What's the point of having Off Topic?

[Bonkers]

I'm just directing this one outward - not towards anyone in particular. This stems from the Bush/War thread lower down for reference.

 

Pete shut down the thread due to "several email complaints." At first I was pretty much okay with it, but then I started to seriously think about what had happened. After a couple of days of thinking I have decided I am not amused by this decision.

 

So I re-read the thread several times and other than a few pot-shot at illegals there really wasn't anything in that thread that was overly "heavy." This is typical bar-room quality conversation - no one was name calling or putting another member down, and other than our common loathing of illegals and hillary nothing truely offensive was being said. And the fact that everything being said was socially important leads me to believe there was some slight of hand here.

 

The online FAQs don't help - no where does it say we cannot criticize our governement or its operation. Nor does it say political matter is out of bounds.

 

So that leads me into the title of the thread - why even bother having an off-topic section if you really can't speak off topic? Jeep owners have opinions - some of them not as happy-go-lucky as others, but all of them open to the free public (assuming no death threats or other off-colour conversation occurs of course.) As a rule of thumb if a member (myself included) says something out of turn it should be made clear what the offense is, or at least identify who made the complaint. Right now I can only believe some Bush-lover with admin powers decided he/she didn't like what was being said and waved their magic wand.

 

And more importantly who's deciding what is considered off-limits for conversation? If these emailers don't like what's being said why not just say it instead of running to mommy (so to speak.) One of the great things about forums is that you really don't have to read anything that's being said - I don't like football so I don't read football posts. Hell, if controversy offends you at all you don't even need to enter the forum, let alone the individual topics..

 

Magic forum wands are fundamentally anti-American (I mean seriously wouldn't you think Stalin would have loved the ability to just close conversations with a wave of hand?) and if this is an anti-American club I'd like to know now.

[Kenosha Warrior]

I agree heartily, but I do feel Pete closed the thread for a reason other than the email complaints.

 

If this was my forum, I wouldn't let a thread like that grow. Last thing that needs to infect this forum is a bunch of juvenile crap.

 

 

 

Pete's forum, pete's rules, pete's actions.

[Pete M]

This was hardly the first time that I've gotten complaints about things, but I felt this one was a bit too "hot" to really let it get going. I've seen many other forums that relegate this sort of topic to a special forum so it stays far away of the main plaza of conversation. Plus, many times people post about subjects where there are great philosophical divides, the thing just drags on and on with a bunch of metaphorical shouting. If you want to have a discussion about the war, then it better be civil, without "ranting" and without name-calling (yeah, that includes the politicians too, Hillary is not stupid, and Bush is not a bastard, and the people who might vote for them are not idiots), and I doubt that this particular topic can be handled with such care. If you want to start another topic about the war, go right ahead, but please reference rule # 1 first:

http://comancheclub.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1239

Thanks,

--Pete

[JeepcoMJ]

Pete's right. and colton's right. really, it isn't our decision what is allowed on this forum, we have the privelage of using it because Pete created it.

 

and no politician is particularly stupid nor are their fans idiots...there is a right and a wrong candidate, simple as that.

 

thanks Pete

[Mitch]

:popcorn:

[mfpdm]

I'm new here so I won't stand to high on the soap box. I agree that this is a off topic section and should be open to whatever, but I also agree that somethings just might not fit that well. Even though I have recently started posting to the forum, I have lurk though it for a long time. I've always found it a place of pretty happy go lucky people willing to help you and not slam you for your opinion or your lack of knowledge. Not saying anything bad was in that thread but it seemed alittle out of place here and something I would see on a CNN blog. I've seen over time that anytime you discuss politics or religion things might get out of hand and someones feeling may get hurt. I feel the lock down was just a preventitive measure with good intentions. I come here to learn, laugh, and escape some of the day to day issues that can just bring ya down.

This is just my 2 cents. :cheers:

[GirsMJ86]

speakin of topics that could get heated....

 

I'm followin Mitch. :popcorn: :cheers:

 

Alex

[Oizarod115]

:dunno: i was confused when it happened, went to post when i first saw it ( a few days late i suppose) and was like LOCKED?! what?

 

but it does make sense. i just wanna be happy go lucky!

 

and given the number of "vets/current military people" in the club and the number of "civilians" it wouldn't take long to get out of hand.

 

we're allowed on NAXJA, you could strike up a thread there, i don't know if that would last or not; and people are a tad bit more rough around the edges.

[CWLONGSHOT]

Just a little interjection here..

 

Generally speaking there are two topics that each of our opinions on, should be kept to ourselves.

 

POLITICS and RELIGION

 

Generally speaking these are two subjects people feel very strongly about. For that reason should be avoided on forums like this one.

 

I like the guys on here and likely will only ever get a chance to meet a couple of you. Frankly, I don't want to know where you stand on these two topics.

