Advice on a Welder

[JeeperjohnfromPA]

Ok, I need advice.

I've never welded anything, except a few decades ago in highschool shop class, and that was just a spot welder.

:roll:

I need to weld in some 'patches' to the cab floor, and also I need to weld some heavier pieces to re-inforce the frame.

 

What Type of welder would work best, and how hard is it to use. I've had a couple people tell me to get a MIG welder.

I've heard mention of a TIG welder also, whats the difference between the various types of welding equipement?

 

I realy don't want to spend alot of money on a welder, so I might just rent one when I'm ready.

 

But again I've no experience with welders so I'm asking for advice/opinions.

 

Thanks in advance for your imput,,,,,

[rockhardzj]

OK, you have Stick, MIG, and Tig for the basic welders, and there is also oxy-acetylene welding which is actually brazing, much like soldering.

 

 

I have a Lincoln stick welder from over 40yrs ago, which I hate, and they have earned the name stick for more than the reason they use a welding rod aka "stick". The rod will STICK to the surface, and quite often, its a PITA, but offers pretty strong welding, and with practice, you can make it look good.

There are different rods availible for what you want to weld, and you will go through rods like a fat kid all over an ice cream cone. You also have to set the voltage on the welder. Stick welding, is in my experience the only way to go in sticky situations like throwing some batteries, and jumper cables together and welding an axle tube or engine mount or something out on the trail, as it will penetrate light grease/oil, and will blast through rust.

 

I also have 2 MIG welders, a hobart 120, and a newer 135. The MIG offers you alot of ease of use, where you throw on a ground clamp, set the voltage and wire speed, and pull the trigger and go. It's probably the easiest way to begin welding. You have to adjust the wirespeed to the speed you travel, and it can also take a little time to get good welds going, but generally, not very long. Theres a few options to MIG welders like using solid core wire, with shielding gas, without the gas, or you can use flux core with or without shielding gas.

From my experience, I have gotten the best welds so far using solid w/shileding, and I wouldnt reccommend solid without the gas. It has no protection from the elements, and will rust pretty fast. Once I run out of my solid, I'm going to try flux with shielding, as Ive heard it brings the best welds possible, and offers the most contaminant free welds.

Ther are different thicknesses of wire to use, however, .030, and .035 are the most commonly used, and .030 is good for all around welding.

 

TIG welders are expensive, and are generally the most difficult to use, as you have the TIG torch in one hand, a filler rod in the other, and you have a foot pedal to mess with. I personally suck at it, however, some of my friends could start and go, and have great welds from it. Some people are naturals, some are not. there is also different tungsten tips, in the range mixtures of metal with the tungsten in the tip. If you are good at TIG, it will offer you the best welds, and will offer the most superior strength. It is however much more time consuming, and again, expensive.

 

Hope this helps out.

 

Your best bet will be with a MIG welder for what you want to do. I would personally go for a 220V one though, as the 110V ones can only do so much.

[feerocknok]

Stick is cheap, but, for most people, tricky to get down.

TIG is ridiculously expensive but can produce amazing welds.

MIG is simple and not very expensive compared to TIG. Your floor boards can be your learning experience with MIG and you'll have the basics down by the time you finish.

 

Whatever you do, spend more than you plan on spending. A cheap welder is money wasted. I work for Checker/Schuck's/Kragen and people buy our 110v MIG welders. I want to tell them to not waste their money on our welders, but people only worry about price. It doesn't seem to matter to them that the welder overheats after 3" of weld, and it can't weld anything more than sheetmetal.

[JeeperjohnfromPA]

I see that a decent welder is gonna cost more then the truck is worth.

Being I have no planned use for a welder, other then this truck, perhaps I should just rent a good one for a couple of days?

[88swampedmj]

iam going to harbor freight tools tommorow and picking up a tig welder they have there for $220 ill be using that for my leaf swap and bumpers...rollcage and whatever else needs to be welded

[DirtyComanche]

HF welders :roll:

 

 

 

Whatever you do, buy something DECENT. I have a cheap MIG, but have you ever heard me mention actually using it? Well, I don't. It sits downstairs in our second kitchen (yeah, I've never heard the end of that).

