Driveshaft fell out from differential with spindle on it!!!!!!

[88mancheman]

  Hey everyone! 

Today I had quite the extravaganza! on my way to work today I had to stop at a stoplight on a very steep hill, when I went to take off I heard a loud pop in the rear end but didn't think much of it as I thought it was something shifting around in the bed, then I noticed that every time I let off the gas I heard and odd whine in the rear end,  once I got to the job site I notice that their was some fluid on the front of the Dif where the driveshaft goes into it, again didn't think too much of it as I'm at work and have other things todo, on my way to the audio shop after work I grabbed some gear fluid and filled up the quite empty Dif, then proceeded to head over the hill to get my radio installed, the whole time over the hill every time I let off the gas and tried to decelerate or coast I heard this god awful whine grind sound from the rear end and it kinda vibrated, since I was on a small 2 lane road I had no decision but to drive on and just keep going faster and hope for hills to slow down, we got into San Jose and stopped at McDonalds to grab a quick burger, and as soon as I pulled out of the parking lot their was this loud clank and I had no power and could hear the driveshaft whipping around so I threw it in nuetral at a green light hopped out and tried to push but it seemed like the front axle was still in park so I hopped under to take a look and I saw that the driveshaft had slipped out of the diff with a spindle on it...... not sure if thats normal in any situation..... so I put it back in the diff and threw the truck in 4L and crawled it to the closest street where I found out my whole diff would rotate about 7 inches up and down past center when in gear and reverse so limped it to an auto zone 2 miles away and tightened the 8 19mm bolts on the U clamps holding the axle to the frame, it helped a lot with the rotation but maybe I needed to torque them more as I'm still hearing the awful sound from my rear end when I let off the gas and try to coast, does a driveshaft come off past the last U joint and with a spindle in any situation!? I think I'm screwed and need todo an axle swap this weekend  ill update with pictures in the morning when I take a better look at everything but could anyone have an idea of WTH is going on here other than a blown diff.................... 

[boxyjeep]

I don’t even know what to say. It sounds like your rear axle came loose, rotated, and pulled the slip hole (not spindle) out of your transfer case or transmission?

Something is definitely screwed. We will need pictures.


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[gogmorgo]

Pictures would definitely be helpful here, as would a little more info about the truck.

 

If your driveshaft actually came off at the differential, and came off with more than just the u-joint, either the pinion nut came off, or else the pinion gear itself broke off from its shaft. The shaft the ujoint flange is on is the same piece of steel as the pinion gear, and it comes out from the inside of the diff. So if thats what happened, then yeah something is right dickered.

 

I'd say this is a good time to upgrade to a better rear axle. It's not worth rebuilding a Dana 35, either, if thats what you've got. If you want to retain it for simplicity, you should be able to locate another one with your ratio (likely 3.55 if you're 4.0/automatic, its the most common at least) as they're not particularly sought after. But whatever you do, definitely get new u-bolts. You can't trust these ones any more. Your u-joints likely arent long for this world either if they've been run with a crazy pinion angle.

[Eagle]

We need photos, and I'd also like to know if the axle in the truck is the original axle. Whatever happened, it doesn't sound good, but your post left me feeling more than a little confused. I don't know what you mean by "spindle," but there's no part of the drive shaft that can pull out of the rear differential. The yoke is attached to the pinion gear by a nut, and the driveshaft is attached to the pinion yoke by straps with nuts on them.

 

The axle sits on the leaf springs with mounting pads that are flat on the bottom and welded to the axle tubes. Even if the u-bolts were loose, I don't see how that could be loose enough to allow the axle to rotate far enough for something to pull apart without the big axle u-bolts falling off.

[Eagle]

4 hours ago, saveevryjp1998 said:

If he let his his rear axle u-joint go bad to long at diff side, they sure do fall out. I had 1 drop on me an my 2nd xj on my way back from harbor freight after buying a cheap press to do it myself. I ended up driving home in 4 high spewing Peugeot blood everywhere! Needless to say I should have paid the shop that wanted $200 bucks to press it where I was at since it the shaft not only got destroyed but ripped off my new cat, muffler, and pipe.  It took me a few jeeps and several u-joints to recoup that cheap mistake. I learned quick that after I offroad anywhere now, its the first thing I watch as well as front axle u-joints. They don't last long with Haspin Acres clay packed in there!

 

I am well aware of what can happen when a u-joint fails. However, the OP wrote that

 

I saw that the driveshaft had slipped out of the diff with a spindle on it......

