Oddmodman Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Bunch of transmission questions here. To start with, for anyone that might be able to help me, PLEASE chime in, I desperately need help. I picked up an MJ, an '87 4.0 that has a pugeot BA10/5 in it that was supposedly "seized". This was thought to be the case because the shifter won't move into ANY gear. The only play the stick has is what it gets in neutral. However, by turning the input shaft, I proved that it was indeed NOT seized, because when I turned the shaft, the front axle yoke(?) turned as well. So if anyone has any idea why this transmission isn't seized, but isn't able to shift, I would :bowdown: at your feet and kiss your toeses. Here's the only info I know about the transmission: it was obvious that someone tore into it before, and I'm wondering if there's something that the assembler missed :hmm: . Is there a clip that commonly breaks, a gear that's easy to mix up with another that won't allow it to shift, anything like that that anyone knows about :dunno: Also, other, more general questions: Who is the manufacturer of the AX transmissions? Also, I hear the pugeot tranny is crap, and the AX-15 is the best you can get. But I don't hear anything about the AX5. How does the AX5 measure up to the other two in quality? Oh, and If I were to (theoretically) go from a pugeot to the AX5, what has to be changed, and do I need to shorten/lengthen the rear driveshaft? Thank you very much for reading my post. It is getting very close to too cold outside to :wrench: on things here in Alaska, and I need things running before snow. Any help I can get is most welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swirlytwirlys Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 don't do the ax5 swap be in the same boat with the ba10.... goax15.... i have the 4.0 with the ba10 setup gonna rock it til it blowa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The AX-15 and the AX-5 are (were) made by Aisin-Seiki, a Japanese company. The AX-5 is a lighter-duty, slightly smaller version of the AX-15. The AX-5 was used in the 4-cylinder XJs and MJs, the AX-15 was used with the 6-cylinder engine. If you could find a way to install an AX-5 behind a 4.0L, it wouldn't last very long at all. But ... since the bell housing is smaller and has a different bolt pattern, you would need a custom adapter to install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJeepNut Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I cannot speak to details about the failure. But I can confirm (as an owner thereof) that the Peugot transmission is crapola. It will take only light duty street use. If you plan on wheeling your MJ it will fail. If you drive it like you stole it, it will fail. If you haul a lot with it, it will fail. They are hella expensive to fix and I'm told somewhat trickier than the average to get right. The first rebuild on mine cost $1700. There was not a 2nd rebuild. When it failed the 2nd time after 18 months, the truck parked. Aisan-Warner is the AX15 mfgr and they make some very robust and reliable transmissions. But as with many things, it's about the application. They also make the AX5 but you won't want that in an MJ w/ the 4 liter. It was commonly used in AMC's and 4cyl. Jeeps. I DO have a Service Manual for the BA10. I can either send that by email or there should be somewhere on the forum to post publications and such... I'll put it up there once I figure out where it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richasco Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 When the shifter gets worn, the bottom can be forced out of position. If you unbolt the shifter and lift it up you will see the cup that the bottom is supposed to sit in. Just reallign it and bolt it back down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddmodman Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Okay, thx for all the info guys. I'll try realigning that cup deal. Well the reason I was asking about swapping to an ax5 is because they kid I bought it from had an extra tranny in the back, which I believed to be the ax5. But if it won't bolt up anyway... nvm. Let me know if you get that manual up JeepNut. Is the AX-15 physically larger/beefier looking than the AX5? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 The AX-15 and AX-15 look very similar. Some key identifiers are that the AX-5 has a steel midplate, while the AX-15's is aluminum. Also, the AX-5 has a raised shift tower, while the AX-15's in nearly flush with the rest of the case. As for your current problem, the Pukey may be stuck in a single gear, explaining why you get movement on the output, but it won't shift into any gears. That cup may have worn down enough where it popped out of place while the trans was in gear. You'll have to pull the shifter and see if all the shift rails are lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I cannot speak to details about the failure. But I can confirm (as an owner thereof) that the Peugot transmission is crapola. It will take only light duty street use. If you plan on wheeling your MJ it will fail. If you drive it like you stole it, it will fail. If you haul a lot with it, it will fail. None of the highlighted statements above are correct. My '88 Cherokee has the dreaded BA10/5 Peugeot transmission. It now has 287,000 miles on it and it's running fine. It has been wheeled all over New England and at Paragon in Pennsylvania, wearing 30" and 31" tires through stock gears (not an ideal combo for wheeling, I know, but harder on the tranny). I have carried loads heavy enough to be riding on the bump stops -- from Connecticut to New Mexico. The XJ has a class III hitch on it and has towed some heavy loads. The tranny may not stand up to driving it like you stole it, but most manual trannies won't. That's not use, that's abuse. Slamming shifts wears or breaks synchronizers. I have an MJ with an AX-15 and I have a 2000 XJ with an NVG 3550. Just like the Peugeot, they HATE shifting from first to second, and if you repeatedly bang the 1-2 shift the tranny will be toast in a matter of days. That's not a condemnation of the tranny 0-- that's a fact. In fact, the same was also true of my first AMC Javelin. When the Javelin first came out in late 1967 (as a 1968 model), the 4-speed behind the V8s was a wide-ratio Borg-Warner T10, The ratio split sucked, and shifting fast from first to second detroyed the synchro. By early 1968 they had switched to a close-ratio