Oil change

[jimoshel]

I'm sure that you all have had, as I have, that to change the oil properly the engine must be warm. THis is so all the impurities are drained out with the oil. My question is why? It is my belief that when ever the engine is shut down all the oil and impurities drain to the bottom of the engine and into the oil pan. Say you shut it down of an evening when getting home and go out the next morn to change oil, and filter. So what do the impurities do during the night. Crawl back up into the engine? Now it's nice and cold and you can remove the drain plug without hot oil running down your arm and neck. Cold oil feels much better. Now somebody is going to point out the crud in the bottom of the pan. Perfectionist. If it bothers you so much, drop the pan and clean it. Just rambling. :D :dunno: :rant:

[Dadinator]

I think it is because if it sits there too long, then they settle at the bottom of the pan and don't drain out. If the engine has been running, it mixes them in the oil a bit better. Just my guess. :dunno:

[Vintage]

I always assumed you got the oil warm so it flowed more freely, and were able to get most of the old oil to drain easier. I've never changed oil while it was still hot, but I've always done it warm.

[86customanche]

I always assumed you got the oil warm so it flowed more freely, and were able to get most of the old oil to drain easier. I've never changed oil while it was still hot, but I've always done it warm.

Thats what I always figured as well. Old dirty oil doesnt seem to flow very well when it's cold. I'll usually drive it to the chaning location, on the ramps, and that'll make the oil warm enough to drain easily without making it too hot.

[87Warrior]

I usually don't have the supplies on hand to do an oil change. But when I want to do an oil change, I want it done RIGHT NOW!!! If I am getting that excited about an oil change, it is probably because I like the vehicle and enjoy driving it. So I drive said vehicle 30 miles round trip to get the oil and filter. When I get home the oil is hotter than all get out, but I get the job done...with tingling arms and all. :doh:

[AMCJeepMJ]

Seen the oil prices at auto parts stores lately [$6/qt]? Its cheaper [and faster] to go to an oil change place to get it done, even if you bring your own filter.

[Automan2164]

Seen the oil prices at auto parts stores lately [$6/qt]? Its cheaper [and faster] to go to an oil change place to get it done, even if you bring your own filter.

 

And get recycled oil? Nah, I'll do it myself.

 

Rob

[89eliminator]

i just got a 5+ quart jug of oil and a filter for $18 from Advance Auto

[500 MJ]

It's not hard to change the oil on a HOT engine and not get any on you at all. Back the plug out until its off of the threads and a few drips are coming out, then in one motion pull your wrench and the plug away and watch it flow.

 

I usually don't try to change it hot but I do think it is important to get the oil hot and well mixed before the change. I try to drive 15-20 miles before and then bring it home and right onto the ramps it goes. Wait 15-30 minutes and then pull the plug. Part of the reason for this is that I hate having a hot exhaust pipe right next to my arms...

 

Everyone I respect has told me to change oil when its warm or hot. I value their lifelong experience in the matter and will continue to do so when the oil is warm... I still do respect you Jim :chillin:

 

As for oil change places, I can ramble for a LONG time on that... I don't care how much it costs, I'm still doing it myself.

[johnnyc]

i just got a 5+ quart jug of oil and a filter for $18 from Advance Auto

 

Plus the cost of the sixth quart. :D

[jimoshel]

For anyone wondering, I have never nor will I ever change oil while it's cold unless there's a valid reason. Only brought the subject up for discussion. :wavey:

[johnr]

since all of you are on the subject.

when i adopted my MJ at 75000 it was pretty obvious that the previous owners did little or know PM on the truck. after 23 years it still had the original hoses and most likely the same belt. looking in through the oil filler cap what i could see did not boad well eather. the first oil change the crap that came out was pretty bad. when i refilled it i used a qt of marval mystery oil. i ran that for about 3 weeks. i changed the oill again and this time there was a steady stream of thick black sludge coming out, not all but more than anyone should expect. recharged again and went about 3 months just around the town.