 

The reason? It's freaking useless. It can't weld anything in a single pass, except maybe 30 gauge. The duty cycle at full amperage is 20% (and you need full amperage), and it has a constant hot tip (hate that), and it's PITA to spool.

 

With the money spent on it, I could have saved for a better MIG, or bought the first stick welder I had (Lincoln AC-225-GLM, I think). The first stick I had was lighter duty and AC only, but it still had a 20% duty cycle at 225A. Which is plenty of amperage - enough to blow holes in 3/8".

 

The one I use now (lincoln tombstone, as they're known) has both AC/DC and a higher duty cycle, along with a couple capacitors to make striking an arc easier. I will admit that stick welding can be a PITA. If your rod has absorbed moister it'll make life horrible - but you aren't supposed to use it then anyways. It is MUCH harder to make a good looking weld with stick, vs MIG. But, you CAN'T cheat with it. Ever watch how they MIG weld on extreme 4x4/OCC/west coast choppers/etc? It's totally wrong. They haven't a bloody clue what they're doing, but it LOOKS good - and that's because it's a MIG and you can do that.

 

 

Anyways, if you've only got a small job and can take it to a machine shop, I suggest going that route. If everything is prepped they can zap it all together in very short order and will charge you very little. Or find a friend with a welder to borrow for a while.

 

 

Oh, and one thing about stick... Its easy enoguh to get rods to do different things. I've got 6011, 6013, 7014, 7018, CastARC, and something for stainless. Plus you can get brazing rods and wear-surfacing rods.

[88swampedmj]

I see that a decent welder is gonna cost more then the truck is worth.

Being I have no planned use for a welder, other then this truck, perhaps I should just rent a good one for a couple of days?

 

well a good welder may cost more than your truck, but you can make your truck alot better with it. to me its worth havin a good welder regaurdless of the price of your truck

[JOMJ87]

https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/spider.pl?K2472-1|||341

 

Best welder i have ever used. I love this thing. My Buddy got one for his coming home from the sandbox present to himself and when i got back i have used it several times and it is wonderful for those around the house jeep jobs. My dad has also used his welder and is thinking about getting one. Everything i have heard and seen about this welder has been supurb also. BUT i have a stick and i learned to weld with stick so i have alwasy been partial to them. I really like using them EXCEPT stopping and putting in a new rod every few inches......I say go for the MIG and i Highly sujest the one above. It is going to be my next tool purchase come sept. for my birthday and renlistment to the AF is going to pay for it :brows:

 

Cole

[CEThomas]

Watch e-bay. I got a Clarke 180 220V mig for around $325 shipped in the spring.

[Twisty]

I did my bumper and skid plate on a Lincoln 220 stick welder. Once you get it down, its easy. I've made some welds that were mistaken for MIG welds. It is possible. I'd get stick, just because there aren't really any mechanical parts to break on it. When you go through a stick, you put another one in. You can get 110v stick welders. Maybe one of them would be good for sheet metal?

[Wildman]

I guest you didn't read my reply in your project post :dunno:

 

I don't know anyone that would rent a welder, I know I would not rent my welder out.

 

As stated above, your best bet is to get it prep'ed, take it to a welding / Body shop and have them do it for you. Very little time, and very little cost.

 

If your just doing floor pans, I just use 3/16" pop rivet, and seal with polyurathane (or Por 15)

 

If you doing alot of body work, structural welding, then you justity the investment in a GOOD mig welder, not a Hobo fright unit.

 

Stick welders are not very good with 24 gauge sheet metal, burn right thru, and .023 solid wire w/shielding gas is the best for sheet metal.

 

(Charles - good deal on the Clarke - good machine) :brows:

[fendermb4]

I asked this same question a couple months ago. Here is that thread: http://www.comancheclub.com/forums/view ... ght=welder

 

Based on that and everything I read, I ended up getting a Lincoln 135. So far, I've found it pretty easy to use. After not very long with it, I would feel comfortable doing floorboards, and a lot of other stuff like that.

