Death wobble.

[89 MJ]

2 minutes ago, A-man930 said:

 

What data do you have to support this claim? 

 

(Not trying to be snarky)

He and I have gone back and forth on it for a while on the side. If I remember right, pretty much all of the steering and suspension is new from a different problem and it fairly recently had an alignment. From my memory, the only thing that changed after the alignment was the springs. But that's also going off of my memory, so I might be missing something.

[eaglescout526]

15 minutes ago, A-man930 said:

What data do you have to support this claim?

I never had death wobble until now…. The newest factor here is the light duty springs. I put them on to smooth out my MJ suspension not taking into fact that the caster would be off. The MJ sits lower than previously. I also had an alignment done with the standard duty springs still installed. Plus I’ve been pretty unhappy with the light duty springs since trying to find the cause of my steering clocking. So the springs are getting changed regardless. 
 

Now something I very much remember is when I had the light duty springs when I first got my MJ, there wasn’t a lot of shims in place. I remember changing my springs later on and remembered being suggested by the dodge dealer that I used to work at to add some shims in when I had an alignment done there many moons ago. I did that and everything was also fine with no issue. 
 

I will however make sure everything is good and tight. Knowing me I probably forgot to tighten down a control arm bolt while putting everything back together. 

[A-man930]

8 minutes ago, 89 MJ said:

He and I have gone back and forth on it for a while on the side. If I remember right, pretty much all of the steering and suspension is new from a different problem and it fairly recently had an alignment. From my memory, the only thing that changed after the alignment was the springs. But that's also going off of my memory, so I might be missing something.

 

I was asking for data on your "caster was the issue on the JK"

 

@eaglescout526 you need to clear these up before I get off this horse... 

Don't just tighten them.  Remove them and inspect the female tapers.  

Also, have you done all 3 of the shakedown checks I described?  

 

[eaglescout526]

1 minute ago, A-man930 said:

 

I was asking for data on your "caster was the issue on the JK"

 

@eaglescout526 you need to clear these up before I get off this horse... 

 

 

Cant exactly do it while I’m at work but it’s on my list. 

[A-man930]

3 minutes ago, eaglescout526 said:

can't exactly do it while I’m at work but it’s on my list. 

 

I get it. Just trying to help you avoid more round and round. 

Just a dumb "gut feel", but I don't think caster is your issue. I bet you've wallored-out a taper somewhere or the frame-side track bar mount.  

[89 MJ]

8 minutes ago, A-man930 said:

I was asking for data on your "caster was the issue on the JK"

 

I see now. My dad went back to our tried and true method of tape measure and an old school angle finder. It was off by something like 3 degrees if I recall correctly. Problem is my parents don't have any alignment shops local that really know how to do alignments on solid axle vehicles anymore, so apparently they never touched the caster.

[eaglescout526]

16 minutes ago, A-man930 said:

Just a dumb "gut feel", but I don't think caster is your issue. I bet you've wallored-out a taper somewhere or the frame-side track bar mount.

That’s a fear of mine. I know when I had the first death wobble a few months back that was the first thing I checked. Was still good. Now that I had it happen 2-3 more times, I fear it could be toast. 
Now this got me thinking…I’ll get back to this. 
 

Honestly I appreciate y’all’s help and input on this. Don’t think otherwise that I don’t.
 This is the only place on the internet where you can ask these kinds of questions and not be bombarded with more questions and scrutiny. I knew I opened a can of worms but I want thoughts and opinions. 

[A-man930]

6 minutes ago, eaglescout526 said:

That’s a fear of mine. I know when I had the first death wobble a few months back that was the first thing I checked. Was still good. Now that I had it happen 2-3 more times, I fear it could be toast. 

Describe how you are checking.

[eaglescout526]

30 minutes ago, A-man930 said:

Describe how you are checking.

Without having a caliper, I unbolted the track bar at the axle side and moved the track bar while still tightened down for any movement that wasn’t the ball joint itself. I felt nothing nor was there any movement. I then put it back together, unbolted the bar at the frame side and inspected the hole with my eyes and didn’t see it looking wallowed out. 

[A-man930]

24 minutes ago, eaglescout526 said:

Without having a caliper, I unbolted the track bar at the axle side and moved the track bar while still tightened down for any movement that wasn’t the ball joint itself. I felt nothing nor was there any movement. I then put it back together, unbolted the bar at the frame side and inspected the hole with my eyes and didn’t see it looking wallowed out. 

I've honestly forgotten which side of the OE track bar has the bolted bushing versus the tapered stud rod end/ ball joint. Make sure you get a good visual on both.

Look up how to do a dry park test. You will need someone at the steering wheel for this - it's the closest you can get to replicating the true forces applied during use because you're involving the weight of the vehicle and the torque multiplication of the steering wheel and box. Checking by hand only, as you're describing or otherwise, leaves room for doubt.

[ratrapp]

ive never heard of checking a track bar unbolted from one end or another.bolt the track bar in and have someone rock the steering wheel left and right and watch for movement at the joint and at the bushing.

[eaglescout526]

tracking my findings here.

 

9/9/25

One nut found out of torque spec-pitman arm to linkage tie rod

Found track bar bracket to frame bolts loose, loose enough to spin but not come undone thanks to years of oil and rust. Now torqued to spec.

