Car Enthusiast Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Are there any tricks for replacing the harmonic balancer on my 88 4.0 without taking the front end and radiator off? The rubber on mine separated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 It’s tight, but doable. Are you running into issues? Or just planning ahead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75sv1 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I'd replace it, with any signs of rubber damage. Even just cracks. No need to take the radiator out. As said above, its doable. The pullers are cheap. But you need the installer tool. I'd check one of the parts stores for the loaner tools. Also, I put a white stripe between the two metal parts. That way I can see if the elastomer has failed, and is slipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 No need to pull the radiator, at least the harmonic balancer tool I rented managed to fit. I do recommend a ratcheting box end wrench to drive the tool due to limited space. When you get the crank bolt out, don't forget to take off the 1/4" thick washer that's under the crank bolt head. Mine was so stuck on from grime that it stayed in place causing me to spend considerable time trying to pull against that washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 9 hours ago, pizzaman09 said: No need to pull the radiator, at least the harmonic balancer tool I rented managed to fit. I do recommend a ratcheting box end wrench to drive the tool due to limited space. When you get the crank bolt out, don't forget to take off the 1/4" thick washer that's under the crank bolt head. Mine was so stuck on from grime that it stayed in place causing me to spend considerable time trying to pull against that washer. That is a VERY good tip. Most guys who have never pulled a balancer don't know about the big washer under the bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GonzoTheGreat Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, AZJeff said: That is a VERY good tip. Most guys who have never pulled a balancer don't know about the big washer under the bolt. I'm a little less embarrassed knowing that other people have made this same mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mark Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Don't forget you will need a tool to press the new one on, it doesn't just slip on easy, I used a steering wheel puller to do this (I'm crafty like that) You only need to press it on to a point where the bolt grabs thread, but to avoid stripping out the threads press the new one on as far as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, Big_Mark said: Don't forget you will need a tool to press the new one on, it doesn't just slip on easy, I used a steering wheel puller to do this (I'm crafty like that) You only need to press it on to a point where the bolt grabs thread, but to avoid stripping out the threads press the new one on as far as you can. I rented this tool from Advance Auto, it worked amazingly for removing and installing the harmonic balancer.... After I removed the thick washer. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/powerbuilt-tools-kit-45-harmonic-puller-pulley-installer-kit-648616/9150003-p?product_channel=local&store=5323&adtype=pla_with_promotion&product_channel=local&store_code=5323&&&&&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlZixBhCoARIsAIC745D2t9WM-jfkHw63cgsLpmyUM37Q8C9D_cHC_seOqzkAN9P5oF8DkHIaAlorEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 6 hours ago, Big_Mark said: Don't forget you will need a tool to press the new one on, it doesn't just slip on easy, I used a steering wheel puller to do this (I'm crafty like that) You only need to press it on to a point where the bolt grabs thread, but to avoid stripping out the threads press the new one on as far as you can. This is another good point. If you try to start pulling the new balancer on with the threads of the regular attaching bolt, it’s quite possible to STRIP THE THREADS IN THE CRANKSHAFT! What I always do is to polish the end of the crank with fine emery cloth to remove rust and varnish. Then clean the crank with brake cleaner or the like. Also clean the inside of the hub of the new balancer with brake cleaner as well. Then use some clean motor oil on the snout of the crank and the inside of the balancer hub. Tap the balancer on to the hub to make sure it is started evenly. I find that light taps with a hammer should get the balancer on far enough that the retaining bolt with thread in at least 4-5 turns. omce the bolt is that deep (or more) the chance of stripping the threads is very low, and the bolt can draw the balancer on the rest of the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Enthusiast Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 On 4/22/2024 at 12:25 AM, 89 MJ said: It’s tight, but doable. Are you running into issues? Or just planning ahead? I have been shredding belts lately and after looking at it and not finding anything wrong with anything up top I looked at the harmonic balancer and the rubber is seperating from the inner and outer part causing the belt to be misaligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 15 hours ago, Car Enthusiast said: I have been shredding belts lately and after looking at it and not finding anything wrong with anything up top I looked at the harmonic balancer and the rubber is seperating from the inner and outer part causing the belt to be misaligned. That is the primary failure mode for a harmonic balancer. Fix it soon, or else the outer ring can "walk" rearward on the hub and begin chewing up the timing chain cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schardein Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 On mine, the outer ring started moving outwards. It began to make the slightest contact with the mechanical fan and I started hearing a very faint tinging noise. Glad I investigated it. It's a good reminder to pay attention when you hear a new noise or rattle, even (or especially) on our old trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Car Enthusiast Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 Yeah it is up on jack stands getting the