Lenard Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 Another reason that I know that there is no god. I work with an animal rescue group and have specialized in rescuing and adopting cats and kittens. We have not worked with them much lately because we are busy with our little girl, but in the course of 5-6 years, we have put through and adopted 30-40 cats and kittens through our home, no more than 4-6 in the house at a time. And every time one of those sweet kittens gets sick with an incurable disease, and I have to put that kitten to sleep, it just reaffirms to me that there is no god. Why would an all knowing all loving god do such a thing to such a poor innocent cat. And that goes for every bad thing in life. There is just soo much of it, too much to be explained by "the devil made me do it". There are too many supposedly good god fearing people that do so many bad things, it can't all be explained like that. To me there is only one thing cruel enough to make any sense of why all this bad stuff happens....MOTHER NATURE. And the term "mother" is not used to make it out like a higher being. Only nature is cruel enough to allow all the bad stuff to happen, and I accept that, because it makes sense. There is a way of things in nature and killing and whatnot is an integral part of that, and we humans are no different. Its just sad that common sense really has no place in religion... or politics for that matter, but thats another subject I am not getting into. i will try to keep the biblical responses short, because if i make a lengthy reply i believe it will just get glazed or scanned over. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. when God created Adam and Eve, there was no death, suffering, pain, anger and so on. they were cast out of the garden of eden for disobeying the one thing God said not to do. hence the wages of sin and so on. God is a God of love but is also 1oo% just. He is a righteous and perfect judge, and in order to do so there must be death, and so on. the difference between Christains and the rest of the world is we are saved as a gift of God, because he loved the world so much he sent his son to take that punishment for us, and all we have to do to recieve his forgiveness is believe and accpet that. so part of that difference is when we or loved ones die, we have hope, and we mourn but we also celebrate. death is not the end. one more thing, i was trying to keep this short and failed. people think you die and its over. this is not the case, one will either spend eternity in heaven, or hell. people think you go to hell and maybe suffer a little then die again (i used to think this way) but the truth is you will spend eternity in one or the other...eternity. and its kind of cut and dry, either you believe and accpet God, or you don't. you live one way or the other, and you end up one way or the other, forever either way. i am also enjoying the fact this discussion is civil and intelligent, and i agree with marcel, this is a good group of people. :agree: i wanted to reply to that post from Das, but couldn't quite sum up how to say it, but you just did it right there. none of us deserve anything but death, god is holy, perfect, loving and just, but we are nothing in his sight, there is absolutely nothing that we can do on this earth to measure up to what he is, or to be accepted by him, only by his pure love and grace does he allow some of us to be saved. and none of us deserve it. when i hear someone say, "how could a loving god let this happen" i just laugh, (no offensive intended das) because i say, "why didnt it happen sooner, and why are there still this many ppl/ animals or whatever alive" God dosent have to save any of us, but because he loves us (and this blows my mind why would he ever loves us) he gives us the gift of eternal life with him. On another note, it makes me happy seeing that everybody can talk about this without flaming each other and getting pissy. Makes me proud knowing i can be apart of this kinda group. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakjeep93 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 This is Freakjeep's step mother. Like I tell Freakjeep...I'd rather believe in creation, the Bible, God, Jesus and find out in the end that I am wrong, then to not believe and to be in for a rude awakening. :o) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 well put leanoard, and you say you can't believe he loves us (paraphrased) but i can, we are his creation, and he loves us all, good or bad. i understand what you're saying though, i'm just responding literally. and freakjeeps step mom, that is a good and simple way to put it. thanks for chimin in. :waving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanchedude Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I agree.. this is a Jeep MJ forum. I do think its out of line when people put this kinda stuff on this forum. As to the original poster -- you asked a question. I respectfully suggest that you now chill out and allow people to answer rather than jumping in to argue with other people's views. There is no more certain way to NOT get your question answered. Dayem, this is an MJ forum; the Pub is the Pub, but not a free license to post this crap if it's not even remotely MJ related. There are many other better suited forums in which you can post forever your views and get arguments pro/con ad nauseum, bring it there. Kill this thing please mods. