9/11. May We Never Forget

[HOrnbrod]

[onlyinajeep726]

United We Stand!

 

[buffalob]

Hear hear...It cannot be said enough.

[AeroNautical]

Then:

 

And now:

 

[johnj92131]

Watched the second tower get hit live on CNBC. My wife was in hospital with a major stroke. Been to NYC a couple of times watching th new tower top out. Visited Ellis Island for my second time in 60 years. Also spent time at statue of liberty. Great view from the top of Rockefeller Center.

[knever3]

I miss that skyline, those twin towers really defined New York city.  The new Freedom tower, aka One World Trade is ugly from the pictures, it ruins the skyline imho.  I just wish they rebuilt the old ones, stronger.  It's hard to build a sky scraper to take a direct hit at 350mph from a jumbo jet.

 

The Chrysler building has always been my favorite anyway.

[carnuck]

My stepdaughter was supposed to be on the first flight (they were held over leaving France by an unruly passenger after their honeymoon and they were nearly to NY when it happened) and just the week before my wife and I were on it, transferring from a Nashville flight headed home to Seattle after visiting her folks.

[hassyfoto]

A second date that "will live in Infamy"

God Bless America

[Comanche County]

Was in 2/75 Rgr Bn doing PT that morning on the west coast when it happened....marched in to my guys and said, "Get ready, we're going to war!"

[Oyaji]

I miss that skyline, those twin towers really defined New York city.  The new Freedom tower, aka One World Trade is ugly from the pictures, it ruins the skyline imho.  I just wish they rebuilt the old ones, stronger.  It's hard to build a sky scraper to take a direct hit at 350mph from a jumbo jet.

 

The Chrysler building has always been my favorite anyway.

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At an engineering convention in 1998, I happened to meet a Japanese engineer who had worked for Minoru Yamasaki, the lead architect who designed those towers. He told me those buildings were designed to withstand impact from not 1 but from 2 Boeing 707s, the biggest airliners flying at the time  the construction plans were made (back in the mid-1960s, quite similar in size, mass, and fuel capacity to the 767s that hit the towers in 2001). He also told me that the buildings were obsolete before they were first occupied, in part because the fireproofing cladding  on the steel skeleton was asbestos. Although superior  to other materials at resisting heat,  by the time the towers were completed the evidence against asbestos as a health hazard could no longer be denied, and because of the asbestos content in combination with the urban environment, demolition plans were economically prohibitive to implement.     

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Yes indeed, this date should never be forgotten, but perhaps not for the reasons most generally recognized.           

[Keyav8r]

Oyagi, your last sentence arouses my curiosity. For what reasons do you think the date should be remembered?

[Oyaji]

Because I suspect it was the most recent time that America was manipulated into war under false pretenses.   

[nitroxsteve]

Because I suspect it was the most recent time that America was manipulated into war under false pretenses.   

You can agree or disagree with what happened in the days and years after 9/11 but on that day we were attacked and a lot of innocent people and a lot of our police and fire fighters were lost and that is what needs to be remembered.

[onlyinajeep726]

You can agree or disagree with what happened in the days and years after 9/11 but on that day we were attacked and a lot of innocent people and a lot of our police and fire fighters were lost and that is what needs to be remembered.

:agree:

[Minuit]

 

Because I suspect it was the most recent time that America was manipulated into war under false pretenses.   

You can agree or disagree with what happened in the days and years after 9/11 but on that day we were attacked and a lot of innocent people and a lot of our police and fire fighters were lost and that is what needs to be remembered.

:thumbsup:

[Oyaji]

 

Because I suspect it was the most recent time that America was manipulated into war under false pretenses.   

You can agree or disagree with what happened in the days and years after 9/11 but on that day we were attacked and a lot of innocent people and a lot of our police and fire fighters were lost and that is what needs to be remembered.

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Aye.

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Indeed, the losses  sustained on that day are terrible to contemplate, and remembrances are made  all the more poignant by the sacrifices and conspicuous heroics  of those who did their best   to aid their stricken fellows, and  in so doing paid the ultimate price. 

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This adds  immeasurably to the slow burn I feel when I find I must question not the fact that we were attacked that day - but instead must ask by whom?

[Keyav8r]

Ah, yes, I undstand now. Just as I must consider if It was actually JFK who was shot. And, if Hitler really committed suicide or he living in Argentina. And, if the sightings of Elvis working at 7-11 are accurate. And, if anyone actually believes a President's birth certificate could be photoshopped.

[Oyaji]

Ah, yes, I undstand now. Just as I must consider if It was actually JFK who was shot. And, if Hitler really committed suicide or he living in Argentina. And, if the sightings of Elvis working at 7-11 are accurate. And, if anyone actually believes a President's birth certificate could be photoshopped.

