A Thought On V8S

[jpnjim]

 

 

Isn't the 4.0L in Comanches the same block as in Wranglers? I'm pretty sure the 4.2L 258 CID is the AMC pattern, not the 4.0L. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

All 72+ AMC & Jeep L6's use the AMC V8 bolt pattern.

When the 4.0L came out, they added 2 bolts from the engine side, but kept the same bellhousing pattern.

 

I swapped a trans from a 258 to a 4.0L,

& even bolted a Peugeot 10/5 to a 401 once for laffs :D

so they all match for sure

[reece146]

I'm currently debating what to put in my MJ:

 

GM LS4 and Isuzu 60° bellhousing mated to a AW4

 

Or

 

Isuzu 4BD diesel mated to some undetermined transmission (Aisin A440?)

[ftpiercecracker1]

Wow, this thing absolutely exploded. :eek:

 

I am kicking this idea around because my MJ has been stripped down to brass tacks and has no engine to replace the 4.0 that was pulled. I can, at my express PnS, get any year, make, modle (engine/trans/t-case/wiring harness/computer) combo for less than $450. I firgured hey, i've got all the time in the world and i have a little less than a grand to buy myself a "new" powertrain.

 

http://www.expresspullnsave.com/Inventory.aspx This is a link to their site, check out their inventory see what they have and then look at their price list.

 

 

I definatly want to go with injection for both mpg and power reasons. From what everybody has said i think the best options are either the dodge or jeep V8s.

[gogmorgo]

They've got an '89 MJ in row 74...

Unless I'm doing it wrong, you've got to search for specifics, and they don't list anything more than year make model and location... Makes it a little hard to look through for suggestions. There's bunches of Dodge trucks and ZJ's, mostly from the 90's.

[shelbyluvv]

I got my 94 ZJ donor off Craigslist for $400. I would keep an eye out there first.

[ftpiercecracker1]

They've got an '89 MJ in row 74...

Unless I'm doing it wrong, you've got to search for specifics, and they don't list anything more than year make model and location... Makes it a little hard to look through for suggestions. There's bunches of Dodge trucks and ZJ's, mostly from the 90's.

 

 

Ya, i know what you mean, but it does give you an idea of what they have and Most dodge trucks are either going to have the 318 or the 360 and ZJs almost all have V8s, save 93.

 

or is it the WJs? :hmm:

 

but you can see they have quite the inventory, and from that someone could say well, go and look at the black year dodges for blank engine and so on with the jeeps.

[autoboy454]

If you want to go the Mopar efi v8 route, avoid using a ZJ as a donor. They have all sorts of wacky factory alarm systems that didn't work/disable things right out of the box... Look for one out of a ram/dakota because the harness should be easier to graft to the existing MJ stuff

[89Patches]

3UR-FE, now that would be sweet in an MJ (if it could fit, lol)

 

Any Gm motor swap would be best, just because of the aftermarket support....

[shelbyluvv]

I chopped all the BCM wiring out of the ZJ harness. I have not had any SKIM issues to date. Normally they will only run for three seconds and shut off. You can do this a few times and then they will not restart. I have had none of those issues. If you do have a SKIM donor a Dakota PCM can get around this. The year of your chryco donor matters as well. 93-95 will be OBD-I and 96+ will be OBD-II. If you go OBD-II a 97+ conversion is in your near future. If you stay OBD-I a HO conversion is needed as well. Pick a direction and run with it.

[Garvin]

If anyone decides to go the Ford 302 route, look into the fox body Mustang wiring harness. It is pretty much a stand alone unit. The same goes with the Chevy 305/350 TPI wiring setup. I grafted in like 5 wires and ran maybe another 5 and everything was wired in (mainly only had to run them because I started out with a factory carb'd '86).

 

If you do go the '97+ swap route, get a donor from the same generation and the wiring is a sinch. Most of the wires (if not all) are the same colors.

[mnkyboy]

The talk of mixing brands is kind of interesting.

 

The MJ was offered with a Chevy engine but never had any Dodge engine.

So wouldnt a Chevy engine be less cross contamination then a Dodge engine?