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 This is the off topic section. this section is for anything not MJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I agree.. this is a Jeep MJ forum. I do think its out of line when people put this kinda stuff on this forum. As to the original poster -- you asked a question. I respectfully suggest that you now chill out and allow people to answer rather than jumping in to argue with other people's views. There is no more certain way to NOT get your question answered. Dayem, this is an MJ forum; the Pub is the Pub, but not a free license to post this crap if it's not even remotely MJ related. There are many other better suited forums in which you can post forever your views and get arguments pro/con ad nauseum, bring it there. Kill this thing please mods. :cheers: :agree: :shake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 jeeze, i'm a little suprised by the ones saying kill the thread, you don't have to click on it. its been a healthy exchange of ideas, and opinions, with a couple jokes thrown in.....kinda the point of this section of comanche club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 We are having a healthy adult discussion here. I say we continue the discussion as long as it stays on topic (or gets back on topic). People who don't want to read this should just quit reading it. Eagle: yes, you are a moderator, but there are two other mods as well, Pete and Qui Gon. Pete seems to not have a problem reading this topic, so why not leave this one for him to worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Creation definitely. Mates, I cannot look up to the night sky and not believe in God. I could not, when on a patrol and trembling with fear, and pulling my feet up to my crotch out of the Humvee floor board for fear of mines, and not pray to a God. Even though I couldn’t save a 21 year old PVT named Kenny Rojas, 23 year old Joshua Kynoch and 9 others under my charge or in my area, I do not blame God and/or attribute it to casual consequence. I hate telling war stories, but I can’t explain how an explosion will tear through an armored vehicle killing (shredding to very small pieces) all but one or two Soldiers who come out unscathed. That my friends, is the grace of God. I’ve seen it. I cannot find any living person on this planet who would listen to me without disgust about all the dirty, rotten, and plain wrong things I’ve done except God. If you’ve never done anything “that bad” maybe you don’t have that problem. Maybe you do? I honestly cannot find that one person whom I can be completely 100% honest with. Thank God, I don’t have to “act” to God. I can’t find a hero who hasn’t let me down in some way except for Jesus. The more I know about people, the more they let me down. When I try to put myself in the situations he was in; I, nor any man I know living or in history, would be able to match his courage, candor, eloquence, strength or wisdom. If one reads the first four books of the New Testament, the same conclusion might be drawn. Or one could come to one of many cliché conclusions: “too good to be true”, “fairy/folk tale”, etc. But that’s where faith comes in. Is there really a heaven, forgiveness, redemption, piece of mind and all those free but priceless things in life we strive for but never really obtain? Not without faith. Everyone puts faith in something to some measure. But in 35 years, I haven’t found something better to put my faith in. I cannot explain how my daughter who was born with a severely debilitating congenital condition called Arthrogryposis, is almost walking normally and is a super bright and beautiful kid at eight years old now. Despite literally being born with all her limbs twisted backwards and no developed hip sockets. It’s really a miracle. It really is. The first doctor we had recommended abortion. I am a C+ Christian at best; and if you knew me the way I know me, you’d agree that I'm the one that should be the preachee not the preacher. And C+ I think, is about as good as I’m ever gonna be…as opposed to the popular culture standards I (we) are held to. The great thing is, C+ is good enough. For as screwed up as I am (I won’t lie, but I darn sure ain’t tellin any details), I know I’m saved, I know there’s a God and a heaven. I’m back in Iraq now, facing divorce, and my own financial and medical issues, the pending death of my father, and a ton of other crap the world has put on me. So I’m going outside to smoke a cigar and chill for a bit and talk to the Galilean. The same guy that puts twinkle in the stars and beating hearts in sonogram monitors. Same guy that makes ladybugs. I cannot look up to the night sky and not believe in God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Creation definitely. Mates, The first doctor we had recommended abortion. whole post was inspiring, but this just :headpop: :fs1: and "there's no atheists in fox holes" btw, thank you for your service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetjeep2.5 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Tell ya what, guys. I am a pastor that must always fight the temptation to "idolize" my MJ. :bowdown: If this thread finally goes the way of most threads and finally fades away, I would welcome any of you continuing the discussion via email ... or visiting the church of which I am the pastor. Creation is important (Hebrews 11:3, "By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible"), but what God has done for us in Him who was present at creation and became mankind's savior after mankind fell into sin, is the central issue. Sooooo ... email me if you wish (streetjeep327@juno.com) or drop by our small country church at 528 West Hudson in Wellsville, MO. Phone is 573.684.2106 and our website is http://lutheransonline.com/gracelcms Jeep on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Do you guys think that Christianity/Religious and Creationism are mutually exclusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Do you guys think that Christianity/Religious and Creationism are mutually exclusive? what do you mean by exlusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Do you guys think that Christianity/Religious and Creationism are mutually exclusive? what do you mean by exlusive? Like, can you be Christian but not believe in Creationism; or is it, you are Christian, so you have to believe in Creationism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Do you guys think that Christianity/Religious and Creationism are mutually exclusive? what do you mean by exlusive? Like, can you be Christian but not believe in Creationism; or is it, you are Christian, so you have to believe in Creationism? unfortanetly now days Christian is too broad of a term. but to be a Christian you kinda gotta believe a few basic principles and/or teachings, such as God is our creator, he created adam and eve, not evolved them out of amebas (sp?), or made a big bang. followed by God sending his son to die for our sins, and for us to have eternal life in heaven with God all we have to do is believe and accept that. denying God as our creator i would have to say disqualifies someone as a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990 Pioneer 4x4 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Tell ya what, guys. I am a pastor that must always fight the temptation to "idolize" my MJ. :bowdown: If this thread finally goes the way of most threads and finally fades away, I would welcome any of you continuing the discussion via email ... or visiting the church of which I am the pastor. Creation is important (Hebrews 11:3, "By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible"), but what God has done for us in Him who was present at creation and became mankind's savior after mankind fell into sin, is the central issue. Sooooo ... email me if you wish (streetjeep327@juno.com) or drop by our small country church at 528 West Hudson in Wellsville, MO. Phone is 573.684.2106 and our website is http://lutheransonline.com/gracelcms Jeep on!!! Why do we only hear about two theories; evolution or creation? Why couldn’t there be a third choice – God created the universe and earth and we evolved from there? :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Tell ya what, guys. I am a pastor that must always fight the temptation to "idolize" my MJ. :bowdown: If this thread finally goes the way of most threads and finally fades away, I would welcome any of you continuing the discussion via email ... or visiting the church of which I am the pastor. Creation is important (Hebrews 11:3, "By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible"), but what God has done for us in Him who was present at creation and became mankind's savior after mankind fell into sin, is the central issue. Sooooo ... email me if you wish (streetjeep327@juno.com) or drop by our small country church at 528 West Hudson in Wellsville, MO. Phone is 573.684.2106 and our website is http://lutheransonline.com/gracelcms Jeep on!!! Why do we only hear about two theories; evolution or creation? Why couldn’t there be a third choice – God created the universe and earth and we evolved from there? :dunno: I was about to post that idea - in general, though, I think most people either swing one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 because evolution is the "theory of evolution", and creationism generally refers to the story in Genesis. Anything in between will likely be frowned upon by both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpdocdave Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 ya i agree w/ pete, its basically scientists saying the bible is wrong, or christians saying its not. i like the story of an elder in the new testament that was telling the jewish elders to be aware what they're doing w/ Jesus, and the deciples. He said, (paraphrasing) if Jesus is not the son of God, the whole deal will be over shortly just like the last guy that got people to follow him, and the followers will be scattered and gone, BUT, if he is the son of God, how are you going to fight against God? If God is not our creator, how come the bible, and this belief has been around so long, and has probably the largest following, and at the same time has the largest opposition. kinda makes you think something has to be going on there ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 If you're interested in the details of this debate, watch Ben Stien's Movie about Intelligent Design. He breaks down the theory of evolution at its starting point gives you the odds and lets you decide. Really a great movie and not done in a religious fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sam Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I just watched Religious, what an awesome movie, gonna have to add it to my library. Also, has his noodly appendage touched you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEThomas Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 DAM, Each time I stop back buy it more like NAXJA :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joop Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Evolution. Simply because it makes perfect sense to me! I belive that every living object on this planet have evolved from that single seed of life, in whatever shape and form it had, millions of years ago. I also belive that when I die, thats it! Game over, system shutdown, format c: etc etc... And thats the driving force in my life, the fact that i belive there is no heaven or hell, no life after death, no God that watches us from above. Thats what get me up from bed in the morning, I want to live my life to the max, experience nature in all its beauty, do a good job, make people around me happy, and do my very best to make shure the generations that follow me will get theyr chance to live theyr life as good, hopefully better, then I have. I guess thats what we all want to do no matter what we belive in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Do you guys think that Christianity/Religious and Creationism are mutually exclusive? "Mutually exclusive" means if it is one, it cannot be the other. The one excludes the other, and the other excludes the one. If Christianity and Creationism are mutually exclusive, then if you are a Christian you cannot be a creationist, and if you are a creationist you cannot be a Christian. Not sure, but I don't think that's what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigalpha Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Do you guys think that Christianity/Religious and Creationism are mutually exclusive? "Mutually exclusive" means if it is one, it cannot be the other. The one excludes the other, and the other excludes the one. If Christianity and Creationism are mutually exclusive, then if you are a Christian you cannot be a creationist, and if you are a creationist you cannot be a Christian. Not sure, but I don't think that's what you meant. Whoops. You're right. That is not what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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