four off-road lights mounted on the roof. Guess which state did NOT allow that option to be sold within its borders. If you guessed "Virginia," you win the game. Virginia is very strict on lights.

 

But, even if they weren't, I don't know about Pete but I'm not going to go on a public forum and recommend to people that they knowingly break the law. The law is the law. You're going to be making your own wiring harness from scratch. It's not much more work to do it right than to do it wrong, so why not do it right?

 

And then there's the issue of the right kind of lights. Driving lights DON'T WORK as fog lights. If you install driving lights when you want fog lights, you are WASTING TIME AND MONEY AND EFFORT.

 

Just do it right, for Gawd's sake. Get the right lights for the job, and wire them in according to the law. Why are you now so interested in doing it completely wrong, when you started off asking us how to do it right?

[Oyaji]

:agree:.

.

Ayup - Eagle is dead on.

.

To carry it further, every set of lights sold carries instructions that ship with them, which tell you  the requirements  (at least the basics) of how the lights must be wired to operate legally. If you want to see whence the requirements come, go read FMVSS 49 CFR Part 108 (FMVSS = Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, and CFR = Code of Federal Regulations), which mandates lighting requirements for all motor vehicles sold in the USA. Since the requirements are FEDERAL, they apply to all 50 states - of which Virginia is one. Federal law trumps state law, so the only difference would be if Virginia ADDED additional requirements.