Why won't it TURN! (Found the problem FOR REAL THIS TIME)

[jtdesigns]

I also have a hard time believing this motor has set for ten years.. Maybe a few years 2 or 3 at the most but not ten.. I think the PO might have told a fib... Just said ten years because it was locked-up, or something...

[mfpdm]

I don't like the looks of that lower main bearing in the pic. Not the white stuff. There is damage on the edge where the lock is. What is that from?

 

The bearings are crimp into the locks. Uppers and lowers are like this. The surface is smooth though.

 

looks like that main cap was on backwards which is why its only worn on one side. the mains are line bored with the caps on and if you turn one backwards you will get wear on one side like that. definitely change the main bearings before putting it back together. in the pic it looks like the arrow on the center main caps are all pointing towards the rear and they should be pointing forward

 

In the pic the rear is on the left. All the points above the numbers are pointing right. Or am I looking at the wrong thing here? Far as the uneven wear, I believe that is just uneven application of the assemble lube.

 

I also have a hard time believing this motor has set for ten years.. Maybe a few years 2 or 3 at the most but not ten.. I think the PO might have told a fib... Just said ten years because it was locked-up, or something...

 

It was garage kept the whole time. I have all the reciepts from NAPA from when it was rebuilt including machine work and parts.

 

So...Plans are to pull the crank, clean the bearings, replace the front and rear seals(I doubt I could re-use the old "new" ones, and re-assemble with new assemble lube. Will not pull the cam and will not pull the pistons. The cylinder walls show no signs of anything that would lead me to believe the rings need replaced. Any thoughts or suggestions on the plan are welcome.

I did notice that all the bolts have locktight on them which I thought bolts that are torqued shouldn't have, or am I misstaken.

 

:cheers:

[aemsee]

I saw that as well. There should be no need to lock tight them.

[HellCreek]

I saw that as well. There should be no need to lock tight them.

 

:agree:

 

When you reassemble the engine, all rod cap nuts, main bearing bolts and head bolts should have oil on the threads - not Loctite. This is done so that you get a smooth and accurate torque on those fasteners with no binding.

 

As for the bearings, it looks like there was little or no assembly lube applied before assembly. Dry bearings make for a tight engine and speedy bearing wear. When you reassemble, make sure that you lube the bearings before you lay the crank in the block and the rod bearings and caps as well with either the mix that Eagle suggested or a commercial assembly lube. While you have the crankshaft out it would be wise to pull the camshaft and lube those bearings too. You will already have the timing chain off to remove the crankshaft, and the cam shaft just slides out the front of the block. Also, when you have the engine installed in your truck, before you attempt to crank it, and before you install the distributor, prime the entire engine with oil using a long screwdriver with the handle broken off and attached to an electric drill.

[FxRacing282]

i would loc-tite them. they are gonna maybe mess up the reading by 1 degree +/-. when its that small and you wanna be that accurate you have the get an expensive torque wrench.

[mfpdm]

Ok, so looking at the different opinions on loctite, and reading the fsm which doesn't really say, does anyone have the 4.0 shop overhaul manual that they could look at to see what it has to say about loctite. I've read a few other forums that some say yes and some say no. What's the real story. :dunno:

[JeepcoMJ]

I saw that as well. There should be no need to lock tight them.

 

:agree:

 

When you reassemble the engine, all rod cap nuts, main bearing bolts and head bolts should have oil on the threads - not Loctite. This is done so that you get a smooth and accurate torque on those fasteners with no binding.

 

As for the bearings, it looks like there was little or no assembly lube applied before assembly. Dry bearings make for a tight engine and speedy bearing wear. When you reassemble, make sure that you lube the bearings before you lay the crank in the block and the rod bearings and caps as well with either the mix that Eagle suggested or a commercial assembly lube. While you have the crankshaft out it would be wise to pull the camshaft and lube those bearings too. You will already have the timing chain off to remove the crankshaft, and the cam shaft just slides out the front of the block. Also, when you have the engine installed in your truck, before you attempt to crank it, and before you install the distributor, prime the entire engine with oil using a long screwdriver with the handle broken off and attached to an electric drill.

 

to that in bold:

yup, BUT remember that this means a light film of oil. DO NOT pour oil into the bolt locations on the block. matter of fact, anywhere a bolt goes into a hole, blow out with air and brake clean...if it has any liquid in it, the liquid with the bolt will have a hydraulic effect, meaning that torque readings will in no way be accurate nor acceptable.

 

to that underlined:

Yes! great Idea :clapping: :cheers: :bowdown:

this is something I have done on all motors I'm building (provided they have a distributor)...it's a great way to that first AWESOME start on the motor. just insert the flathead screwdriver (with broken off handle) into the keyway on the oil pump through the distributor hole, fill the engine with a few quarts of oil, and spin it around according to distributor rotation (clockwise I believe, but double check to be sure).

 

when done, put the motor to TDC at piston number one, and adjust the key and the distributor accordingly. there is a 50/50 chance of getting the dizzy set right.

 

the last piece of advice I have regarding pre-lube, is to do it while the valve cover is off. this way you can check to be sure that oil is coming through all of your lifters properly :thumbsup: :banana:

[pingpong]

When prelubing you can get lil oil deflectors to go on top of the rockers so oil doesnt go anywhere. Pre lubing with the dizzy is the only way if you ask me. Some ppl even get an old one and set it up so they can hook a drill to it.. and spin it that way

[summerinmaine]

i would loc-tite them. they are gonna maybe mess up the reading by 1 degree +/-. when its that small and you wanna be that accurate you have the get an expensive torque wrench.

 

 

Degree? Don't you mean Foot Pound (or Newton Meter :D)?

[carnuck]

With that weird wear, is there any others like it? If so, the crank may have been warped before being installed.