 

Since everything at the differential end is bolted together, there is nothing that can "slip out." Before we can offer any advice, we need to properly understand what happened ... and I cannot figure out what happened from the description provided.

[dasbulliwagen]

Sounds like two different issues. First sounds like the pinion nut came off and combined with the possibility that he's spring over axle with the perches NOT welded on or with rusted broken perches causing the axle housing rotation and allowing the shaft to then fall out due to the pinion nut issue.

[dvitha]

Sounds like the pinion bolt had been loosened at some time. When we do the pinion bold after setting preload and on the crushed point in side, we use locker on the thread. I have had them come to the shop in bad condition like this before. I seen something like this before and they guy had just went from 3.55 to 4.10. He did not put the thread locker on, drive 500 miles and it came loose. I have seen ujoints get pulled apart broken after shafts, and things like that. However ever time that bolt came off, some one was in the diff changed things and did not button it up right.

[Eagle]

All possibilities, but there is no part associated with the rear driveshaft or differential that is called a "spindle," and there isn't anything that can "pull out of" the rear differential, so until the OP comes back and explains what happened we really are just guessing.

[dvitha]

spindle on the pinion if some how it broke in half, which does not even seem possible !

 

[HOrnbrod]

3 hours ago, Eagle said:

All possibilities, but there is no part associated with the rear driveshaft or differential that is called a "spindle," and there isn't anything that can "pull out of" the rear differential, so until the OP comes back and explains what happened we really are just guessing.

 

Dana 44 Spindle

 

Glad I read this thread. When I read that you were supposed to use red Loctite on the pinion yoke nut when setting the preload it rang my bell - I forgot to do it when I installed the u-bolt pinion yoke last year. Luckily I had some original install pics and saw that there were three threads showing at the end of the yoke shaft when finished. Crawled under and checked - still three threads showing so the nut didn't back off. This time I staked the nut on with a center punch at two opposite sides on the shaft just to be safe it never will back off. Thanks for that..     

[DirtyComanche]

46 minutes ago, HOrnbrod said:

 

Dana 44 Spindle

 

That's a front D44 spindle.  Also used in the rear with certain bastardized full float/manual hub conversions (normally for flat towing), but those kits are quite rare.

[gogmorgo]

And also it goes at the wheel end, not the driveshaft. Although I have occasionally heard axle shafts referred to as driveshafts... But it doesn't seem to fit with what the OP is saying. 

[Eagle]

5 hours ago, dvitha said:

spindle on the pinion if some how it broke in half, which does not even seem possible !

 

 

What spindle is on the rear differential? I've never heard of one.

 

[Jeep Driver]

Why is there no photo associated with this thread?

[DirtyComanche]

26 minutes ago, Jeep Driver said:

Why is there no photo associated with this thread?

 

Because then we might actually know what's going on.  Wouldn't want that, would we?

[AZJeff]

3 hours ago, DirtyComanche said:

 

Because then we might actually know what's going on.  Wouldn't want that, would we?

Wow.  This is becoming a tough crowd here.

 

I am waiting for the OP to explain, in more detail, exactly what he means and/or what really happened.   Right now, we are all just yuking it up as to possible issues.

[Eagle]

31 minutes ago, AZJeff said:

Wow.  This is becoming a tough crowd here.

 

I am waiting for the OP to explain, in more detail, exactly what he means and/or what really happened.   Right now, we are all just yuking it up as to possible issues.

 

I don't think we're trying to be a tough crowd. Most of the members here are more than willing to offer advice and counsel, as well as explain what mistakes we've made in the past so new Comanche owners can avoid our past misdeeds. BUT ... in order to provide useful advice, it is first necessary to understand what the problem is. When the first post about a problem doesn't include photos, and uses words that can't possibly apply to the situation, it's very difficult to offer anything constructive.

 

I've got some guesses as to what might have happened, but I won't offer advice based on guesses because I'll probably be wrong -- and that's not helpful. So, 88mancheman, please give us more details, and post some photos. Be sure to include photos of the big u-bolts holding the axle to the springs.

[HOrnbrod]

48 minutes ago, AZJeff said:

Wow.  This is becoming a tough crowd here.

 

I am waiting for the OP to explain, in more detail, exactly what he means and/or what really happened.

 

Me too. In case you haven't noticed, that's the norm here when the OP disappears after introducing an interesting problem. Speculation maximus occurs. Nothing wrong with that. At least the conversation is flowing.

