House broken into...

[Dave Stark]

Okay,

 

A couple days ago my wife calls me frantically saying that when she got home from the store every single light was on in the house. She's a bit of a penny pincher, so not something she would do (plus, who leaves every light on in the house during the day?). I told her to call 911 & i came home from work (beating the cops). I searched the house & couldn't find anything missing or in any worse order than it already was, no forced entry either. We just moved back from Vegas, so i'm thinking there maybe a weirdo with a key.

 

Now i'm changing all the locks & going to get the wife a gun she can use.

 

I want to get her a Walther P22 to start & maybe a Beretta 9MM later on with a concealed carry permit.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Also, this is what i'm getting myself...

 

http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/New/50771.jpg

[jimoshel]

Handguns are OK, especially for conceal carry and convenience. For home protection I personally prefer a shot gun. I've seen and heard stories where some one high, popped out, or just stupid would challenge a hand gun. Whereas they see a shot gun they sh*t their pants and freeze. Also a SG doesn't require marksmanship. just point and pull,,er,,squeeze.Also pellets won't penetrate a half dozen walls, not a consideration in the country. Discussing weapons, guns, is just like politics an women. Everybody has their own opinions and reasoning. So let's get the debate rolling and please keep it polite. Jim. Life member NRA, owner of over 3 dozen guns, avid sportsman and shooter of trespassers. Incidently, my favorite weapons are the colt 1911 .45 and the Garand M1 .30

:clapping:

[mnkyboy]

Ive got a mossburg pump its been a very reliable and it was inexpensive. :thumbsup:

 

i wouldnt bother with a P22,it may not stop someone.

 

for your wife i would get at least a .380 auto but a 9mm would be better. my mom carries a Walther P99 and loves it.

 

revolvers are also good for security,super reliable and easy to use.

[Automan2164]

Weird, someone got in, but didn't take anything...

 

Ever listened to Dane Cook?

 

He has a skit about breaking into a house, and taking nothing... Ends up bothering the family so much they argue for years about why the house got broken into...

 

Could it have been someone you gave a spare key? What did the cops say?

Rob L.

[DirtyComanche]

Did you just buy the house and not change the locks?

 

 

Personally, I don't believe in heavily armed home defense. If I were to live in an area where I specifically feared that PEOPLE are going to try to make an attempt against my life for the sake of my possessions, I would be moving shortly. But, I guess it's different here...

 

If you want my opinion on small arms, well, maybe later.

[glundblad]

Did you just buy the house and not change the locks?

 

 

Personally, I don't believe in heavily armed home defense. If I were to live in an area where I specifically feared that PEOPLE are going to try to make an attempt against my life for the sake of my possessions, I would be moving shortly. But, I guess it's different here...

 

If you want my opinion on small arms, well, maybe later.

 

Yes I agree. I live in the country where everyone knows everyone's name. I feel very safe. The only time I don't is when the folks from outside our area come in and rob us. It only happened to me twice. Changing locks won't help. Have you kicked in a door before? It doenst take much and if they made the decision to break in, I doubt a locked door will keep them out. An alarm system would help in that situation because if they did break the door in, they need to deal with the noise. There is more you should be aware of on that too.

 

I wouldnt go heavily armed either. Pistols are a waste, especially with the gun laws. If you really needed to use it, you (or her) probably couldnt shoot straight anyway. A 12 gauge pump with double ought or better yet tripple ought shot will slow them down better than any pistol. It wouldnt even need to be loaded. Anyone can load them fast. The sound alone of bringing one of those babies into the chamber will make anyone decide it is best to leave.

[CWLONGSHOT]

Personal protection with a firearm is a big step. With out a devotion and complete understanding and willingness to completely do this. You may be the one introducing the major factor. Should someone take that handgun from her by her unwillingness to actually use it. Threatening/brandishing with a firearm is a sure way to have it taken away from you have even have it used against you. This to me sounds like your decision for her. This is dangerous and is the variable that makes all the difference.

 

I would recomend you have a really good sit down and even look for someone in your area who can better advise you. Maybe a personal protection clinic where you shoot, shoot, shoot. One excellent one I always recomend is done all around the country by Massad Ayoob. EVERYONE will leave this with a crystal clear understanding on what it entails.

 

For now a better option may be a less-lethal option. Like KIMBERS excellent pepper-blaster. http://www.kimberamerica.com/shop/section.php?xSec=2

 

Now, I am making assumptions here, but experience in these matters proves out my opinions. Wives/girlfriends tend not to have the "stomach" for 100% comitment to these things. Along the same lines the macho kill-em all let god sort em' out mentality that sound cool... in today's realty, well...it isn't.

 

 

Good luck,

CW

[jpdocdave]

i had my first house broken into, and they took stuff. its a crappy feeling, and you feel violated. i agree with cw, it has to be her decision to use it.