 

 

[gogmorgo]

The Chevy engine was done under AMC (who pulled quite a few parts out of GM's bin) but then it got axed when Chrysler bought out AMC. Dodge has been under Chrysler since 1928, so putting a Dodge engine into a Jeep is a bit like an adopted younger brother getting hand me downs to, instead of getting them from a family friend, like putting in a Chevy engine engine would be. Chrysler also started putting Magnum V8's into Jeep's, so there's argument for that not being cross-contamination there, too.

Either way, it's a bit of a stretch to say it's not cross-contamination in either case. I can see being purist and wanting to only go with what's original, but once you're swapping in something that didn't come with it originally, well, how pure can you make it be after that?

[ftpiercecracker1]

Did cherokee's ever come with a V8?? Because if they did, a V8 swap would be as easy as doing a 97+ swap. But something tells me i'm wrong.

 

 

 

If you want to go the Mopar efi v8 route, avoid using a ZJ as a donor. They have all sorts of wacky factory alarm systems that didn't work/disable things right out of the box... Look for one out of a ram/dakota because the harness should be easier to graft to the existing MJ stuff

 

avoid ZJ, check, all years? 93-98

 

Ram/dakota? 4.7? Years?

 

 

On a side note, transmission and t-case. Dodge use the 231D, and would it be best to get a Engine/tranny combo? or use an adapter and keep my transmission and t-case?

[Biotex]

All 72+ AMC & Jeep L6's use the AMC V8 bolt pattern.

When the 4.0L came out, they added 2 bolts from the engine side, but kept the same bellhousing pattern.

 

I swapped a trans from a 258 to a 4.0L,

& even bolted a Peugeot 10/5 to a 401 once for laffs :D

so they all match for sure

 

WOW! This new info just blows me away. All these years I was under the impression the 4.2L and the 4.0 had different bolt patterns. I can't believe I didn't check it out for myself before now. This opens up a whole new realm for me since I have a bunch of spare parts that now could possibly be made to work in my MJ.

[shelbyluvv]

The XJ never came with a V8. Do not count the ZJ out as a donor. I did the swap using a ZJ donor. A 4.7 might work but it is stupid wide. It might not even fit in the engine bay. For the transmission, I am using a 46RH out of the ZJ. It is basically a 727 with an electronic over drive

 

But, don't listen to me. I only "actually" did a Magnum V8 swap.

[mnkyboy]

The Chevy engine was done under AMC (who pulled quite a few parts out of GM's bin) but then it got axed when Chrysler bought out AMC. Dodge has been under Chrysler since 1928, so putting a Dodge engine into a Jeep is a bit like an adopted younger brother getting hand me downs to, instead of getting them from a family friend, like putting in a Chevy engine engine would be. Chrysler also started putting Magnum V8's into Jeep's, so there's argument for that not being cross-contamination there, too.

Either way, it's a bit of a stretch to say it's not cross-contamination in either case. I can see being purist and wanting to only go with what's original, but once you're swapping in something that didn't come with it originally, well, how pure can you make it be after that?

 

Chysler changed very little when they first aquired AMC, the trucks didnt change much and still retained most of the GM sourced parts.

The GM bellhousing lasted all the way to the end of the XJ.

[jpnjim]

 

 

Chysler changed very little when they first aquired AMC, the trucks didnt change much and still retained most of the GM sourced parts.

The GM bellhousing lasted all the way to the end of the XJ.

 

GM pattern bellhousings even made the leap to the Dakota line.

4 cyl Dakotas got AMC 2.5L's, which all use the GM bellhousing.

 

Dakotas & Durangos also used GM Saginaw steering boxes till they switched to rack & pinion (in 2000?)

 

^^^Jeep engineering department were basically handed the keys to the Dodge Truck division.

Proof?

Dodge LA small block V8's were AMC-erized into the Magnum engines.

They got the MPI system that was on the back burner for AMC V8's

even mechanical engine parts were changed,

dropping the LA's rocker shafts for rocker pedestals that were actual AMC parts.

 

The full size Dodge Pickups got the Jeep ft suspension in big boy size,

this was probably also a back burner FSJ update that just never got off the ground.

