Power Windows/Locks

[youngfred]

...

 

 

Building a harness for the Drivers-side Power Windows/Locks.

I got the Lock's Relays wired-in already.

 

Should I add Relays for each of the Window Motors?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

youngfred

[87MJTIM]

 

I need to fix the Pwr locks and slow passenger side window.

[Minuit]

I wouldn't bother with building your own harness. Too much work when a perfectly adequate OEM option exists.

 

My 2 cents - find a 91, 92 or maybe 93 cross-body harness and do it with OEM parts. If you have access to the FSM wiring diagram, there is very little work (a couple of wires on the driver's door switch panel, and power/ground) needed to adapt it to an MJ. 2-door or 4-door. You can also get power mirrors by plugging in a fuse tap and a switch.

 

That's the entirety of the 91-92 front power accessory circuit, and yes I did power it up disembodied on my garage floor before I put it in my truck. All it needs is 12V and a ground. I got mine from a 4-door XJ but a 2-door is the same basic harness.

 

Why those years? The Renix era are infamous for very sluggish power lock operation and have a different plug for the window regulators. The later HO years have the lock relay circuit integrated into the dash harness. The 91 and 92 harness is stand-alone and plugs into the fuse box via circuit breakers for power.

 

I wouldn't worry about relays for the windows. If the regulators are cleaned they work just fine.

[WahooSteeler]

4 hours ago, 87MJTIM said:

 

I need to fix the Pwr locks and slow passenger side window.

 

Tim, I am finishing up doing this on mine and a couple comments to offer:

1. As mentioned above, the power locks are slow no matter what, the passenger side especially. I cleaned the switch mounting block with copious amounts of electric contact cleaner, brushed and sanded the switch posts, opened the switch itself and cleaned all contact points, and cleaned the connectors at the actuator. I had bought new actuators thinking that was the problem but it's the same with the OE or the new one. I thought maybe one of the rods had a slight bend in it but after reading this thread it appears the slowness is "just how it is". I'll probably add Minuit's mod to the long list of "to do's", but since they work that will be on the "want to" list and not the "have to" or "need to". 
2. Pretty much the exact same thing with the passenger window regarding cleaning of switches and contacts. It was super slow and I assumed the motor was also worn out. Also the rubber sheath that protects the worm gear when it is extended was somehow missing and the metal on the gear was a bit rusty and the felt worn out. So I replaced it with an aftermarket one and while it certainly is quicker, it was not what I expected. On a side note, my OE regulator has what I would consider an unusual bend in it that I wonder if it contributed to that one being slow. 

All that said, Minuit, what do you think of this mod I ran across on an XJ page on FB? 19v converter the guy put in line for his windows. $20 part on Amazon. 

 

 

 

 

[youngfred]

5 hours ago, Minuit said:

I wouldn't bother with building your own harness. Too much work when a perfectly adequate OEM option exists.

 

My 2 cents - find a 91, 92 or maybe 93 cross-body harness and do it with OEM parts. If you have access to the FSM wiring diagram, there is very little work (a couple of wires on the driver's door switch panel, and power/ground) needed to adapt it to an MJ. 2-door or 4-door. You can also get power mirrors by plugging in a fuse tap and a switch.

 

That's the entirety of the 91-92 front power accessory circuit, and yes I did power it up disembodied on my garage floor before I put it in my truck. All it needs is 12V and a ground. I got mine from a 4-door XJ but a 2-door is the same basic harness.

 

Why those years? The Renix era are infamous for very sluggish power lock operation and have a different plug for the window regulators. The later HO years have the lock relay circuit integrated into the dash harness. The 91 and 92 harness is stand-alone and plugs into the fuse box via circuit breakers for power.

 

I wouldn't worry about relays for the windows. If the regulators are cleaned they work just fine.

 

...

 

 

Thanks Minuit.

 

I have both 1991 and 1995 FSMs.

I was planning to use those to wire/splice connectors .

 

I have an early 90's 2-Door Passenger door harness.

 

 

 

 

I just picked up 1995, 4-Door Cross Body Harness and both

1995 front-door harnesses.

The Connector-ends on these 1995 are different than the early-90's harness.

 

 

~

 

I have the A-B-C-D Connector(pictured above on my first post), to use on the Master Driver's side Switch Panel

and I was going to try to use on the 1995 Cross Body Harness but it looks a lot different...???

 

 

youngfred

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[87MJTIM]

I found this write up to fix the power locks along time ago (in a galaxy far, far away).  See the second post in the thread.

 

https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1874&highlight=door+lock

 

I have not taken the time to make this modification.

[Minuit]

On 5/14/2020 at 12:42 PM, WahooSteeler said:

 

 

All that said, Minuit, what do you think of this mod I ran across on an XJ page on FB? 19v converter the guy put in line for his windows. $20 part on Amazon. 