the clutch went out so i took the opertunity to also change out the rear main seal and oil pan gasket. when i took the pan off i swear there was two hand fulls of carbon/crap that was still in the pan. including dime size chunks. and both times i changed the oil before it was on ramps. the bottom of the engin and everywhere i could see was sparkiling clean. just sayin, i had never used marval oil before the guy at the parts store said something. now i put a qt in about a week or so before i plan on changing it. oh and its usualy warm to hot. i tie a rag around my wrist so it don't run down my elbow

[mvusse]

I used Mobil 1 high mileage full synthetic. It is afaik the only readily available oil that is still rated SL. I will never run SM or SN oil in 25 year old vehicles. Not too expensive. Wally World has the 5+ quart jugs for $27 or so, Autozone will usually match that price. After the first handful of oil changes the oil comes out carrying noticeably less sludge than when I first got my majorly neglected truck.

[johnr]

American

Petroleum

Institute Motor Oil Guide

Which oil is right for you?

 

The current and previous API Service Categories are listed below. Vehicle owners should refer to their owner's manuals before consulting these charts. Oils may have more than one performance level.

 

For automotive gasoline engines, the latest engine oil service category includes the performance properties of each earlier category. If an automotive owner's manual calls for an API SJ or SL oil, an API SM oil will provide full protection. For diesel engines, the latest category usually - but not always - includes the performance properties of an earlier category.

 

 

Gasoline Engines

Category Status Service

SM Current For all automotive engines presently in use. Introduced November 30, 2004. SM oils are designed to provide improved oxidation resistence, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving.

SL Current For 2004 and older automotive engines.

SJ Current For 2001 and older automotive engines.

SH Obsolete For 1996 and older engines. Valid when preceded by current C categories.

SG Obsolete For 1993 and older engines.

SF Obsolete For 1988 and older engines.

SE Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1979.

SD Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1971. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

SC Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1967. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

SB Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1963. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

SA Obsolete CAUTION - Not suitable for use in gasoline-powered automobile engines build after 1930. Use in more modern engines may cause unsatisfactory performance or equipment harm.

Note: API intentionally omitted SI and SK from the sequence of categories. For more information about API's Engine Oil Program, visit our web site at http://www.api.org/eolcs.

 

Diesel Engines

Category Status Service

CI-4 Current Introduced September 5, 2002. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 2004 exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002. CI-4 oils are formulated to sustain engine durability where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and are intended for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight. Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, CG-4, and CH-4 oils.

CH-4 Current Introduced in 1998. For high-speed, four-stroke engines designed to meet 1998 exhaust emission standards. CH-4 oils are specifically compounded for use with diesel fuels ranging in sulfur content up to 0.5% weight. Can be used in place of CD, CE, CF-4, and CG-4 oils.

CG-4 Current Introduced in 1995. For severe duty, high speed, four-stroke engines using fuel with less than 0.5% weight sulfur. CG-4 oils are required for engines meeting 1994 emission standards. Can be used in place of CD, CE, and CF-4 oils.

CF-4 Current Introduced in 1990. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be used in place of CD and CE oils.

CF-2 Current Introduced in 1994. For severe duty, two-stroke cycle engines. Can be used in place of CD-II oils.

CF Current Introduced in 1994. For off-road, indirect injected and other diesel engines including those using fuel with over 0.5% weight sulfur. Can be used in place of CD oils.

CE Obsolete Introduced in 1987. For high-speed, four-stroke, naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines. Can be used in place of CC and CD oils.

CD-II Obsolete Introduced in 1987. For two-stroke-cycle engines.

CD Obsolete Introduced in 1955. For certain naturally aspirated and turbocharged engines.

CC Obsolete For engines introduced in 1961.

CB Obsolete For moderate duty engines from 1949 to 1960.

CA Obsolete For light duty engines (1940's and 1950's).

