Building a case. Idiots.

[Automan2164]

Well, after fighting with multiple guys at Midas, and getting nowhere, I have come to consult the all-knowing wisdom of the Comanche Club.

 

My mom takes her '98 Cavalier to Midas for all oil changes and maintenance, and has done so since the car was brand spanking new. She is the original owner, and has never serviced it anywhere else. She's got about 100K on the ticker now.

 

She recently told me that Midas would no longer do the oil changes on her car until she replaces the oil pan because the threads are stripped out on it. She was about to write a letter to corporate because she felt that it wasn't her responsibility to replace an oil pan she's never touched. I concur, so I told her that I would come down with her to Midas, and fight for her case. (She's a 5 foot tall off the boat german woman... People tend to walk on her) I found the manager, and told him how I believed that it was their responsibility, as they have serviced it since new, and they could be the only ones who may have damaged it. He calls it a "Wear item". I asked where the service interval for the oil pan was in the owners manual... He had no good answer. I told him I have had vehicles that have had in excess of 290K, on the original oil pan, and he had no answer to that. Basically, after a half hour of pleading my case, he told me he would take $50 off of the $219 labor charge. I told him that I wasn't getting the answers I wanted to hear, and walked out.

 

I called corporate today, and they had me talk to the franchise owner, who basically took the same stand. I explained why I thought it was his problem, and told him I just wanted him to own up and make it right. She's been a loyal customer for 25 years, and now this. She would be happy to have them replace it, and keep going there. But if they don't own up, she's going to leave, and tell all of her friends/anyone who will listen. I even told them that I would buy the pan, if they would put it on for free. I think that's a more than reasonable offer on our part. He extended the same $50 off offer, and told me that they would put the pan on for $150 if I buy the pan.

 

I am at a loss here. I have called the Chevy dealer, who told me that its not a "wear item" which I knew, and that the plug is softer than the pan, so theoretically, the plug should have been stripped first. No one in my immediate circle of mechanic friends says that she should pay, and I am lost as what the next step is.

 

My mom was thinking about going to the BBB, and dinging their rating, or even small claims court. I suggested getting a vinyl decal for the back window that says "McHenry Midas cost me money, ask me how" and come to Midas and show them the free advertisement.

 

Some entertaining snippets from my conversation with the manager:

 

"Here's the owners manual, where is the 'oil pan replacement' schedule?"

-"Its not in there."

"Why is that?"

-"..."

 

"I have never replaced an oil pan because the threads 'wore out'."

-"We change them all the time here."

"That's because you guys are changing the oil."

 

"So my Jeep out there should be on its second oil pan with 130K on it right?"

-"..."

"Because its not."

 

"Where in your disclaimer does it say she's responsible for your work?"

-"It doesn't."

"Exactly."

 

Any ideas guys?

Rob L. :dunno:

[shelbyluvv]

Call your local news station and get them involved. They will change their story quick, fast, and in a hurry as soon as the cameras come on.

 

I had to do it over my 07 Ram the dealership wrecked. I got a NEW bed side put on my truck. It did not have bondo in it when I bought it and it sure as hell wasn't going to have it after they wrecked it trouble shooting a transmission.

[dfreeman616]

over sized oil drain plug? they're readily available from various suppliers, doorman i believe is one brand. that doesn't really answer the problem of midas being idiots though. there is no reason those threads so be stripped except over tightening or cross threading. not sure there's much you can do though, aside from the bad publicity ideas you two have already mentioned.

[1987Comanche]

If all else fails purchase a Fram Sure Drain (ebay, etc) and put in place of the drain plug. As long as you can cram it in the thing will never have to be unscrewed again.

I'm not a big fan of Fram but that works pretty well. I've had it on 2 trucks with boogered up oil pan threads.

[Automan2164]

over sized oil drain plug? they're readily available from various suppliers, doorman i believe is one brand. that doesn't really answer the problem of midas being idiots though. there is no reason those threads so be stripped except over tightening or cross threading. not sure there's much you can do though, aside from the bad publicity ideas you two have already mentioned.

 

Just got off the phone with Ma, apparently Midas put in an oversized plug somewhere around 75K when this problem started... And one of the last few times, they "Buffed" the area around the drain plug with a sander or something, and found a crack in the pan around the plug. Now I KNOW that something was overtightened if there was so much stress by the oil plug it cracked the pan.

 

Rob L.

[jpdocdave]

ugh, luckily Rob I know you know better than some of the suggestions given, but c'mon, Midas for 25 years???? Thats the problem.