[JeeperjohnfromPA]

Thanks everyone for the advice,

 

Thanks rockhardzj for explaining the different types.:smart:

 

Swampedmj makes a good point that it can make the truck alot better so thats part of the payback. :typing: I'm not to big on harbor frieght though.

 

I'd love to just take it somewhere and have somebody else weld it. I'm trying to keep the $$ down though. I'm gonna check with a place I know and go to and see what he might be willing to work out.

 

More then one of you has mentioned not wasting money on a cheepie welder and getting something good. POINT WELL NOTED.

 

I did pick up a stick welder for free, from my father-in-law who recently passed away. :cry: He woulda liked this MJ, prolly woulda been a good help with advice and how toos,,,

 

It did have some rods with it. I tried using it, testing on some scrap, but can't seem to get a bead going. Perhaps those rods have been sitting arround to long? It dosen't look like a very good welder, seems sorta cheapie. Most likely wouldn't be strong enough to weld anything thick on the frame, maybe some of the thiner stuff in the cab?

 

I just went out and looked at it.

 

It's a Mity Mite arc welder model # 90701 made in Italy for Schumacher Electric of Chicago Il, (do I smell harbor freight?).

Its a 115v unit, can easily be picked up and carried with one hand.

its rated output is Arc volts 23, Weld Amps 70, Duty Cycle 10%, max OC volts 37.

 

Is it even worth getting a new pack of rods and trying it? :roll:

 

I've got a buddy, whose brother has some welding equipement. He is always fixing things for people and making a few bucks in the process. I'll have to see if he does house calls. (maybe a 12 pack might entice him)? :brows:

[Eagle]

OK, you have Stick, MIG, and Tig for the basic welders, and there is also oxy-acetylene welding which is actually brazing, much like soldering.

...

 

I also have 2 MIG welders, a hobart 120, and a newer 135. The MIG offers you alot of ease of use, where you throw on a ground clamp, set the voltage and wire speed, and pull the trigger and go. It's probably the easiest way to begin welding. You have to adjust the wirespeed to the speed you travel, and it can also take a little time to get good welds going, but generally, not very long. Theres a few options to MIG welders like using solid core wire, with shielding gas, without the gas, or you can use flux core with or without shielding gas.

Rocky's advice is pretty good, but he failed to mention something (and, in fact, I think has it confused). The welder may say "MIG" on the cover, but the "IG" part stands for "Inert Gas." If you aren't using it with a shielding gas, you aren't doing MIG welding, you're doing wire welding. To do wire welding without gas, you really need to use flux-core wire ... and you won't get as good a job as you would using plain wire with gas.

 

The problem is that for doing body work, you need a welder that will turn down to a pretty low power. Flux-core wire doesn't work well for body sheet metal -- this is where a decent MIG welder really shines. The Lincoln 135 is an excellent choice. It's the largest welder you can get that runs on 120 volt power. Anything larger needs a dedicated 240 volt outlet. The 135 will do sheet metal all day, handles moderately heavy stuff in one pass, and for really heavy stuff you just make multiple passes.

 

Every Jeep or home owner should have one.

[tjbliley]

Home Depot rents MIG welders. Flux-core only I think.

[mfpdm]

Home Depot rents MIG welders. Flux-core only I think.

 

Speaking of Home Depot and welders, I was kicking the thought around about getting one of these.

 

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100093231

 

Would this be a good deal and would it be what JeeperJohn is looking for in a basic welder?

 

:cheers:

[JOMJ87]

Thats a buzz box as some will call it. It runs on 110 and uses flux core ONLY wire. They are ok for thin stuff but for jeeps you need something in the 230V range. They don't burn near as hot usally and most will tell you not to waist the money. If you think about it for about 2 hundred more you will have a nice welder that can do Flux core or MIG. I would spend 450 on that just to want bigger later.