[FxRacing282]

i would loc-tite them. they are gonna maybe mess up the reading by 1 degree +/-. when its that small and you wanna be that accurate you have the get an expensive torque wrench.

 

 

Degree? Don't you mean Foot Pound (or Newton Meter :D)?

yeah yeah yeah you know what i meant. early mornings for school and longs days at work. about 13 hours actually... only to come home to more work having to be done on my car/truck.

[HOrnbrod]

yeah yeah yeah you know what i meant. early mornings for school and longs days at work. about 13 hours actually... only to come home to more work having to be done on my car/truck.

 

Isn't there another forum you can haunt instead of replying to every single topic here? And possibly think a little bit before you do respond? And try spell checker too. :D I think you should go work on your Clamero.........

[FxRacing282]

yeah yeah yeah you know what i meant. early mornings for school and longs days at work. about 13 hours actually... only to come home to more work having to be done on my car/truck.

 

Isn't there another forum you can haunt instead of replying to every single topic here? And possibly think a little bit before you do respond? And try spell checker too. :D I think you should go work on your Clamero.........

you know i was starting to like you but now i see what type of a person you are.

[HOrnbrod]

you know i was starting to like you but now i see what type of a person you are.

 

Look, you are probably a nice kid, work hard, and try to do your best. And I think you do. Just slow down a bit, and think out your responses before typing them out, read them over, then hit the olde submit button. You do occasionally post some great stuff, so stick to the topics you know you can contribute to and perhaps help someone, instead of just blasting out responses that mean nothing ar are just plain wrong. Rant over. :cheers:

 

Besides, you're from NH, God's country, Live Free or Die! (I'm from VT originally :D )

[Wildman]

yeah yeah yeah you know what i meant. early mornings for school and longs days at work. about 13 hours actually... only to come home to more work having to be done on my car/truck.

 

Isn't there another forum you can haunt instead of replying to every single topic here? And possibly think a little bit before you do respond? And try spell checker too. :D I think you should go work on your Clamero.........

you know i was starting to like you but now i see what type of a person you are.

 

 

:no:

 

I'll have to back Mr. Hornbrod here..........not just in your case, but in others, you do add some important info here, and in the subjects your experienced in, same as what I contribute here, I only respond to the subjects that I have knowledge and experiences in, and If I'm wrong........Eagle will call me out. You'll never see me respond to a "lift" question, cause I don't know anything about lifts. It kind of keeps the unnecessary chatter down :D

 

So........when you guys get done in the 'time out' room, I hope other's will use the "Preview" button first before they hit the "Submit" botton :yes:

[JeepcoMJ]

eesh. :hijack: :huh???:

[Jacobs]

No Loctite- head bolts, rod bolts, main bolts, lugnuts

 

Loctite- caliper bracket bolts, camshaft sprocket bolt

 

Just a few examples. Loctite does not belong on main, rod, or head bolts, period.

[HOrnbrod]

eesh. :hijack: :huh???:

 

True Pat, a bit of a hijack, but you missed the bigger point mate. Besides, I hijacked this thread first, not the Wildman. Think about it. :D

[JeepcoMJ]

eesh. :hijack: :huh???:

 

True Pat, a bit of a hijack, but you missed the bigger point mate. Besides, I hijacked this thread first, not the Wildman. Think about it. :D

 

I didn't miss it;

 

the point is that you shouldn't post unless you've got something worthwile to post.

 

I've learned this (with guidance from members here).

[HOrnbrod]

:thumbsup:

[HellCreek]

Loctite does not belong on main, rod, or head bolts, period.

 

:agree: That is correct according to the FSM

 

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[mfpdm]

This bargain engine is going to be the death of me. :wall:

 

Well, I pulled it apart, clean all the bearings, coated them with assembly lube, put it all back together, and it was still hard to turn. After a few choice words and scratching my head I noticed something odd. The number on the rear bearing cap was the opposite of all the other numbers. Since it only goes on one way....

 

THE BEARING CAPS ARE ON BACKWARDS. :fs1: :headpop: :wall: :grrrr:

 

So much for trusting a professionally built engine to be right. If I would have listen to

looks like that main cap was on backwards which is why its only worn on one side. the mains are line bored with the caps on and if you turn one backwards you will get wear on one side like that. definitely change the main bearings before putting it back together. in the pic it looks like the arrow on the center main caps are all pointing towards the rear and they should be pointing forward

I might have caught this but I was being hardheaded in the fact that a professional put it together. The arrows are just triangles and will point towards the back vice the front. Found an article on another forum that confirms this plus if in doubt, the bearing locks will be on the same side for the block and the cap. Also the white stuff on them is how those bearings came. I guess it's a type of assembly coating to prevent metal to metal contact until the oil gets flowing during first start up.

 

So, should I replace the bearings at this point? The crank has maybe been turned at the most maybe 50 to 100 times between myself and if the shop/PO turned it prior to me getting the motor. Only a couple show the worn off white stuff from the earlier pic's and I found no sign of metal shavings or anything. Or am I being hardheaded again? :???:

[jtdesigns]

Paul, I'm floored that you even asked that...... As much detail you've put into your truck at this point,, why the he!! you skimping now?? The bearings may be ok, but then again they could be bad,,, why chance it???

[mfpdm]

I know, but this just sucks :fs1: I'm just ready to get this thing back on the road.

 

So, I'm going to get new mains and rod bearings. Looking at the crank, I see no evidence of wear or damage and the same with the cam. The rings should be fine. So far the only benefit that this engine has given me is that the machine work was done, freeze plugs, and it was clean.

[fiatslug87]

Loctite does not belong on main, rod, or head bolts, period.

 

:agree: That is correct according to the FSM

 

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Actually the '90 FSM says head bolt #11 should be coated with Locktite 592.