 

i personally own a .357 revolver s&w model 19, and my next home defense gun will be similar to what you posted, but with a pistol grip and short barrell. i got some advise years ago from an old cop, he told me to have the revolver, because the shells stay in the gun, and he said empty it if you have to use it.

[freakjeep93]

so they broke in and styole nothing and broke nothing .... :hmm: thats odd where I'm from theyll steal anything and everything then burn your house...

[aemsee]

CW has some excellent advice there. I started the process of having my wife get her permit. Then realized that she just isn't the "gun" type. While she is a very good shot, I never got the feeling that she could pull the trigger on someone when she needed to, and she wouldn't put in the practice time. Instead, we have a few well place baseball bats around the house. I know she would use one of those:).

I also agree about learning from Massad Ayoob. Even just read some of his very realistic writings.

 

As for the shotgun thing. A long barrel weapon can be VERY difficult to use in the confined spaces of indoors. And you do not mention the stature of your wife. A petite woman with a long barrel pump 12 gauge may be a bad combo.

[DJM/78]

:agree: With CW . As an Expert marksman , I would set a regiment . Training , training , training !!

Handgun safety courses are a must !! Rifles are better but your never going to have it when you need it . Having weapons lying

around isn't any better . The criminal will find it , and use it on you . My advise is to look at the .357 -.40 cal , There are plenty

of options . My wife couldn't charge my .40's slide , so we looked at the new glock .357 , The action is like butter .

Way better than anything I carry . Don't ever use a .22-.380 auto unless you have to . Just look at 50 cent . Sill breathing after

15 rounds hit him in vital areas . Stupid gangsters , the tech 9 is for people who can't hit there target . Pussies"!!

If the M.F'er is still in the house , swiss cheese that pansy . I use Ballistic hollow points , for that extra get-r-done .

Here on the mountain , we don't play . Now its make my day for business's as well . So bring it PACO !!

Hope your family has enough stolen $#!& laying around the house , to buy you a tombstone .

 

Dave M.

 

U.S ARMY AIRBORNE INF.

One shot , one kill , Oh what a thrill .

[Dave Stark]

Thanks guys for all your great opinions, i wanted some different viewpoints & you guys supplied them with with a calm clear-headed approach. It's very much appreciated. :thumbsup:

 

I'll give a little more background here & hopefully a little better picture of what the situation is. First off i grew up in the country & my father was a gun trader. I spent a lot of time in the woods & always carried my Mossberg 500 12 gauge & usually my 1911 colt. That was not due to a worry about what kind of people were lurking about, more due to the black bears, coyotes, & wild dogs that didn't like me in their territory. I am a gun person & have no inhibitions about using them to protect my family; however due to a falling out with my family when i went to college i lost access to my guns & haven't had the money to replace them until now. My wife is not a gun person, & has not grown up around them, the last time (only time) she shot was with me when we were teenagers. She was the one who approached me for a weapon, after seeing some of the opinions on here i have my doubts about her willingness to use it. What i originally had in mind was the P22 to get her started, with lots of gun range practice, that gun would NOT be used for protection, only to familiarize her to pistols. After that i was thinking a 9mm with a concealed permit, but i suppose i might be getting ahead of myself, because she really is a tender-hearted petite person (the shot gun pictured above is for me only). The only thing that might lead me to believe she would use a weapon is to protect the kids...

 

Moving is not an option just yet, i've owned this house for around five years & never had a problem, but when my company moved me to Vegas i rented the house (about a year), i can't be certain a key wasn't given away. Also, i'm a bit specialized in my work & wherever i move would be at least very near to a large city...

 

Thanks again for the responses. :waving:

[RLCollins]

A great vacation spot for the entire family to go to for firearms training is FRONTSIGHT in Nevada. This is very much a family afair vacation spot, with many families attending, so check it out. I think a shotgun is great home defense tool, just make sure that "IF" you are going to pull it out, make sure you intend to use it, other wise the THUGS may take it away from you, and use it against you. You don't have to be a marksman to use it. I like my COLT 44 mag, just the sight of it scares the hell out of them. I only had to pull it out once on a couple of thugs, once I pulled the hammer back and they heard it click, they knew I meant business and they took off for the hills. :yes:

[Carl'sMJ]

Also a SG doesn't require marksmanship.

 

I definitely disagree. Contrary to popular belief, shotgun work does require marksmanship training. I don't want to get into a big discussion about different loads, the spread of projectiles, putting effect on target, and such... but it is possible to miss with a shotgun.

