help with identifying axles

[motiusclyde]

just got the jeep in a trade and know nothing about it. it has a welded rear with missing shocks , I would prefer the opposite. Front diff cover says 3.54. So I should look for a stock comanche rear axle?

 

 

 

[87MJTIM]

Looks like a Chrysler 8.25 with a SOA swap in the rear.

 

Front is a Dana 30.  Probably stock.

[DesertRat1991]

Dana 30 Front

Chrysler 8.25 Rear from an XJ

 

You have a Bubba-fied spring over conversion.  Your OEM Comanche spring plates are flipped to work with the XJ perches.  Also, the overload leaf appears to have been removed from your leaf packs. 

[motiusclyde]

that is what I figured. this truck is pretty hacked together. so its save to assume I need to find another 8.25 that is also 3.54 except not welded?

[Pete M]

based on the fact that the stock XJ shock mounts are still lingering around, I'd wager that they didn't bother to move the leaf perches over to the MJ locations and your leafs are being twisted in their bushings.    

 

the axle might be perfectly good (97+ 8.25 is a desirable axle, earlier ones are less so), but you'll need the perches relocated and to pop open the cover and see what they did to weld it up.

 

also, that little deely hanging down to the left of the rear diff is your brake proportioning valve.  if it's still plumbed in, you'll want to secure the swing arm about level with the ground pointed towards the passenger side. normally it has a rod that attaches to the diff cover to adjust automatically for various weights in the bed.  

[Pete M]

whoops, forgot to add the pic of what happens to the bushings when owners forces the leafs to the XJ perches. 

[motiusclyde]

8 minutes ago, Pete M said:

whoops, forgot to add the pic of what happens to the bushings when owners forces the leafs to the XJ perches. 

 

 

hey what do ya know thats exactly what mine looks like...

 

[rokinn]

The rear load sensing valve is also disconnected and hanging down.  You'll need to deal with that to have proper braking response in the rear.

[motiusclyde]

ok so from what I can tell the load sensing valve is still plumbed in, whoever did the swap used the comanche leaf plates on the top of the ubolts. so maybe a good way to go for now is find some shorter shocks that fit, re attached the valve, and open up the diff and try and find the guts from a non welded 8.25. I suppose I have no idea if the axles ratios even match from to back. 

 

sorry, this is my first jeep and I have no idea what I am dealing with. I am a subaru guys and traded one of my rigs for this thing to learn about jeeps more!

 

thanks for all the replies!

[DesertRat1991]

1 minute ago, motiusclyde said:

ok so from what I can tell the load sensing valve is still plumbed in, whoever did the swap used the comanche leaf plates on the top of the ubolts. so maybe a good way to go for now is find some shorter shocks that fit, re attached the valve, and open up the diff and try and find the guts from a non welded 8.25. I suppose I have no idea if the axles ratios even match from to back. 

 

sorry, this is my first jeep and I have no idea what I am dealing with. I am a subaru guys and traded one of my rigs for this thing to learn about jeeps more!

 

thanks for all the replies!

 

That's a good start.

 

As far as road worthiness is concerned, we should also point out that your front sway bar links are missing which can be a dangerous situation on the street.  Be careful.  You'll need to take some measurements to find a set that work with your lift. 

[motiusclyde]

Just now, DesertRat1991 said:

 

That's a good start.

 

As far as road worthiness is concerned, we should also point out that your front sway bar links are missing which can be a dangerous situation on the street.  Be careful.  You'll need to take some measurements to find a set that work with your lift. 

 

 

thanks yea I just noticed that too, I have no plans on driving it in its current state with the brakes not working at all. I have also been considering moving to a smaller lift. I just identified the front springs as rustys ror 405 which look to be 4.5 xj springs. maybe even go back to SUA in the rear. thanks for the help. 