Found an outline of the bracket having possibly moved each and every time when I turned. Probably resulting in my steering clocking issue.

 

9/10 Found both ends of the track bar hard ware not torqued to spec

 

9/11 Everything within spec on the pass side.

 

I think that bracket has been my problem for some time. This would make sense for both my clocking after turns and getting DW to trigger on the drivers side. Thinking about the 3 times it happened, the wobble and vibrations were felt more in the frame than the steering. I have yet to take a drive but will soon and will drive to the spots where I got DW to trigger. Never would I have ever thought about that bracket. Arent these typically stuck and rusted in place? Haha.

[A-man930]

I bet you've got it fixed. 

[Pete M]

everything is suspect.  everything should be thoroughly inspected. 

 

everything.  

 

I imagine you've got this one licked   but the proof is in the driving.

[eaglescout526]

Went for a drive.

 

Clocking issue is fixed....DW came back but more aggressively this time.

[A-man930]

Torqued to spec is nice, but if the tapers are trashed it doesn't matter. 

Have you done a dry park test yet? 

[eaglescout526]

20 minutes ago, A-man930 said:

Torqued to spec is nice, but if the tapers are trashed it doesn't matter. 

Have you done a dry park test yet? 

Not yet. I don’t have anyone at home to help me at the moment. So I’m taking that time to make sure everything else is within spec. I found the control arms at the axle to be a little under spec. Next will be the ball joints. I’ll probably just lower the track bar at the frame side and make sure the hole doesn’t look trashed or wallowed out. I wonder if I should put my Mopar track bar back in. It’s not bad to the point where it’s questionable but the joint is stiff and quickly moves from one side to the other when checking it for movements. 

[eaglescout526]

Found the ball joints to be out of spec on torque. Torqued now. I forget how much those things need. At this point everything is torqued. The only thing I can suspect is joints of the whole steering to have failed despite not even being half a year old. 

[eaglescout526]

Ok, went for a drive. I could feel it wanting to trigger a couple times but it seemed a little harder to get it to trigger. But I did finally get it to trigger. Im looking at 3 ideas, track bar is just garbage along with the mounting hole.

Tires are out of balance

Or toe is off. Though I am not sure this one would trigger it.

[ratrapp]

believe it or not bad or severely out of balance tires will cause death wobble.

[eaglescout526]

5 hours ago, ratrapp said:

believe it or not bad or severely out of balance tires will cause death wobble.

I do believe it. It’s on my list. I’ll go to my local discount and have them make sure the balance is correct. 
 

Im leaning toward track bar being an issue. What sucks though is it doesn’t seem like there’s alot of choices for track bars. Most are made by one company and the brands simply relabel the part number minus the 1147 portion of the number. 
How ever the same number is doing pretty well on the XJ…but the track bar on the MJ has gone through 5 death wobbles at this point. 

[ghetdjc320]

4 hours ago, eaglescout526 said:

I do believe it. It’s on my list. I’ll go to my local discount and have them make sure the balance is correct. 
 

I'm leaning toward track bar being an issue. What sucks though is it doesn’t seem like there’s alot of choices for track bars. Most are made by one company and the brands simply relabel the part number minus the 1147 portion of the number. 
How ever the same number is doing pretty well on the XJ…but the track bar on the MJ has gone through 5 death wobbles at this point. 

I battled DW Coming from the TB on my last MJ and some on my new one as well. The best setup I got that cured it was the Iron Man Fab track bar setup. You get a double sheet frame side bracket that keep the stock angles, a cross frame tie bar which greatly stabilizes that bracket, and a solid tie rod with different axle side bolt sizes to choose from. I went up to 1/2” and welded on some 14mm thick cuts and washers as well to reinforce the axle side bracket. After that all DW was gone. When I did steering tests on dry pavement with the engine running, you could see the oem frame side track bar bracket separating at its weld joint meet the frame. The factory seems to have designed it for light duty and low use. 

[ThatJeepGuy]

16 hours ago, eaglescout526 said:

I'm looking at 3 ideas, track bar is just garbage along with the mounting hole.

 

For the love of goddess would you check this already!?

 

With the pictures you posted of your frame side bracket bolts being sloppy - it doesn't take much if the axle side bolt was lose as well to have an egged out hole.

[eaglescout526]

14 hours ago, ThatJeepGuy said:

For the love of goddess would you check this already!

Process of elimination mi amigo!

 

How ever I found exactly what I was going to expect when I removed the track bar. 
 

 

Bad pic alignment on the axle but they’re both completely round and as they should. 
 

Now I’d be damn impressed if the hole for the frame mount wallowed out. That that is some thick iron. 
How ever. Two things. One the tie rod for the track bar is rather loose. 
Compared to the old mopar bar still laying around, it’s really loose. The mopar bar requires some effort to move the tie rod. 
 

Another concern is the bolt thickness at the axle. Is a slight wiggle ok there? I feel like it is but I’d imagine the bolt is supposed to fit snug in the axle side. This is with the bolt in the bushing not the axle. Though there is some wiggle there but that goes away as your torque it down. 

[A-man930]

Visual inspection looks good. Does the bolt look worn out? However, wiggling joints with your hands is next to pointless unless the joint is totally trashed.

Get a partner to cycle the wheel back and forth with the weight on the tires. Observe and feel each joint in the entirety of the suspension and steering. It takes 5 minutes.