gear set, and that problem pretty much went away. I used the wide ratio set for road racing, and the close ratio set for drag racing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richasco Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 None of the highlighted statements above are correct. Truth. The only issues I ever had were due to the trans being worn out. The shifter issues started around 219,000 miles during some hard winter wheeling. I shifted hard into third and the shifter dislodged from the shift cup. I burnt the clutch a little but still made it home. I replaced the shifter and kept driving it for another 20,000 miles. It wasn't replaced until the D35 blewout it's spider gears and I decided to replace the entire drivetrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry 43 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 This is probably far fetched and not relevant...but if someone has been screwing around with the transmission there is a way to lock it. Used especially in shipping new trannies. Put your finger in the filler hole and if there is a lever just toward the rear of the hole push it back toward the rear and it will unlock the trans. Like I said it is probably not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 None of the highlighted statements above are correct. My '88 Cherokee has the dreaded BA10/5 Peugeot transmission. It now has 287,000 miles on it and it's running fine. It has been wheeled all over New England and at Paragon in Pennsylvania, wearing 30" and 31" tires through stock gears (not an ideal combo for wheeling, I know, but harder on the tranny). I have carried loads heavy enough to be riding on the bump stops -- from Connecticut to New Mexico. The XJ has a class III hitch on it and has towed some heavy loads. The tranny may not stand up to driving it like you stole it, but most manual trannies won't. That's not use, that's abuse. Slamming shifts wears or breaks synchronizers. I have an MJ with an AX-15 and I have a 2000 XJ with an NVG 3550. Just like the Peugeot, they HATE shifting from first to second, and if you repeatedly bang the 1-2 shift the tranny will be toast in a matter of days. That's not a condemnation of the tranny 0-- that's a fact. In fact, the same was also true of my first AMC Javelin. When the Javelin first came out in late 1967 (as a 1968 model), the 4-speed behind the V8s was a wide-ratio Borg-Warner T10, The ratio split sucked, and shifting fast from first to second detroyed the synchro. By early 1968 they had switched to a close-ratio gear set, and that problem pretty much went away. I used the wide ratio set for road racing, and the close ratio set for drag racing. Must agree. I have 3 XJ and 4 MJ with the dreaded BA10 and over 200k. Still driving as good as the day they left the factory. Just because something isn't as good as something else doesn't mean it's junk. Anything will break if abused.Yes the AX 15 is better but that doesn't automatically make the BA10 junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheJeepNut Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 And there you have it. As so often is the case, Your Mileage May Vary... My opinions stand and are backed up by literally thousands of posts on dozens of sites condemning the Peugot transmission. And my personal experiences with it were indeed not hallucinated. However, others seem to find that theirs works just fine. It's common when you ask if A is better than B. If I lived in Alaska, I'd look for better odds for reliability and switch to the AX15. It's too easy to do, to not do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Would the bell housing of a BA10 fit an AX15? or will I have to get the BH for the AX15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I cannot speak to details about the failure. But I can confirm (as an owner thereof) that the Peugot transmission is crapola. It will take only light duty street use. If you plan on wheeling your MJ it will fail. If you drive it like you stole it, it will fail. If you haul a lot with it, it will fail. This is a commonly perpetuated myth, but it is untrue. My '88 XJ has the Peugeot tranny. I have 287,000 miles on it, and the tranny is fine. It has been wheeled all over new England, at paragon in Pennsylvania, and in Arizona & New Mexico. However, I will agree that if you drive it "like you stole it," it will break. So will the AX-15, and so will the NVG3500. These are truck transmissions, intended to be shifted by people who know how to drive a standard transmission. If they are treated like drag race transmissions and slam shifted, the synchronizers will NOT survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Would the bell housing of a BA10 fit an AX15? or will I have to get the BH for the AX15? the bellhousings are not interchangeable. :thumbsup: try to get a bellhousing from a 95+ AX-15 to get the external slave. don't forget that you'll need all the guts to that bellhousing, not just the housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 the bellhousings are not interchangeable. :thumbsup: try to get a bellhousing from a 95+ AX-15 to get the external slave. don't forget that you'll need all the guts to that bellhousing, not just the housing. Unfortunately, it is on a 90 xj. So the slave is internal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 either way, be sure to get all the guts. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Get the crossmember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 that too. :doh: basically get anything that touches the trans (including the t-case if possible). :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 either way, be sure to get all the guts. :thumbsup: What is included with the "guts"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knever3 Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ok crazy question that I might have missed. 2wd or 4wd? I have a 2wd Ba-10/5 in my garage from my Comanche with only 41,000 miles on it. $150 it's yours, I don't know where you live since it's not in your profile pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Ok crazy question that I might have missed. 2wd or 4wd? I have a 2wd Ba-10/5 in my garage from my Comanche with only 41,000 miles on it. $150 it's yours, I don't know where you live since it's not in your profile pic. 4x4. I live in Maryland - The Peoples Republic of... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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