[Pete M]

the first thing I would do is determine what year the axle is (via a part number or counting the splines on the axle shafts).  if it's an early 27 spline axle, I'd just go find a better axle and invest my money into something that will last.   You're going to need welding done anyways, so I would skip on buying short shocks and just get shock mounts welded to the proper location at the same time as your perches.  

 

what are the overall plans for the truck?  

[motiusclyde]

3 minutes ago, Pete M said:

the first thing I would do is determine what year the axle is (via a part number or counting the splines on the axle shafts).  if it's an early 27 spline axle, I'd just go find a better axle and invest my money into something that will last.   You're going to need welding done anyways, so I would skip on buying short shocks and just get shock mounts welded to the proper location at the same time as your perches.  

 

what are the overall plans for the truck?  

 

 

awesome thanks, I am leaning that way. 

 

as far as plans I posted a bit more about the truck in the build section, but I traded a car I basically had nothing into for this thing last night. my plan is to tone it down from its current hacked "wheeler" state and actually be able to drive it around town and take it camping, overlanding. Would like it to have some road manners. I have only driven it around the block and its pretty scary.  It will not be a hardcore wheeler but I would like to hit some trails since I have never really done that before. Like I said I am a subaru guy, most of which have been low and fast :lol:

 

here are some more pictures of the hack job. 

 

[Pete M]

did the previous owner shorten up the rear of the bed? and then change his mind and draw a new line to fit that cap?  

[Kickin’Chicken]

27 minutes ago, Pete M said:

did the previous owner shorten up the rear of the bed? and then change his mind and draw a new line to fit that cap?  

Looks like he "almost" bob-tailed it. 

[Kickin’Chicken]

I like the front bumper. Looks adequate, stout and improves the approach angle big time. 

[Eagle]

2 hours ago, motiusclyde said:

 

 

thanks yea I just noticed that too, I have no plans on driving it in its current state with the brakes not working at all. I have also been considering moving to a smaller lift. I just identified the front springs as rustys ror 405 which look to be 4.5 xj springs. maybe even go back to SUA in the rear. thanks for the help. 

 

I don't have much to add, except that the reason your rear brakes don't work is that the lever arm for the height-sensing valve (as has already been mentioned) is hanging down instead of horizontal or slightly above horizontal, where it should be. As for the rear axle, if you can find new guts for for the diff you can just replace the differential, but given that the perches are in the wrong locations it might make more sense to just buy a complete rear axle out of a 4.0L XJ automatic, relocate the perches to where they should be, and then install the whole thing. While you're in the differential you could also install a lunchbox locker or a limited slip.

 

If you can live with a limited slip, then you could just buy it and install it in the axle you have. But the spring perches still need to be cut off and relocated.

 

The comment about the missing front sway bar links is VERY important. It is NOT safe to drive any Jeep on the street without the sway bar being connected and functioning.

 

The front track bar is Rusty's. It's a piece of crap. I had one and the tie rod end on the frame end lasted less than a year. A friend in NAXJA-NAC had one that failed catastrophically on a trail -- the threaded bung on the frame end pulled right out of the tube, leaving him with no track bar -- which means no steering.

[motiusclyde]

48 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

I don't have much to add, except that the reason your rear brakes don't work is that the lever arm for the height-sensing valve (as has already been mentioned) is hanging down instead of horizontal or slightly above horizontal, where it should be. As for the rear axle, if you can find new guts for for the diff you can just replace the differential, but given that the perches are in the wrong locations it might make more sense to just buy a complete rear axle out of a 4.0L XJ automatic, relocate the perches to where they should be, and then install the whole thing. While you're in the differential you could also install a lunchbox locker or a limited slip.

 

If you can live with a limited slip, then you could just buy it and install it in the axle you have. But the spring perches still need to be cut off and relocated.

 

The comment about the missing front sway bar links is VERY important. It is NOT safe to drive any Jeep on the street without the sway bar being connected and functioning.