[ftpiercecracker1]

The XJ never came with a V8. Do not count the ZJ out as a donor. I did the swap using a ZJ donor. A 4.7 might work but it is stupid wide. It might not even fit in the engine bay. For the transmission, I am using a 46RH out of the ZJ. It is basically a 727 with an electronic over drive

 

But, don't listen to me. I only "actually" did a Magnum V8 swap.

 

alright alright, don't get you panties in a bunch. I went over your's and Terrawombats build threads, quite impressive i must say. It seems that the number one problem with doing a swap is the harnesses, hours and hours of reading, cutting, and splicing. I would like to think that i am reasonably good with wiring, so with enough time and FSMs i could probably do it. But, in one part of terrawombat's build he mentions having a rust free base. My truck isnt as bad as i have seen, but once i read that, it made me remeber just how bad mine really is. I have by no means given up on the idea of a V8, and only recently had to pull the plug on a stroker engine, very sad day. I think for right now, a simple old faithful 4.0 will have to suffice. Either way it is nice to learn more about you guys that have done EFI V8 swaps.

[tubpilot]

You can get a junkyard 4.0 for next to nothing and a 258 for nothing, combined you can make a killer 4.6l I6 and everything will bolt up, tranny, electronics, belts, hoses, motor mounts, radiator etc.

I know it will be a bit more, but in the long run it'll get done sooner and all the little things add up on the V8 conversions. I have a TPI SBC in my CJ7, and it was cheaper to build a Chevy V8 than an AMC I6, but after all was done the I6 would have been the same money and a very cool engine with plenty of jam. A friend did a 4.6l I6 in a Grand Cherokee and it had a bit more than stock 5.2 Grands did, apples to apples comparison.

[ftpiercecracker1]

You can get a junkyard 4.0 for next to nothing and a 258 for nothing, combined you can make a killer 4.6l I6 and everything will bolt up, tranny, electronics, belts, hoses, motor mounts, radiator etc.

I know it will be a bit more, but in the long run it'll get done sooner and all the little things add up on the V8 conversions. I have a TPI SBC in my CJ7, and it was cheaper to build a Chevy V8 than an AMC I6, but after all was done the I6 would have been the same money and a very cool engine with plenty of jam. A friend did a 4.6l I6 in a Grand Cherokee and it had a bit more than stock 5.2 Grands did, apples to apples comparison.

 

 

This, while very nice in theory is NOT as easy in real life, at least if you want a long lived, reliable motor. I have, right now, as i speak, every single part needed to make a seriously badazz stroker in the loft of my barn. Even with $2000 to throw at it and all the parts, i could'nt afford to build it. I really REALLY wanted to do a stroker, but the cost of the machine work is simply to much and with no job and no income i don't have many options.

 

 

I will probably snag a cheap 4.0 out of the junkyard for the time being just the truck can move under its own power once again. I contacted the place i will get the engine from and they said there is a 30 day garuntte, exchange or store credit. I also asked about the state of the engines when they buy the car/trucks, they said if its has "good engine" written on the windshield, the motor was in good running condition when bought. The only thing they do after purchase is to drain the fluids, and put it in the yard.

[jimoshel]

Wanting to be different I dropped a V 12 engine from a 1931 Duesenberg into my Jeep. I regretted that decision the first time I went to buy parts for it. :yes:

[Biotex]

Here is a 4.3L TBI Chevy engine I put into my 52 Willys truck two years ago. I should have kept it all original. IMO I ruined a good build. I kept thinking I need to be able to keep up with the speed limit (85 mph). WRONG! I learned a lesson on that build.

[jimoshel]

Sure looks nice. Good work.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Here is a 4.3L Chevy engine I put into my 52 Wyllis truck two years ago. I should have kept it all original. IMO I ruined a good build. I kept thinking I need to be able to keep up with the speed limit (85 mph). WRONG! I learned a lesson on that build.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks sweet, what happened to cause you to think it such a terrible idea??

[jimoshel]

I have probably done 'over 20' V8 swaps into Jeeps. No MJ or XJ. Just CJ, and FSJ

I used 1 Buick 350, 2 chevy 350 and one Chevy 327. I used SB Fords on all the others. And I'm not a Ford guy. My reasoning being the 150-200 lb weight difference. And the dizzy placement.