Copyright 2004 - American Petroleum Institute. All rights reserved. API, the API logo, the API Service Symbol (Donut), the API Service Symbol with CI-4 PLUS logo and the API Certification Mark (Starburst) are either trademarks or registered trademarks of the American Petroleum Institute in the United States and / or other countries. Printed in U.S.A.

[mountainman]

I always do it when its hot also because it flows more freely.

But i never get a drop on me.

 

You use the drain pans that are enclosed.. so they just have a little hole in the middle. You then wear latex gloves... and get the drain plug right to the last thread. Then spin it off and let it fall into the pan. It can't go inside cause the drain hole is too small.

I then grab it when the draining event is done, give it a spray of berrymans so its nice and clean and put it back.

ZERO issues.

And the other trick is to put a huge old sweater or Tshirt under the oil filter so that none ever gets on your frame.

Been doing that for years before i ever got a manch because all vws have the oil filter in a LAME spot right above a frame rail. So being shop foreman at a vw dealer, you learn all the factory tricks and have to pass em on to the newb techs. ;)

 

:wrench:

[mvusse]

John, no matter what they say, they LIE.

 

SN has NO ZDDP in it, SM has very little. Older engined need it. Therefore SM and SN cannot fully replace SL. There is a reason all motorcycle engine oils (mostly 10W40, though) are SG or SJ. Because running SM or SN in a motorcycle engine running 12,000 rpm the engine will self destruct. Despite what they say, the new oil specification is not a good substitute for the older oils our engines were designed for.

[johnr]

so what is ZDDP anyhow and what will happen with out it?. i went out to the walmart today looking for oil for my daughters car she has a 99 vw jetta and i looked at all the lables its true mobil 1 is the only oil that had that rating on it. her engin also needs it

[mvusse]

Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates.

 

From wikipedia:

The main use of ZDDP is in anti-wear additives to lubricants such as greases, gear oils, and motor oils, which often contain less than 1% of this additive. It has been reported that zinc and phosphorus emissions may damage catalytic converters and standard formulations of lubricating oils for gasoline engines now have reduced amounts of the additive, though diesel engine oils remain at higher levels.[3] Crankcase oils with reduced ZDDP have been cited as causing damage to, or failure of, classic/collector car flat tappet camshafts and lifters which undergo very high boundary layer pressures and/or shear forces at their contact faces, and in other regions such as big-end/main bearings, and piston rings and pins. Roller camshafts are more commonly used to reduce camshaft lobe friction in modern engines. There are additives, such as STP® Oil Treatment, and some racing oils such as Valvoline VR-1,[4] are available in the retail market with the necessary amount of ZDDP for engines using increased valve spring pressures. See "external links" in this article. The same ZDDP compounds serve also as corrosion inhibitors and antioxidants.

[89eliminator]

i just got a 5+ quart jug of oil and a filter for $18 from Advance Auto

 

Plus the cost of the sixth quart. :D

 

it was for my Civic, so no.

[xjrev10]

 

And get recycled oil? Nah, I'll do it myself.

 

Rob

 

Don't know about that....

 

I change oil on all my jeeps. Her Libby and my Cummins go in for oil changes. Valvoline synthetic for both. Libby is 40 bucks, truck is just over 100.

 

Why? Cuz these newer vehicles are a PITA. (don't know about the Libby...never cared cuz it's not a real jeep and not mine...) It's fun watching them trying to replace my oil filter on the truck. Dodge hid it behind the egr cooler.

 

I always bring my own WIX or Mopar filters and watch the guys like a hawk.

[jimoshel]

I have always changed my own oil, filters and greased it. Many years back I was in a hurry for some reason and took my J10 to Grease Monkey for a oil change and lube. When I got it home I crawled under and took a look. Not one grease fitting had been touched. When I was through with the manager he was probably wishing he had never seen or heard of me or my Jeep. Needless to say that was the last time I left any servicing to anybody but me.