[mopwrd340]

try mans best friend works very well my small lab/sheppard mix had never bit nobody for the 7 years we had her well one day one of my sons friends tried to come through the sliding door to his room when nobody was home the dog new him and tore him a new @$$ plus its like 24 hr protection

[Dave Stark]

try mans best friend works very well my small lab/sheppard mix had never bit nobody for the 7 years we had her well one day one of my sons friends tried to come through the sliding door to his room when nobody was home the dog new him and tore him a new @$$ plus its like 24 hr protection

 

 

I've always been a dog person too, but i only have .2 acre, not much room for Fido to run & play & since i generally work 12hr days six days a week obedience training becomes an issue too. This is really a tough spot for us without an easy fix... :(

[Automan2164]

I would now say, that after all the discussion, maybe a home alarm with somesort of ridiculous siren or audible alarm is in order... It seems that maybe they were just looking around, but maybe next time, if they try to get in, and are met with a bastard of an alarm, they might just run for the hills. If they were any sort of criminal, they would have taken stuff. I just think someone was snooping, and the last thing they would want is attention for snooping.

 

Rob L.

[Dave Stark]

:agree:

 

At least as a temporary fix...

[Eagle]

Now i'm changing all the locks & going to get the wife a gun she can use.

 

I want to get her a Walther P22 to start & maybe a Beretta 9MM later on with a concealed carry permit.

 

Any suggestions?

Yep - skip the .22 and get her a 9mm. A .22 beats a sharp stick, but not by much. If she had to use it against a large-ish guy who is pumped up on drugs, multiple hits from a .22 is likely to just make him angry.

 

Get a 9mm in a pistol that's comfortable for her to hold and heavy enough that the (negligible) recoil of a 9mm doesn't bother her, and encourage her to learn to shoot it. Load it up with a decent hollow-point, personal defense ammo and stick with that.

 

Also, for both of you -- if you come home to signs that the house has been entered, DO NOT go into the house. Stay in the car with the doors locked, on the street, call 9-1-1, and wait for the police. Even if you are armed, you are not trained to clear a house, you have no idea of who might be inside, how many of them there might be, and whether or not they might be armed. If they are armed, I think you can safely bet the farm they will NOT be carrying a .22.

[jpdocdave]

i'll try to make a long story short about why i chose to purchase a fire arm. reading about the baseball bats is what reminded me of it.

 

everyone has heard some noises in the night, animals in the garbage or whatever, neighbors or whatever. i've been woken up to a noise many times, getting up and saying "what was that" and lookin out the windows, we all have countless times.

 

well a few years ago, bedroom window was open in the summer time, and i was rapidly awoken from slumber to a loud crash, different than i've heard before, right out my window. this wasn't like any other time, and i'll never be able to portray the feeling over a computer screen. But this was it, no question 110% its time, kill or be killed, never fealt that before or since. i kept a golf club by the bed, i jumped up, did not look out any windows, no time for that i have to beat who ever this is to getting in. i threw the dog out the back door and i ran out the front, long story short it was a raccoon right outside my window knocking something over.

 

but the feeling i had running out of the house with a 9 iron and a 20 lb dog to protect my family sucked.

 

after my first house was robbed 8yrs ago or so, we got an alarm put in, they're better than nothing. but i remember my wife or mom trying to get in once, and didn't remember the code or it malfunctioned and went off, it went nuts for a bout 4 mins, and stopped, no one in the neighborhood cared, and then the alarm company calls and if they get no answer they send police which is good, but 20 mins later it was cleared up and no cops came. and this was an adt alarm.

[Dave Stark]

The .22 was only to familiarize her with weapons, she has basically no experience whatsoever. I wouldn't trust a .22 for protection any day.

 

Unfortunately, she did not set the alarm this time & there were no forced entry signs. The only thing that keyed her off was the fact that every single light in the house was on. Also, i had Brinks for a short time & was not impressed with their service, as i personally had set off the alarm as well as my wife (accidentally) not only was there no call, there was no cops. I called them to find out WTF & they said there was no alarm event & no problem with my system. I dropped them quick (waste of money) we still have the alarm, it's just not connected to the mother ship.

[jpdocdave]

^ come to think of it mine was brinks to, and thats what we eventually did, stopped paying for the service, but the alarm still made noise.

 

and if an intruder disabled it within the allotted time there would be no alarm on their side.

[DJM/78]

Also look into beefing up your doors and windows . There are allot of products that can keep them out . Dead bolts,

Lock bars and thicker materials , ie; solid door more or better hinges ext. They start getting expensive but its worth

the piece of mind and family safety . With windows there are products that work like window tint made by, Lexan

and 3M that will be tough to get through . Cheep and effective !!

I agree there should be allot of thought before buying a firearm . Might even look at taser guns used by police

officers . I've seen many a big dude dance the funky chicken , one blasted with one of those things.

Allot of police around here have started using them instead !!