 

The front track bar is Rusty's. It's a piece of crap. I had one and the tie rod end on the frame end lasted less than a year. A friend in NAXJA-NAC had one that failed catastrophically on a trail -- the threaded bung on the frame end pulled right out of the tube, leaving him with no track bar -- which means no steering.

 

 

yea I am realizing the sway bars are very important. like i said I havent driven it farther than a few hundred feet. thanks for the input, guess its time to learn how to weld finally!

 

 

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

did the previous owner shorten up the rear of the bed? and then change his mind and draw a new line to fit that cap?  

 

 

I have no idea what they were trying to do haha. it looks like $#!& honestly. also yea I am posting that canopy to get rid of it

 

[motiusclyde]

although even at this point I am a little apprehensive digging into this thing more. it might just be destined to be only a wheeler. might not be worth it for me to start fixing all this stuff just to make it streetable. I digress. 

[FrankTheDog]

It really doesn’t look all that bad.

Yes, some things are hack but overall it doesn’t look to bad to make it a streetable wheeler. Get a set of TJ flares, stock ones won’t work anymore and stock TJ flares can be had cheap.

Put a set of adjustable control arms up front to position the axle correctly.

Stock 96-01 XJ 8.25’s can be had cheap or get a KJ rear axle or Explorer 8.8 with discs. KJ and Exploder axles can be had with 3.73 or 4.10 gears for better performance, then you would have to find a front or regear the one you have. The 3.55’s will work for now.

There are write ups in tech on this.

Get swaybar links and a quality trackbar.

Clean up the bob on the bed.

Remove or fix height sensing valve for rear brakes, there are several write ups on that too.

Post up pics of the complete truck so we have a better feeling for the overall condition.

[Eagle]

I just noticed that there don't appear to be any shocks in the rear, and it looks like both the upper and lower shock mount studs were cut off.

[motiusclyde]

3 hours ago, FrankTheDog said:

It really doesn’t look all that bad.

Yes, some things are hack but overall it doesn’t look to bad to make it a streetable wheeler. Get a set of TJ flares, stock ones won’t work anymore and stock TJ flares can be had cheap.

Put a set of adjustable control arms up front to position the axle correctly.

Stock 96-01 XJ 8.25’s can be had cheap or get a KJ rear axle or Explorer 8.8 with discs. KJ and Exploder axles can be had with 3.73 or 4.10 gears for better performance, then you would have to find a front or regear the one you have. The 3.55’s will work for now.

There are write ups in tech on this.

Get swaybar links and a quality trackbar.

Clean up the bob on the bed.

Remove or fix height sensing valve for rear brakes, there are several write ups on that too.

Post up pics of the complete truck so we have a better feeling for the overall condition.

 

yea that sounds about right. I think it deserves to be fixed up. sorting the brakes out and "unwelding" the rear are first priority for me. 

 

2 hours ago, Eagle said:

I just noticed that there don't appear to be any shocks in the rear, and it looks like both the upper and lower shock mount studs were cut off.

 

 

yea no shocks in the rear. mounts are still there. 

[Eagle]

7 hours ago, motiusclyde said:

 

yea no shocks in the rear. mounts are still there. 

 

No, I don't think so. The XJ studs are still on the axle, but MJ rear shocks mount to studs on the spring plates, and there are corresponding mounting studs on the inside of the frame rails. I don't see those in your photos -- I think they've been cut off.

 

Here's a photo from another thread that shows the lower mounts pretty well. The uppers are hard to see.

 

 

Does anyone have a photo of the stock shock mounts they can post? (Preferably for a longbed.)

[HOrnbrod]

[Sir Sam]

16 hours ago, motiusclyde said:

although even at this point I am a little apprehensive digging into this thing more. it might just be destined to be only a wheeler. might not be worth it for me to start fixing all this stuff just to make it streetable. I digress. 

 

Honestly its not that big of a deal, you just need to finish the rear axle swap, and install a front sway bar and then it will be safe to drive, sure you could improve some other things along the way, but with those two things taken care of you should be good to go.