 

CW

[Mitch]

Just a little interjection here..

 

Generally speaking there are two topics that each of our opinions on, should be kept to ourselves.

 

POLITICS and RELIGION

 

Generally speaking these are two subjects people feel very strongly about. For that reason should be avoided on forums like this one.

 

I like the guys on here and likely will only ever get a chance to meet a couple of you. Frankly, I don't want to know where you stand on these two topics.

 

CW

 

X2

 

:cheers:

 

(except someday I think I will meet CW.)

[lostissues]

Just a little interjection here..

 

Generally speaking there are two topics that each of our opinions on, should be kept to ourselves.

 

POLITICS and RELIGION

 

Generally speaking these are two subjects people feel very strongly about. For that reason should be avoided on forums like this one.

 

I like the guys on here and likely will only ever get a chance to meet a couple of you. Frankly, I don't want to know where you stand on these two topics.

 

CW

 

X2

 

:cheers:

 

(except someday I think I will meet CW.)

 

i also agree, the main thing is that i visit this forum because its about Comanches and all the fun stuff that goes along with them, i myself don't care about politics and the like. likewise as there are forums about Comanches, I'm positive there are forums about politics, they are more then willing to debate with you there, if someone invents a www.comancheclubandpolitics.com/forums (which i don't think will happen, it doesn't roll off the tongue) then there i won't mind sifting through the political talk to get to the comanche content. but here its straight forward pretty much every thing in this forum is about comanches and i love it for that fact, i also love that everyone is nice and here to help, i would hate to see the site be divided by difference of opinion.

 

i don't know if what i just typed even makes sense but i said what i was thinking.

 

also, we should have a New England Jeep party fun time bash (a little later in the year so i can have my truck running well) then all of us in this area can meet.

 

Jonathan

[Twisty]

Just a little interjection here..

 

Generally speaking there are two topics that each of our opinions on, should be kept to ourselves.

 

POLITICS and RELIGION

 

Generally speaking these are two subjects people feel very strongly about. For that reason should be avoided on forums like this one.

 

I like the guys on here and likely will only ever get a chance to meet a couple of you. Frankly, I don't want to know where you stand on these two topics.

 

CW

 

X2

 

:cheers:

 

(except someday I think I will meet CW.)

 

i also agree, the main thing is that i visit this forum because its about Comanches and all the fun stuff that goes along with them, i myself don't care about politics and the like. likewise as there are forums about Comanches, I'm positive there are forums about politics, they are more then willing to debate with you there, if someone invents a www.comancheclubandpolitics.com/forums (which i don't think will happen, it doesn't roll off the tongue) then there i won't mind sifting through the political talk to get to the comanche content. but here its straight forward pretty much every thing in this forum is about comanches and i love it for that fact, i also love that everyone is nice and here to help, i would hate to see the site be divided by difference of opinion.

 

i don't know if what i just typed even makes sense but i said what i was thinking.

 

also, we should have a New England Jeep party fun time bash (a little later in the year so i can have my truck running well) then all of us in this area can meet.

 

Jonathan

 

CW is a nice guy. I purchased a Renix 4.0 from him about a year ago. AND I agree about the NE MJ run...it would be a good time!

[Tracker]

I've always been impressed with how mellow this forum is. We come together here to learn, read, talk, and share Jeep stuff. :cheers:

If anyone really needs a dose of humanity and the internet at its worse try craigslist / Los Angeles / Rant and Rave.

[Mitch]

NOW SOMEBODY PASS ME A @#$%ING BEER!!! YEEEEEEAH!

 

:cheers:

[Pete M]

I can't find the slot in the modem, otherwise I'd email ya one. :D :cheers:

[mfpdm]

Just push the button on the front of your computer Pete, that ejects that fancy tray with the cup holder thingy for sending beer. :rotfl2:

:cheers:

[500 MJ]

I'm standing with CW on this one as well. We are here for Jeeps and thats all you will hear me talk about.

[Oizarod115]

I'm standing with CW on this one as well. We are here for Jeeps and thats all you will hear me talk about.

 

I'm with the beer drinkers! hell yeah! :cheers:

 

and CW too i suppose :brows:

[Eagle]

I'm basically here to talk about MJs, too. If I wanted to discuss politics I'd go to a political forum, and if I wanted to discuss religion I'd go to a religious forum. But that's begging the immediate question, though, of how off-topic things should be allowed to stray in the Off-Topic forum.

 

I'm currently an admin on one other forum, and I was a moderator on NAXJA when I was a director of the club. NAXJA doesn't prohibit politics and religion in their discussions. I don't spend much time on the NAXJA forum any more -- it has become a fairly unpleasant place to hang out, IMHO. That's sad. I was a founding member (still have Life Member status), but it has deteriorated.