[88mancheman]

Thank you everyone for your fast responses  I saw your posts Saturday morning and immediately ran out and ripped my duct tape off and slid the driveshaft off the diff and I was reassured that I didn't have to buy a new axle right away as the nut that holds the back half of the yoke onto the pinion spline shaft seemed to have backed out when I was on that steep hill and was no longer holding the yoke onto the back of the pinion gear, it would stay in place when the driveshaft was under load and extended but during breaking and deceleration the driveshaft would shorten I guess and allow the yoke to slide off the spindle on the pinion gear, I ended up taking the U joint apart and heading down to auto zone and ordered a new nut and U joint but they won't be here till tomorrow(Wednesday) so I just got a 7/8-14 fine thread nut and a washer and some red locktite at Ace down the street and buttoned up the yoke back to the pinion gear spine shaft, since I didn't have a new U joint nor will I have one till tomorrow I just got new clamps for the U joint and used the old one for now since this is my DD and I needed it ASAP, should a normal locking nut with locktite be OK or should I change it ASAP?

 

Eagle this is the original Dana 35 as far as I can tell its a bit dark out now but I can send pictures tomorrow on lunch break to confirm, also I'm sorry my wording didn't make sense I guess after a few beers some words start to make a little more sense than others 

 

I'm sorry I don't have more pictures as soon as I found out it was fairly simple I fixed it as best I could and got back on the road but hopefully y'all can somewhat see whats going on their 

[Eagle]

The Dana 35 uses a crush sleeve to set the preload on the pinion bearing. To be strictly proper, any time that yoke comes off you should install a new crush sleeve and a new nut. The problem is that to properly set the crush sleeve you have to take the differential apart so the pinion gear is turning by itself. A friend who used to work in a Jeep dealership during the XJ/MJ years told me that when they changed a pinion seal, they just torqued the pinion nut to 250 foot-ponds and called it good.

 

Unfortunately, most of the reasonably-priced torque wrenches only go to 150 foot-pounds. So you can either see if Auto Zone has a 250 foot-pounder you can borrow, or use a 150 and after it clicks for 150 keep turning a bit farther and hope you got it close.

 

Those u-bolts holding the axle to the springs are supposed to be torqued, too. I don't recall what the torque is, but it's a bit more than hand tight. 14mm is larger than the 1/2-inch wheel studs, and we torque those to 100 foot-pounds (or so, depending on what year FSM you look at), so don't be afraid to make them tight. I'd go to around 75 foot-pounds if you don't have a source to look up the actual specification.

 

If those photos are the way it looks now, don't drive it. The yoke is what compresses the crush sleeve. The way it is in those photos, the pinion gear can move in and out of engagement with the ring gear, and that's going to trash the differential (if it hasn't already done so).

 

Looking at the second photo, it looks like the leaf spring is on top of the axle. That's not stock. Please take a better photo of the axle/spring mounting. The amount of rotation you described in your first post basically sounds impossible, so I'd like to see a good photo of how the axle is mounted in the truck.

[dasbulliwagen]

With that driveshaft it looks like it may have a slip yoke eliminator as well. That could account for enough movement for the driveshaft to fall out if the axle hosing didnt rotate in its mount, which by the way that spring over axle setup looks could be entirely possible.

[Eagle]

2 hours ago, dasbulliwagen said:

With that driveshaft it looks like it may have a slip yoke eliminator as well. That could account for enough movement for the driveshaft to fall out if the axle hosing didnt rotate in its mount, which by the way that spring over axle setup looks could be entirely possible.

 

That's why I wanted more/better photos of the axle-to-spring mounting. You have a good point, there is something funky about that driveshaft -- a photo of the full length of it and another at the front end of it would also be a good idea.

 

[Jeep Driver]

Hackery

[dvitha]

So from the pictures to me and the duck tape he has covering the spline, looks like he has a slip yoke in the middle of the drive shaft. his picture is only at the back. So if that is the case. the drive shaft slip yoke came out, because it was too short when the rear end dropped all the way. So maybe PO wanting extra movement for the drive shaft forward and backwards. However over axle lift was done on to after the design of the drive shaft that exceeded the shaft length during extension. or the design was not done right not allowing for fully extension when rear axle dropped.

[Eagle]

His description pretty clearly confirmed that the yoke came off the nose of the pinion gear. The space (1/4"?  3/8"?) between the yoke and the crush sleeve, where there should be contact, confirms this. There isn't anything (yet) to suggest that the slip spline in the driveshaft separated.