 

Fact is, yes they over torqued it and wore it out slowly over 100k, and sadly, you will not get anywhere with them on it, guaranteed. Drain plugs are wearable items, the pan should not where out. They should've replaced the drain plug at the first signs of wear, but the lube tech was too lazy to walk up front and say "she needs a drain plug" instead, "ah screw it, someone else can deal with it next time"........again........Midas.

 

edit: I was typing when you posted that, c'mon. If you install an oversized drain plug, you are damaging the pan, bottom line.

[Automan2164]

ugh, luckily Rob I know you know better than some of the suggestions given, but c'mon, Midas for 25 years???? Thats the problem.

 

Fact is, yes they over torqued it and wore it out slowly over 100k, and sadly, you will not get anywhere with them on it, guaranteed. Drain plugs are wearable items, the pan should not where out. They should've replaced the drain plug at the first signs of wear, but the lube tech was too lazy to walk up front and say "she needs a drain plug" instead, "ah screw it, someone else can deal with it next time"........again........Midas.

 

edit: I was typing when you posted that, c'mon. If you install an oversized drain plug, you are damaging the pan, bottom line.

 

In all honesty, they have done her good over the years. Back when she had her '86 Chevy Nova, she took it there religiously, and it lasted a good long time. She had no reason to not take it there.

 

As far as not getting results... She's a stubborn old german woman, and I am a descendant of a stubborn old german woman.

 

Come hell or high water, we'll get results, or make them look like bloomin' idiots. :yes:

Rob L.

[jimoshel]

Almost every TV station has a spot where they go to bat for the consumer with a complaint against a business. Go there first. Then small claims court. The biggest problem with SCC is usually there is a filing fee, $75 here, and sometimes the damage isn't worth it, other than the satisfaction of dragging them to court. However most businesses don't want the hassle and will settle up. Personally the damage could be $5 but if I'm right I'll spend $500 to get satisfaction.

[HOrnbrod]

If your Mom bought the car new, why didn't she have the oil changes and lubes done by the original dealer? In some cases, having it done by a 3rd party voids the warranty. And I don't know about IL, but here the dealer oil change and lube is considerably cheaper than no skill clowns like QuickLube, 30sec whatever, and the Midas idiots. The dealer charges $29 total for lube, oil and filter, and fixes stuff they find for free here. (Small town) :D

 

Having the car serviced by the original dealer also pays off after the warranty is over. They replaced two OEM tires for free (after the warranty expired) after trying to fix a slight shimmy the wife's Malibu SS had since new. Along the way the replaced the tie rod ends, rotated the tires, countless balancing jobs, all free. But I realize - not all dealerships are created equal.

[Automan2164]

If your Mom bought the car new, why didn't she have the oil changes and lubes done by the original dealer? In some cases, having it done by a 3rd party voids the warranty. And I don't know about IL, but here the dealer oil change and lube is considerably cheaper than no skill clowns like QuickLube, 30sec whatever, and the Midas idiots. The dealer charges $29 total for lube, oil and filter, and fixes stuff they find for free here. (Small town) :D

 

Having the car serviced by the original dealer also pays off after the warranty is over. They replaced two OEM tires for free (after the warranty expired) after trying to fix a slight shimmy the wife's Malibu SS had since new. Along the way the replaced the tie rod ends, rotated the tires, countless balancing jobs, all free. But I realize - not all dealerships are created equal.

 

The dealership she bought it from was not created equal... Not only did they sell her the car for sticker price because they told her there was no room in the sticker... (The neighbor heard this and raised hell for her at the time) But they are the worst Chevrolet dealer in the area. It took them 2 months of trial and error with the girlfriends blazer before she finally got fed up and took it to an independent, whom replaced the fuel pump, and had it back in 2 days. (Before she was with me) Ma just took it to Midas because they had never done her wrong before... And the nearest bow-tie dealer beyond that was a little too far for her. She was pulling down 2 jobs as a single parent raising myself, and barely had time to relax between shifts.

 

Wish I would have been keen to the Ol Jeeps back in '97. :D

Rob L. :dunno:

[kastein]

already been said... small claims court, BBB, news stations.

 

Oil pan is NOT a wear item and never has been, their idiots are cranking that plug in as tight as it'll go instead of torquing it or (non idiots only) setting it properly with a hand wrench. I have 3 different Jeeps and an M54A2 (with two oil drain plugs, dual sump oil pan...) with no boogered up threads, and a total of over 600 thousand miles on them.

 

Make em look stupid/greedy/disreputable in front of the public and they will change their tune FAST.

[STERLING STINGER]

the bbb is very powerful. theyll get right on top of it. just call them and they will lead you on what to do. and they are very fast.

good luck!

[MjPioneer]

the bbb is very powerful. theyll get right on top of it. just call them and they will lead you on what to do. and they are very fast.

good luck!

 

Agreed. I filed a complaint with them when I got my 1990 Xj. The stealership sold me the Cherokee no problem and I drove her home same day with temp tags, they told me they would mail me the title. A week went by with nothing from them, then 2 weeks, then 3 weeks. When I called them they told me they did not mail titles, and they did not have one on record for my Cherokee. After I filed with the BBB, I received my title within the week.

[whowey]

First.... you let that dear sainted woman go to a Midas.... I'm slapping you the next time I see you. She put up with years of your crap and help put you through tech school to be a MECHANIC...

 

Second an 86 Chevy Nova isn't..... It's a rebadged Toyota. One of the ones back when Toyota actually made cars that lasted.

 

I don't have another good idea of what to do about Midas' crap-tastic service. The Daily Herald Northwest bureau would most likely be all over a story like that. I think they have a consumer reporter.

 

But in closing... CHANGE YOUR MOM'S OIL FOR HER. Ya bastard...

[jpdocdave]

If your Mom bought the car new, why didn't she have the oil changes and lubes done by the original dealer? In some cases, having it done by a 3rd party voids the warranty.

 

Side bar: Its been federal law for years, that you cannot be required to go to your dealer for regular maintenance. They cannot void your warranty if they don't do the maintenance. They tried, but failed, your new car warranty cannot be voided wherever the maintenance is done, including by you in your driveway. But......keep records.

 

And I have dealt with hundreds of dealers in my day to day at work, I haven't found one worth a crap. And now most are using quick lube bs in their dealership. A tech is not changing the oil, a lube tech idiot just the same as jippy lube, or midas, is changing the oil in dealerships now as well.

 

Find a reputable independent shop is my advice, look around in the shop, see what it looks like, and who's back there.

[HOrnbrod]

Like I said before, this is a small town GM dealership. I know all the techs, the service manager, sales staff, and the owner's a friend. It's been here since the 20's and I honestly don't know how they are still holding on, but they are. No appointments necessary; just drop in and they go to work on it. :D A GM certified tech does the oil changes and lubes. He's been working there for over twenty years. They use only Purolator filters. He's the same guy that does alignments, brakes, tuneups, and most all suspension work.

 

Just because you haven't found any dealerships worth a crap does not mean there aren't any Dave.

 

EDIT: However, most of the other dealerships I've been to are crap, as well as most of the independents. Most of the good old-timers are gone now, and everyone's trying to turn a fast buck it seems at the expense of the customer, not trying to build customer loyalty via good dependable service. I don't trust any of the bastids frankly and do everything I can myself. :D

[kastein]

If your Mom bought the car new, why didn't she have the oil changes and lubes done by the original dealer? In some cases, having it done by a 3rd party voids the warranty.

 

Side bar: Its been federal law for years, that you cannot be required to go to your dealer for regular maintenance. They cannot void your warranty if they don't do the maintenance. They tried, but failed, your new car warranty cannot be voided wherever the maintenance is done, including by you in your driveway. But......keep records.

 

And I have dealt with hundreds of dealers in my day to day at work, I haven't found one worth a crap. And now most are using quick lube bs in their dealership. A tech is not changing the oil, a lube tech idiot just the same as jippy lube, or midas, is changing the oil in dealerships now as well.

 

Find a reputable independent shop is my advice, look around in the shop, see what it looks like, and who's back there.

Interesting, never seen that around here but then again I haven't been in a dealership except to order parts and BS with the parts counter guy in years.

[mvusse]

EDIT: However, most of the other dealerships I've been to are crap, as well as most of the independents. Most of the good old-timers are gone now, and everyone's trying to turn a fast buck it seems at the expense of the customer, not trying to build customer loyalty via good dependable service. I don't trust any of the bastids frankly and do everything I can myself. :D

 

There still good ones around, but they are few and far between. When my parents were stranded with a dead alternator over 1000 miles from home on vacation a few weeks back they called CAA for a tow truck. Ended up having it towed to the garage the truck was based out off in a tiny little town in New Brunswick somewhere, waited an hour for an alternator to arrive from a nearby town large enough to have one in stock at a parts store, and were on their way less than 4 hours after the call to CAA and having spent only $360 CDN to have a bad alternator replaced on a 3/4 ton weekender van. That included labor AND parts.

 

PS Sorry for the hijack.

[MJRemi]

I work in the Courts in San Diego and have sat through several " Owner v. Service Shop " small claims cases. If you go that route, have the service records to show the work/paper trail regarding the oil pan and contact the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) in your area before filing the lawsuit. BAR will do a thorough investigation of your complaint and will testify in court as a witness at no cost to you. If BAR is on your side, you will have a MUCH greater chance of success. Good Luck!!