 

The other forum, where I am active as an administrator, has a strict rule against discussion religion and politics -- for the aforementioned reason that they are both "loaded" topics, about which some people seem incapable of hold civil discussions without ultimately resorting to insults and name-calling, if not outright threats. It seems to work. I think we're over 11,000 members at this point, and flame wars are virtually non-existent. We have enough moderators to snuff them out quickly if they erupt, but the bottom line is by not allowing those two "hot button" classes of topic, we obviate the probability of a flame-fest breaking out.

 

I was rather astonished to see that thread pop up on here. My immediate reaction, I will admit, was to delete the whole thing. The other forum has a special area, available only to the moderators, where we can move things as a kind of quarantine while the "staff" discusses backchannel whether or not to allow it, lock it, or nuke it. We don't have that here, not do we have an entire cadre of moderators, and the software isn't as sophisticated. And it wasn't against any rule I could find. So I just PM'd Pete and asked what we should do with it.

 

He decided to lock it, and I support that decision. I think it is extremely unlikely that it could have run more than a day or two without getting ugly. To be honest, I also think it was poor judgement to put up a post like that on a Jeep-oriented forum in the first place. Off-topic should be used for emotion neutral things, like the weather or what you did at the lake over the weekend. Politics? Bad ju-ju. If you absolutely must discuss politics, go to one of the 15.7 zillion political forums out there on the Internet and join the fights. We don't need 'em here.

 

That's just my opinion, by the way, and does not represent the opinions of the management (which is Pete).

[Mitch]

To be honest, I also think it was poor judgement to put up a post like that on a Jeep-oriented forum in the first place.

 

x 2,000,000,000,000 + infinity.

 

 

Now pass me a beer..... in fact I have drank so much tonight that I went :Canadaflag:

 

:cheers:

[bigd44889]

i agree it was in bad taste but i would not have locked it i would have deleted it we come here to b/s about jeeps not to argue about b/s :headpop: :hateputers:

[pingpong]

Eagle well put.

[Pete M]

I'm glad bonkers started this thread, 'cause it gives us all a chance to talk about what happened. I realize now that I should have started a new post myself. I am sorry.

 

I've got just a couple more thoughts on this to clear up any confusion. I didn't shut it down because of the email complaints. I would have done the exact same thing without them. I just wanted to point out that I wasn't the only one that felt this way. Plus the decision to take action wasn't just mine. Eagle and I conferred and we both agreed that it needed to be nipped in the butt before it got out of hand (as political discussions usually do).

 

And last time I checked, America doesn't allow you to do whatever you want when ever you want. We have laws to curtail behavior and we have people in charge of us that make decisions that are (hopefully) made with the intent of the greater good and we (to a certain degree) trust them to do that. I apologize that y'all couldn't elect me. I didn't start the MJ Yahoo group, but it was placed in my care and I don't take that responsibility lightly. I don't like doing things in secret and would much rather let everyone know what's happening and why. That's why the topic was locked, not just deleted and swept under the rug.

 

If anyone wants me to start listing rule after rule, too bad, I'm not going to do it. I feel rule number 1 is sufficient to cover instances like this. I've not seen a war-on-terror discussion YET that didn't quickly dissolve into unfriendliness. But I still consider myself a noob at being a mod, and if I don't always handle things exactly as 841 different opinions might want me to, then I apologize. But I will not let this forum turn into anything other than a friendly place for MJ fans to congregate.

 

Once again, if anyone wants to have a polite discussion about the war, politics, religion or whatever, go for it. Just keep the rude insults, name-calling, gross exaggerations, juvenile assumptions, etc. to yourself or the magic forum wand will smite your words. :thwak:

--Pete

 

And just for the record, I am fiercely Independent. The political parties can both kiss my grits. :USAflag:

[Eagle]

And just for the record, I am fiercely Independent. The political parties can both kiss my grits. :USAflag:

I think I'm too old to be "fiercely" anything other than tired, but ... for the record ... I am and always have been an unaffiliated voter, so I too have no partiality for either of the major political parties. (I used to say I was "independent," but then some idiot started an Independent Party, so I had to go with "unaffiliated" in order to avoid being affiliated by verbal association.)

[Maveric]

well I agree with most of y'all on this subject, sounds like typical forum drama, and you see too much of that, this place is more like a bunch of friends with a common interest getting together and BSing, and haven't any of you heard not to mix your friends with other friends? my 'manche club pals I would think anything Jeep would suffice, if i was on a gun forum I'd talk about guns, and although you can have a comanche and a gun at the same time i wouldnt mix friends.

thats like mixing your drinking buddies with your non-drinking buddies.

 

now if i start talking in a british accent, don't act suprized. :laughin:

 

now me chums, lets all get together and 'ave ourselves a pint