 

Cole

[comanche-man22]

i don't know how old this thread is and I'm not sure if you already got a welder or not but...i am 15 and i have been in metal shop class for 3 years and i have used all welders MIG, TIG, ARC, OXY/ACE, you name it i've used it! and MIG is my favorite and the easiest to learn on! i just bought a lincoln MIG welder 3200 the other day for my dad for $449 at home depot and it works great! i can weld Gas shielding or flux core or aluminium. just let me know if you need tips on how to weld you can PM me or comment back.

[JOMJ87]

Are you really 15 :eek: I hope thats a typo but I'm not sure.

 

Cole

[comanche-man22]

yes i am really 15 i will be 16 in august! :D

[JOMJ87]

WOW i wish i could have taken metal classes at that age. They didnt offer that till high school and by then my dad had taught me everything he could about tool and die work and welding. I even welded better then our horrid teacher but i think anyone could he was so bad we wrote a letter to the superintendent to get him removed and it worked.><><>On a second note have you really had alot of luck with the lincoln??? I had read several bad things about them and i had experienced several bad welders including a hobart that was 110. I just never cared for them.

 

Cole

[comanche-man22]

yeah I'm a junior in high school! so thats why i am taking them...lol

but yeah i am having good luck with it so far i made a plant stand and i also welded my shock mount on the rear pass. side and it has been fine so far!!

[rockhardzj]

Rocky's advice is pretty good, but he failed to mention something (and, in fact, I think has it confused). The welder may say "MIG" on the cover, but the "IG" part stands for "Inert Gas." If you aren't using it with a shielding gas, you aren't doing MIG welding, you're doing wire welding. To do wire welding without gas, you really need to use flux-core wire ... and you won't get as good a job as you would using plain wire with gas.

 

The problem is that for doing body work, you need a welder that will turn down to a pretty low power. Flux-core wire doesn't work well for body sheet metal -- this is where a decent MIG welder really shines. The Lincoln 135 is an excellent choice. It's the largest welder you can get that runs on 120 volt power. Anything larger needs a dedicated 240 volt outlet. The 135 will do sheet metal all day, handles moderately heavy stuff in one pass, and for really heavy stuff you just make multiple passes.

 

Every Jeep or home owner should have one.

Yea, Been a while since I first learned all the names, The MIG welder without the IG part is just a "wire welder", nothing special, but not good for anything more than doing small hobbys that require more than soldering, but less than good welds (those expensive RC car shassis, I guess...)

 

I should add in the point that, I paid 300 bucks used for my hobart 135, at the welding store. It even came with a 3yr warranty from the welding shop to cover any parts that decide to poop the bed. I have a good 45+hrs on it. My Hobart 120 cost me shipping from my dad, as he didnt have a use for it anymore. Both are 120V welders, and I will be upgrading eventually, but so far, they have done the job for me, without complaints, or hassles of any sort.

[pingpong]

I personally do lots of welding. I use a Lincoln AC/DC welder. I also have a flux core welder that is 110v and I am here to tell you I don't use it anymore ever.

 

"MIG" welding as it is refered to is the most cost effective welding there is. That being said a good quality welder is going to run between 450 and 600 for a light duty version. That is with a duty cycle between 40-60%. To get a 100% duty cycle (heavy duty) look at 1500 plus.

 

"TIG" welding is a very precise form of welding and in the right hands is a beautiful thing. IT is also mostly used on alloy metal where normal conditons do not apply. Welding chromoly, or stainless. Also it is mostly used on pipe, and thin walled stuff.

 

Go to your local community college or vo-tech school and sign up for a welding class. They will mostly likely teach you SMAW (stick) welding, and if you can do that GMAW (MIG) will come easily

[mfpdm]

i just bought a lincoln MIG welder 3200 the other day for my dad for $449 at home depot and it works great! i can weld Gas shielding or flux core or aluminium. just let me know if you need tips on how to weld you can PM me or comment back.

 

That's the one I posted in the link earlier in this thread. What projects have you done with it?

 

 

Thats a buzz box as some will call it. It runs on 110 and uses flux core ONLY wire.

 

According to the discription and comanche-man22's post it uses both. That's why I was considering it as it does both and is the highest amperage for a 110v system. I would go with a 220V but I like the thought of being able to take it anywhere and plug it in. :brows:

:cheers: