BootsNTrucks Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 So i was at work today and a guy rolled up with a '85 Toyota 4 Runner on 35s that looked MEAN. Anyway it sounded odd and for the life of me I couldn't figure out why, until I realized it sounded very very similar to my VW TDI that is the new DD. Started talking with the guy and it turns out that yes they had swapped a VW TDI in it. Guy didn't know when exactly but it was done awhile ago (inherited the truck from his dad) Anyway it got me thinking. After some investigate it seems that same company that designed the AX-15 (Aisin AI) also designed the trannys for Toyota. They appear to be very similar. Back in the day apparently there was a kit you could buy (I dunno I wasn't even alive) that had all the hardware to mount a VW TDI in a Toyota. Has anyone heard of people doing this or even know if its possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88ComancheMitch Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Anything is possible with enough time, money, and resources. I have looked for viable diesel options since I bought the MJ...so far the only reasonable swap I've seen is a SBC. Everything else seems like it's too expensive for the payoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 HPA makes a kit to drop a TDI in place of the 2.5 in a YJ and XJ. I did the math last year and aiI think I came up with a figure right around 10 grand, give or take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 $10k?!?! :eek:Geezus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnkyboy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 IIRC there is a build thread on NAXJA where a guy put or is putting a TDI in his XJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattwheels Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 the OM617a from a Turbo mercedes is a pretty viable swap I think, and there are even adapter plates out there for the ax15/aw4, little engine can be turned up to 180 hp stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsNTrucks Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 HPA makes a kit to drop a TDI in place of the 2.5 in a YJ and XJ. I did the math last year and aiI think I came up with a figure right around 10 grand, give or take. So how much would it decrease if I already had a old TDI engine/tranny laying around? the OM617a from a Turbo mercedes is a pretty viable swap I think, and there are even adapter plates out there for the ax15/aw4, little engine can be turned up to 180 hp stock Yeah those 1.9L '99-'03ish Jettas can be made to run 14s without too too much work. After a bit more research on TDI club apparently you need a really really old TDI because the new one has so many sensors and safety features. I was reading about a guy that was swapping a '03 engine into his '00 Jetta after his daughter blew the original. He was have issue upon issue with the new safety features that had been added in just 3 years. damn shame. I was thinking that would be awesome because those TDIs are definitely one of the better diesel engines out there (mines pushing 270,000 with no issues) and there are soooo many parts for them. Out of curiosity how do you think an AX-15 would hold up with that extra torque in the low gears? TDI: 100 HP & 177 FT/LBS 4.0: 190 HP & 235 FT/LBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustyballer16 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 $10k?!?! :eek: Geezus! that's about how much I'll have in my Cummins swap, if not more... But it'll be worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattwheels Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ax15 will do just fine up to 300ftlbs, I'm sure even in any gear it will hold up just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88ComancheMitch Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The only reason to swap a diesel in, in my opinion, is for the vanity/self accomplishment reasons. Personally, I'd rather put something easier, and more fun, in with minimal effort. (Read: SBC!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsNTrucks Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 The only reason to swap a diesel in, in my opinion, is for the vanity/self accomplishment reasons. Personally, I'd rather put something easier, and more fun, in with minimal effort. (Read: SBC!) Gas milage? Durability? Power? Ahhhh who am I kidding I just wana do it so I can roll coal outta the Jeep haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 $10k?!?! :eek: Geezus! That's what I said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 HPA makes a kit to drop a TDI in place of the 2.5 in a YJ and XJ. I did the math last year and aiI think I came up with a figure right around 10 grand, give or take. So how much would it decrease if I already had a old TDI engine/tranny laying around?the OM617a from a Turbo mercedes is a pretty viable swap I think, and there are even adapter plates out there for the ax15/aw4, little engine can be turned up to 180 hp stockYeah those 1.9L '99-'03ish Jettas can be made to run 14s without too too much work. After a bit more research on TDI club apparently you need a really really old TDI because the new one has so many sensors and safety features. I was reading about a guy that was swapping a '03 engine into his '00 Jetta after his daughter blew the original. He was have issue upon issue with the new safety features that had been added in just 3 years. damn shame. I was thinking that would be awesome because those TDIs are definitely one of the better diesel engines out there (mines pushing 270,000 with no issues) and there are soooo many parts for them. Out of curiosity how do you think an AX-15 would hold up with that extra torque in the low gears? TDI: 100 HP & 177 FT/LBS 4.0: 190 HP & 235 FT/LBS I don't know how specific the engine is, but I do know that they do need you to get the throttle pedal out of a Passat. Drive by wire and all that... www.cotybuilt.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjy_26 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ok, so they also require an 03-06 TDI engine and harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsNTrucks Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ok, so they also require an 03-06 TDI engine and harness. You'd have to get one out of an old VW bunny pickup. Something old enough that my radio has a more complex computer than the engine does. Speaking of computers.....where is the SOB? My buddies '92 XJ has it mounted right under the hood nice and easy off on the side. I can't find mine anywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 The only reason to swap a diesel in, in my opinion, is for the vanity/self accomplishment reasons.... There ya go The only reason to swap a diesel in, in my opinion, is for the vanity/self accomplishment reasons. Personally, I'd rather put something easier, and more fun, in with minimal effort. (Read: SBC!) Gas milage? Durability? Power? Ahhhh who am I kidding I just wana do it so I can roll coal outta the Jeep haha Gas mileage? Seriously? And how many years do you think it would take you to pay for the swap in fuel savings? Durability? 4.0's routinely break 300,000 miles. Power? Didn't your own statistics show the 4.0 makes more power and, if you only knew it, out performs the TDI at every RPM point? There is no "extra torque in the low gears" to consider. Oh, wait, all diesels have more "low gear ( I think you really mean low RPM though) torque" because everyone just knows that is true.... Pssst...the H.O. 4.0 has more torque at idle than the average TDI does MAX! :doh: The best engine for the MJ is the 4.0. A 1987 4.0 had more horsepower (177) then the truck 350 of the same year. (160). Hell the H.O 4.0 had the same horsepower and much more torque than an '87 BMW M3! And no swap headaches to contend with, either. Pretty much any swap in an MJ that had a 4.0 is for vanity/bragging rights and not real-world reasons. You may argue swapping a 4.0 for the other engines available in the MJ. It is harder in the 2.8 era trucks but even the factory diesel is a large step backwards over the 4.0. The 4.0, especially at the time of its introduction and again at the step-up to the H.O. ( OBD-I) version, was a world-class engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I agree with the end of the last post and would add this: When the 4.0 burst onto the scene, it had a full 180 horsepower in the Wrangler (a German publication listed it as 172 horsepower, and, in the Cherokee, it started out with 177 hp). One of its advantages was being designed for fuel injection: it had no mechanical fuel pump and was intended from the start to be injected, developed with help from Renault’s fuel injection techs (it used the Renault-Bendix, or Renix, system from 1987 to 1990). In 1990, the GM 4.3L V6 only made 160 hp, the Ford 4.9L I6 (used in the F150 and Econoline) only made 145 hp, the Ford 4.0 V6 made 155 hp, the Chrysler 5.2L made 170 hp, the Jeep/AMC 2bbl 360 V8 made 144 hp, and the Nissan 3.0 V6 (used in the Pathfinder) made 153 hp. Jeep upped the ante in 1991, when the Cherokee's version made 190 hp. Here is the full article: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/40.html But to help with you question, read this about the ax15 http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ax15.htm You will see it is related and more importantly shares the bell-housing with the Toyota R154 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_R_transmission As you can see there it was standard equipment behind a Toyota Turbo Diesel…..Maybe that would be the easy path???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnkyboy Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I was thinking that would be awesome because those TDIs are definitely one of the better diesel engines out there (mines pushing 270,000 with no issues) and there are soooo many parts for them. Somehow you have been very lucky, ive seen lots of bad turbos, injectors,flat cams, and damaged lifters in the ALH TDIs. Couldn't begin to count how many I've torn into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsNTrucks Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 I was thinking that would be awesome because those TDIs are definitely one of the better diesel engines out there (mines pushing 270,000 with no issues) and there are soooo many parts for them. Somehow you have been very lucky, ive seen lots of bad turbos, injectors,flat cams, and damaged lifters in the ALH TDIs. Couldn't begin to count how many I've torn into.The only issue we've had was when my mom drove the car full time (they bought it new) she wasn't driving the car hard enough and the turbo sooted up because of the EGR. Stupid smog regulations always screwing $#!& up. That brings up another issue. Anybody know if it's possible to swap a gas truck to a diesel truck? I know physically I'm talking about smog regulations. Obviously the diesel motor is not gunna be able to match the 4.0Ls tolerances.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeeping88 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Mercedes om617 I just put in my '88 manche. Haven't driven yet, need to make driveshafts. Adapter to ax15 from mercedes4x4.com and my own mounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Ok, so they also require an 03-06 TDI engine and harness. You'd have to get one out of an old VW bunny pickup. Something old enough that my radio has a more complex computer than the engine does. Speaking of computers.....where is the SOB? My buddies '92 XJ has it mounted right under the hood nice and easy off on the side. I can't find mine anywhere! Above is bad information. The Rabbit pickup had a 48 hp 1500 cc engine, then a 52 hp 1600 cc engine. You do not want to use that in a Jeep. No torque/no power. You want a TDI engine from a 96 thru 2003 VW. Factory 90 hp and 149 to 157 lb/ft torque. These are transverse mounted in the Golf, Jetta, and Passat. Reason being, they are relatively inexpensive and especially free of smog equipment. 2004 and later engines got much more complicated. Acme Adaptors sells a kit to mount the engine in the Suzuki Samari using either the Suzuki trans or a Toyota Truck transmission. Here is a link for one fellows conversion of a Toyota pickup to a TDI: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=317802 There are literaly dozens of these conversion threads posted on the TDI club. There are also a smaller number of threads about conversions into Jeeps. The HPA kit is very specific and expensive. It uses a later 2004/2005 Pumpe Duce engine. I think you can use the Toyota truck bellhousing on the AX15 Jeep transmission. My particular 96 TDI has been "chipped" to bump the torque up to 225 lb/ft. with no loss in reliability or MPG. I have about 250K on the engine. Also have a spare TDI engine that may, one day end up in my MJ. A couple of TDI club members have 97/97 TDIs with bigger turbos that put out 225 hp and 380+lb/ft of torque (at the front wheels). And still deliver 40+ MPG 225 hp and 380 lb/ft of torque is way more than enough to move your Comanche any place and any time you want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BootsNTrucks Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Ok, so they also require an 03-06 TDI engine and harness.You'd have to get one out of an old VW bunny pickup. Something old enough that my radio has a more complex computer than the engine does. Speaking of computers.....where is the SOB? My buddies '92 XJ has it mounted right under the hood nice and easy off on the side. I can't find mine anywhere! Above is bad information. The Rabbit pickup had a 48 hp 1500 cc engine, then a 52 hp 1600 cc engine. You do not want to use that in a Jeep. No torque/no power.You want a TDI engine from a 96 thru 2003 VW. Factory 90 hp and 149 to 157 lb/ft torque. These are transverse mounted in the Golf, Jetta, and Passat. Reason being, they are relatively inexpensive and especially free of smog equipment. 2004 and later engines got much more complicated. Acme Adaptors sells a kit to mount the engine in the Suzuki Samari using either the Suzuki trans or a Toyota Truck transmission. Here is a link for one fellows conversion of a Toyota pickup to a TDI: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=317802 There are literaly dozens of these conversion threads posted on the TDI club. There are also a smaller number of threads about conversions into Jeeps. The HPA kit is very specific and expensive. It uses a later 2004/2005 Pumpe Duce engine. I think you can use the Toyota truck bellhousing on the AX15 Jeep transmission. My particular 96 TDI has been "chipped" to bump the torque up to 225 lb/ft. with no loss in reliability or MPG. I have about 250K on the engine. Also have a spare TDI engine that may, one day end up in my MJ. A couple of TDI club members have 97/97 TDIs with bigger turbos that put out 225 hp and 380+lb/ft of torque (at the front wheels). And still deliver 40+ MPG 225 hp and 380 lb/ft of torque is way more than enough to move your Comanche any place and any time you want to go. Talk about gitty up and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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