[jpnjim]

but the feeling i had running out of the house with a 9 iron and a 20 lb dog to protect my family sucked.

 

I supplement this with:

 

a) a bigger dog,

she's 70 lbs and seems to scare strangers pretty good

 

B) I'm pretty good at scaring strangers too. :)

A few 3am trips outside in my BVD's to discuss the effect beeping cars have on people that have to work for a living has done a good job of alerting my neighbors to exactly which house on this street the crazy person lives. :D

 

and c) my crappy house, with crappy Jeeps parked outside seems to have deterred any fortune seekers so far.

They probably feel bad for me, and would be more likely to drop off some ill gotten goods out of sheer pity.

[Eagle]

My wife is not a gun person, & has not grown up around them, the last time (only time) she shot was with me when we were teenagers. She was the one who approached me for a weapon, after seeing some of the opinions on here i have my doubts about her willingness to use it. What i originally had in mind was the P22 to get her started, with lots of gun range practice, that gun would NOT be used for protection, only to familiarize her to pistols. After that i was thinking a 9mm with a concealed permit, but i suppose i might be getting ahead of myself, because she really is a tender-hearted petite person (the shot gun pictured above is for me only). The only thing that might lead me to believe she would use a weapon is to protect the kids.

Don't let the "petite" part ruin your day. My good friend's wife carries a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver in her purse, and she knows how to use it. He told an amusing story of when she went to the range with him one day and they were on separate lanes. Some hot-shot saw this attractive chick with a .357 and immediately went up to her and started offering her advice. When he got to the part about sight picture and how to pull the trigger, she said "Like this?" as she blasted out six shots, all in the nine ring. Mr. hot-shot slunk off with his tail between his legs.

 

The key element, which you must discuss with your wife, is her willingness to use a gun against an intruder. One of Ayoob's "Lethal Force Institute" classes would be ideal, or any of a number of other training venues. (Sorry, I cannot endorse Front Sight. IMHO it's a Ponzi scheme with guns as the magnet.) But, with or without a class, she has to decide whether or not she would be willing to actually shoot -- because if the situation arises, she won't have time to think about it then. If she really wants to learn to shoot, then by all means starting with a .22 is a good start. I've seen a lot of women turned off unnecessarily because their macho significant other insisted they start off with something like a .357 Magnum and they got scared. Shooting is a fun hobby and it's something that any family can participate in -- together. But there's a big difference between making holes in paper and actually shooting at an assailant in real life.

 

I don't know what your religion is, but if your wife has ethical/moral reservations about shooting an assailant, I would encourage her to fire up the computer and Google "Catholic catechism self defense." I suspect she may be surprised what the Catechism says on the subject. But the mindset has to be there in advance.

 

I definitely disagree. Contrary to popular belief, shotgun work does require marksmanship training. I don't want to get into a big discussion about different loads, the spread of projectiles, putting effect on target, and such... but it is possible to miss with a shotgun.

Very, very true. It takes more distance than you're going to find inside the average house for a bunch of shot to spread out enough to call it a "pattern." A shotgun at close range is certainly a powerful and formidable weapon -- but it's not a magic wand and it's not a ray gun. It requires aiming (or at least reasonably accurate pointing) to hit anything.

 

Unfortunately, she did not set the alarm this time & there were no forced entry signs. The only thing that keyed her off was the fact that every single light in the house was on.

Ya know, a couple of years ago a family in the town next to where my brother lives (and not far from the apartment he once rented) was wiped out by a couple of punks who walked in through the front door at 3:00 a.m. The house had an alarm system, but the family figured it was a "safe" neighborhood so they didn't use it -- or lock the doors. They beat the husband senseless and threw him down the basement stairs (he subsequently escaped and lived). They took the mother and two teenage daughters hostage. When the banks opened in the morning one took the mother to the bank and made her withdraw a chunk of cash, while the other one held the daughters. Somewhere along the way they raped the mother and at least one of the daughters. Then they killed the mother, tied the girls to their beds, and burned the house down with them in it. Google "Petit cheshire home invasion."

 

I don't even go upstairs for a protracted period without setting the alarm. But I don't expect any miracles. When I accidentally trip it, the delay before the alarm company calls is usually between one and two minutes. If it were a real alarm, I don't know how much longer it would take them to realize it and call the police. I live in a rural suburb, so the average police response time is anywhere from 5 to 25 minutes, depending on time of day, other calls, and where the nearest unit happens to be. The neighborhood is accustomed to alarms going off, so nobody else is going to call if it trips. The ONLY thing an alarm that's not connected to a monitoring service is good for is letting you know that there is someone in your house. So when it goes off, you know. The issue then is whether or not you are prepared ... and willing ... to deal with it. Calling the police is not the answer unless you live on the same block as a police station.