turbines powder coated after I lowered it. I will put it on there before I drive it again........might as well just reseal the front of the motor while I am in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Htchevyii Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Make sure to use the special tool or balancer to correctly center the timing cover before torqueing it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboedMJ Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 What would a bad harmonic balancer sound like? I just replaced a pulley with a bad bearing because the front of my truck was ticking quite loudly, but that didn't fix it. Would this be the balancer ticking? The sound increases with speed, and I've never replaced the balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 17 hours ago, TurboedMJ said: What would a bad harmonic balancer sound like? I just replaced a pulley with a bad bearing because the front of my truck was ticking quite loudly, but that didn't fix it. Would this be the balancer ticking? The sound increases with speed, and I've never replaced the balancer. It could sound like a lot of things or nothing. Could squeak or chirp like a bad belt, could sound like metal on metal if it's rubbing on something or shouldn't, or it could be quite but fully separated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboedMJ Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Would it be okay to run the engine for a couple minutes with no belt to test the balancer? Or would it need to have belt tension on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pizzaman09 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 37 minutes ago, TurboedMJ said: Would it be okay to run the engine for a couple minutes with no belt to test the balancer? Or would it need to have belt tension on it. Yeah. Though honestly, it's not a bad job and the piece of mind of replacing a 30 year old bit of rubber is worth just changing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 On 5/28/2024 at 4:20 PM, Htchevyii said: Make sure to use the special tool or balancer to correctly center the timing cover before torqueing it down. If you are JUST replacing the balancer, and have NOT loosened the timing chain cover, the new balancer will fit on the existing seal and be concentric enough to seal correctly. People get into trouble when the loosen/remove the timing chain cover, and then the cover needs to be recentered on the balancer snout before it is tightened to the front of the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboedMJ Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 21 minutes ago, AZJeff said: If you are JUST replacing the balancer, and have NOT loosened the timing chain cover, the new balancer will fit on the existing seal and be concentric enough to seal correctly. People get into trouble when the loosen/remove the timing chain cover, and then the cover needs to be recentered on the balancer snout before it is tightened to the front of the engine. So there is separate hardware for the timing cover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZJeff Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 10 minutes ago, TurboedMJ said: So there is separate hardware for the timing cover? I don't quite understand your question. The timing cover is attached to the engine block with a bunch of small bolts that go around the perimeter of the cover and also join the cover to the oil pan. As long as these cover bolts are not loosened or removed, the cover's relationship with the crankshaft will remain untouched, and the concentricity of the balancer to the seal in the cover will be unchanged, thus insuring the seal will do it's job. It's only when someone removes or loosens the cover, and then does not realign it with the center of the crankshaft that we get into issues where the seal does not contact the surface of the balancer evenly, and it begins to leak oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboedMJ Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 9 minutes ago, AZJeff said: I don't quite understand your question. The timing cover is attached to the engine block with a bunch of small bolts that go around the perimeter of the cover and also join the cover to the oil pan. As long as these cover bolts are not loosened or removed, the cover's relationship with the crankshaft will remain untouched, and the concentricity of the balancer to the seal in the cover will be unchanged, thus insuring the seal will do it's job. It's only when someone removes or loosens the cover, and then does not realign it with the center of the crankshaft that we get into issues where the seal does not contact the surface of the balancer evenly, and it begins to leak oil. yep that's what I was wondering. If the timing cover was held in place and centered by the harmonic balancer or if it had its own bolts to secure it to the block. Which it does, so you answered my question thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schardein Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 4 hours ago, TurboedMJ said: Would it be okay to run the engine for a couple minutes with no belt to test the balancer? Or would it need to have belt tension on it. Yes it would be ok. Just keep in mind that the water pump is not pumping, the cooling fan is not cooling, the PS pump is not pumping, and the alternator is not... alternating? (Charging). The are no ill effects to the damper. It is still damping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboedMJ Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, schardein said: Yes it would be ok. Just keep in mind that the water pump is not pumping, the cooling fan is not cooling, the PS pump is not pumping, and the alternator is not... alternating? (Charging). The are no ill effects to the damper. It is still damping. Yep. I am not planning on driving it, just testing an idea I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboedMJ Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 What size bolts do I need to thread into the balancer to pull it? Nothing I have seems to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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