 

 

Mine are almost that fast with the standard wiring. When I installed the wiring, I cleaned every connection. What really made a difference was cleaning and lubricating the "snake" on each regulator as well as making sure the window is not binding on the weatherstripping (generally, they don't). As far as I'm concerned, 90% or more of the "slow/stiff window regulator" complaints are from people who have not done this. I do not think running a 12V motor on 19V would be a good idea long-term and I am generally against such "fixes"

 

I did the same thing to my 89's manual regulators when I swapped the doors. That made the windows very easy to roll up and down by hand, where they were very stiff beforehand.

 

As I understand it, the NAXJA power lock fix essentially turns the Renix setup into the 91+ setup. The locks on my truck using 91 wiring are about as energetic as you'd want power locks to be.

 

Another benefit for @youngfred using 1991 or 1992 wiring - the 1991 FSM wiring diagram will be correct. That's something that a LOT of people overlook right up until they have a problem to diagnose.

 

@youngfred - Starting in either 1993 or 1994, the power lock wiring was moved to the dash harness "relay center" which isn't really present on a 91 or 92. The cross body harness from 1991 until the introduction of the "relay center" makes for an almost plug and play installation of power windows and locks. The relays for that harness live under the passenger side kick panel, and the 4-door XJs have the harness separated into front and rear halves. For an MJ, you only need the front half that runs under the carpet in the front, and plugs into the fusebox and door harnesses.

 

The door harnesses I used for my conversion match your bottom picture, and I believe they are compatible 1991-1996.

[WahooSteeler]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:02 AM, Minuit said:

I wouldn't worry about relays for the windows. If the regulators are cleaned they work just fine.

 

Minuit, I have a new regulator in my pass side, cleaned the switch, rubber mounting block thing best i could and put new connectors on the regulator end since OE does not fit aftermarket connector. Still slow...........recommendations? 

 

Also, why would you lube the worm gear? It has felt in between the coils and comes w/out any kind of lube on it. Seems counter-intuitive to lube that.  

[Minuit]

1 hour ago, WahooSteeler said:

Also, why would you lube the worm gear?

Why does almost every original manual regulator I touch take so much force to roll up that I'm concerned about breaking the handle off in my hand, and yet I can do the same thing in my 89 (with original regulators, cleaned and lubed several months ago) with two fingers? If that felt lining works so well, why do so many people need to replace them due to stripped out sections in the worm gear assembly? That's actually why my 91 has power windows - I'd already stripped out a passenger side and was well on my way to stripping out the driver side when I decided I had had enough.

 

They weren't lubed from the factory, but the factory also gave us wonders like the C101 connector.

 

Here is my benchmark for a good running window regulator - this is the one from my 91, freshly cleaned and lubed, key on engine off. That regulator is 26 years old and had 200k on it before I yanked it out of the junkyard and put it in my truck a couple of years ago. It's considerably faster with the engine running. Compared to most other cars, new and old, with power windows, this is well within the average for the vehicles I've seen. Not counting stuff like big rigs with air powered windows - those are stupid fast.

 

This also assumes that you're getting battery voltage at the regulator under load - backprobe the connector with it plugged in, operate the regulator in both directions, and see if you are. The current has a long path to travel from battery to window motor, and there are plenty of opportunities for voltage drop.

 

[youngfred]

...

 

 

Found a 1995 4-door XJ that had been t-boned

on the right, front door.

 

I was able to pull both front doors. The right-side door

was bent but both of the door panels are in great shape.

I bench-tested both power regulators and they work smoothly.

 

It was a Country 4-door so it had added soundproofing.

 

It also had the wood grain interior door panels and the gauge

cluster bezel in wood grain. I gonna try to see if I like. It is a little

bit darker Gray, then the MJ.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I also snagged the Overhead Console that was in perfect shape and the temp sensor and harness, .

 

 

 

The console is going into my 2-door panel XJ.

It already has Power Window and Power Locks. 

 

 

 

I am going back to get the under-dash harness because,

as you said, Minuit, it has the wiring for the Power-Lock Relays

and the rest of the Overhead Console wiring.

 

Thanks again, Minuit and stay-strong and safe.

 

 

youngfred

 

 

 

[youngfred]

...

 

 

Using the 91 and the 95 FSMs, I was able to wire-in

the Relays, like-used on the 91, to the 95 cross-body harness.

 

Used both 95 Door Harnesses and I used existing wiring,

of the 95 cross-body harness and waited until the very end

to do any cutting  and/or splicing. I wanted to use all existing

OEM end-wiring connectors to limit the amount of resistance,

on the window circuits.

 

All splicing was:

Tin all wire-ends

Use Bare-Butt Connectors

Crimp with correct wire-crimping tool

After crimping, heated both ends of each butt connector and some quick-heat

a drop of solder-flow, in order to get crimped/tinned wire-ends to flow, inside the connector.

Finish off with Adhesive Shrink Tubing.

 

Hooked everything up and used a 12v power supply to do the smoke test.

 

Everything worked:

 

Both window regulators moved up and down.

The Lock/Unlock Switch on the Master LH side for the RH Window regulator, worked.

I had to flip two wires to get the Lock/Unlock Actuators to

sync-up with the door switches.