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It must be nice and comforting to believe that your government would never lie to you. Considering history, you would be dead wrong, of course - but  that belief  must still  be very  nice  and comforting.

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Further, failure to ask questions is  the greatest disservice to the victims  that  we here honor.

[vaquaro]

 

Ah, yes, I undstand now. Just as I must consider if It was actually JFK who was shot. And, if Hitler really committed suicide or he living in Argentina. And, if the sightings of Elvis working at 7-11 are accurate. And, if anyone actually believes a President's birth certificate could be photoshopped.

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It must be nice and comforting to believe that your government would never lie to you. Considering history, you would be dead wrong, of course - but  that belief  must still  be very  nice  and comforting.

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Further, failure to ask questions is  the greatest disservice to the victims  that  we here honor.

Unfortunately , All of our " American ( Canada- USA- Mexico ) Governments " believe we Citizens are gullible and not worthy to evaluate the truth .Power hungery politicians feed / mis-inform us on a regular basis to serve their purposes , Not ours as they were elected to protect and honour . I doubt we will ever know the real truth behind the the slaughter of thousands of "Innocents" on that tragic day . I am very sad to say .

[HOrnbrod]

Do you think governmental mis-information is unique to our little corner of the world? All governments on every continent selectively leak information and/or mis-information to their citizens in order to preserve the peace, maintain the status quo, and most importantly to prevent anarchy or revolution that could disrupt their governmental power base. Most notorious are the Asian and Middle East countries, a never ending cauldron of civil unrest. Our government has been guilty of feeding us mis-information, Viet Nam is one example I am quite familiar with, but I don't think this remotely applies to what happened on September 11, 2001. But, here we can freely discuss issues like this in any public forum we choose, freely investigate, and demand results. The truth all comes out eventually. Try discussing issues like this on a public forum (if you can) questioning your government in Japan, Iran, Uganda or Panama to name a very few. You won't be around too long.

[Oyaji]

Do you think governmental mis-information is unique to our little corner of the world? All governments on every continent selectively leak information and/or mis-information to their citizens in order to preserve the peace, maintain the status quo, and most importantly to prevent anarchy or revolution that could disrupt their governmental power base. Most notorious are the Asian and Middle East countries, a never ending cauldron of civil unrest. Our government has been guilty of feeding us mis-information, Viet Nam is one example I am quite familiar with, but I don't think this remotely applies to what happened on September 11, 2001. But, here we can freely discuss issues like this in any public forum we choose, freely investigate, and demand results. The truth all comes out eventually. Try discussing issues like this on a public forum (if you can) questioning your government in Japan, Iran, Uganda or Panama to name a very few. You won't be around too long.

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Yessir, I agree with almost  all of what you posted, and wish I could agree with it all. But I think you are off the mark on 2 of your points: that of mis-information  about what happened on 9-11-2001, and whether we really can still  freely discuss issues like this in America.

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Regarding mis-information, what I mentioned above in my first post in this thread was not something I read - it was from a first-hand experience. It was why when  on live television I saw the second plane impact and both the towers fall a short time later, I  was subject to  terrible disbelief from the moment of the event onwards. All information I acquired  and all my deductions since that day have pointed me in a direction different from what our government and the media have led us to believe.

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The role of the mainstream media has changed from public watchdog to propaganda arm of the government. Here is an example - this guy's  ranting  still beggars the imagination:

.

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With regard to freedom of speech and unlawful search and seizure, our rights are being eroded daily. For examples you need look no further than the inroads of the NSA and the secret prisons like "Gitmo", where mere suspicion can cause a person to vanish forever without trial, by executive order, without oversight nor accountability.

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And think on it: all this has come to pass because of  public outrage and willingness to trade freedom for "security", over what ultimately was nothing more than a spectacular act of vandalism and murder committed (at least ostensibly) by individuals, not nations.    

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And who profited? Certainly not the nations blamed. Rather defense contractors and the new secret police ("Homeland Security" and the industries developed to support them) cashed in big time. There are other profiteers as well (most particularly the Federal Reserve Bank,  the entire banking system, and the American economy, which without military support of the petro-dollar may well have collapsed... in fact it still may, regardless), and I would be happy to discuss them. I think right here in this thread is the most appropriate place to do so, and will be more than happy to take it up with any interested reader. I think it would be the very best way to honor the victims of 9/11.

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Finally, it is my most fervent hope that you are correct in your point that the truth all comes out, eventually, and that those truly to blame are held accountable within their own lifetimes.                       

[Oyaji]