'Lock' on the switch would raise the plunger.

Easy fix.

 

 

 

Just finished wrapping the harnesses with harness tape

and they are all ready to install.

 

 

 

youngfred

 

[Minuit]

Good work! You should clean the window regulator snakes while you've got them out too.

[youngfred]

8 hours ago, Minuit said:

Good work! You should clean the window regulator snakes while you've got them out too.

 

...

 

 

Thanks Minuit.

 

I hit each of the regulator-snake tracks and

the window-glass tracks, with this stuff.

 

Really made a difference on the window-glass tracks.

 

With the regulators not connected, I sprayed the window tracks,

then grabbed each door's glass and worked each up and down

to move the lithium grease around in each window track

and the glass began to move freely.

 

Good Stuff, this 'Grasa Blanca De Litio'  

 

 

 

 

 

youngfred

 

 

 

[silvertwinkiehobo]

Youngfred, you stated that the door locks worked backward; Maveric and I are having the same problem. Do you swap the orange/purple and pink/purple wires?

[omega_rugal]

8 hours ago, silvertwinkiehobo said:

Youngfred, you stated that the door locks worked backward; Maveric and I are having the same problem. Do you swap the orange/purple and pink/purple wires?

 

swap the wires that go to the motor

[silvertwinkiehobo]

Well, I was hoping for one solution, not two, but I'll talk with Maveric about it. I was just going to swap the two wires I described.

[Minuit]

Applying 12V to the orange/purple wire should lock the doors. Applying 12V to the pink/purple wire should unlock. If each wire does what it's supposed to, swap those two wires at the switch.

 

No need to swap the wires at each actuator. Fix it right.

 

If needed, I can provide the relevant pages from the '91 FSM. Be warned that the diagrams aren't exactly cleanly laid out.

[Maveric]

That's what we were figuring, we'll try it, thanks.

[youngfred]

23 hours ago, silvertwinkiehobo said:

Youngfred, you stated that the door locks worked backward; Maveric and I are having the same problem. Do you swap the orange/purple and pink/purple wires?

...

 

 

I don't really,

recall???

 

I believe that I switched the Lock/Unlock- 30A wires on each Relay Side.

This was one I tried, for sure

along with,

flipping pink/orange.

 

 

youngfred

 

 

 

 

[silvertwinkiehobo]

Well, got pink and orange wires flipped to the relays, and now they lock/unlock in the correct direction. EXCEPT. I I now find that, with the driver's switch hooked up, the passenger switch won't operate the locks; unplugged, the locks operate, fortunately in the correct direction. I've been over the wiring I dunno how many effing times, comparing it to the diagrams, and honestly, this has me stumped, and the Texas heat likes to friccassee my brain. Has anyone installing locks with relays, on their MJ, run into this problem?

[Minuit]

Oh! I know this problem! Are you using Renix era switch panels on HO era wiring? There's probably a grounding pad on the back of the driver side switch panel you'll need to pry the contacts off of. That thread includes pics of what the difference is and what you need to do.

 

 

[silvertwinkiehobo]

Damn, You're good! I just remembered that I saw a tiny arc when Joe and I tested the switches, so thank you, I'll do that later today. I appreciate it.

[ghetdjc320]

Have a question to add to this discussion. I have the door and cross body harness all from the 95 XJ. The drivers side door harness is from a 2dr. There is a 6 position red connector that has two wires coming into it from the rubber switch block and two going out to the door lock actuator. This appears to be some sort of maybe a sentry or keyless module. Can I just remove it and splice those wires together? Here is a picture of the offending connector:

 

Tagging @Minuit & @youngfred

 

Also need to sort out which lines need to get power and relays in the new crosscab harness. 

[Rubikahn]

Reviving this old thread. I just picked up all this from a 96 2-door XJ. The power window/ lock driver side harness, the passenger side harness, and cross body harness. I also have both driver and passenger side switches. After going through this thread it seems I’m going to have rewire a few things to get it to work in my 89 Comanche. There is only one plug in the driver’s side harness that was clipped into the fuse panel. Was there a relay center I should’ve grabbed as well from the passenger side? I don’t recall seeing anything like that there tbh. 

[ghetdjc320]

6 hours ago, Rubikahn said:

Reviving this old thread. I just picked up all this from a 96 2-door XJ. The power window/ lock driver side harness, the passenger side harness, and cross body harness. I also have both driver and passenger side switches. After going through this thread it seems I’m going to have rewire a few things to get it to work in my 89 Comanche. There is only one plug in the driver’s side harness that was clipped into the fuse panel. Was there a relay center I should’ve grabbed as well from the passenger side? I don’t recall seeing anything like that there tbh. 

I also have all 96 wiring. There is no relay for the windows. There is a thicker gauge tan wire that needs power from the fuse box and also a ground line. That will run all the window power. There is a connector on the drivers side of the cross-cab harness that is for the door locks relays. You’ll have to make your own simple relay setup. I’ll try to snap some pics of it tomorrow.