&^$*&%$@ Engineers

[Eagle]

It just took two of us over an hour to change the serpentine belt on my 2000 XJ. It should be simple -- loosen the bolt in the idler pulley, loosen the adjuster next to the power steering pump, remove old belt, install new belt, re-tighten two bolts.

 

But NOOOOOOO ...

 

Both bolts are 15mm. There isn't enough room to get a socket on the idler pulley bolt with the aux fan in the way, and the bolt was too tight to break loose with a box/open end wrench. So I called my friend, who has some specialized tools. Sure enough, he has a Matco wrench set specifically for doing serpentine belts. He only lives 10 minutes away, so he dropped what he was doing and came over with the special tool set.

 

Which didn't fit. In the end, we had to remove the aux fan to get access -- and there's not quite enough room to get the aux fan out without risking breakage. After that, it was easy.

 

I'll say again: NOBODY should be allowed to design anything about an automobile unless they have worked as a mechanic for at least two years.

[Ωhm]

I've always hated it when the starter motor was the first thing to go down the assembly line and everything bolted up to it.

[87MJTIM]

I found that with modern vehicles, if you want to change a part on the front, you start removing parts from the rear and work your way forward. 
 

If you want to change a part on the rear….

[89 MJ]

I’ve worked in a body shop since 2021. Out of everything I’ve helped work on, the best designed vehicle that’s relatively new seems to be the 2014-19 Silverado and Sierra pickups. Everything else is pretty much a pain. 

[PCO6]

I changed the serpentine belt on my 89 XJ about a month ago.   I was happy to do it compared to what is required for a newish Cherokee.    The lower rad hose runs through the belt and has to be removed to get it off!   I don't know whether to blame the Engineers for this or congratulate them for finding a way to make it possible ... although I know what they would say.   

 

Go to about the 2:25 mark.

 

[Salvagedcircuit]

5 hours ago, PCO6 said:

I changed the serpentine belt on my 89 XJ about a month ago.   I was happy to do it compared to what is required for a newish Cherokee.    The lower rad hose runs through the belt and has to be removed to get it off!   I don't know whether to blame the Engineers for this or congratulate them for finding a way to make it possible ... although I know what they would say.  

Wow! That's incredible innovation right there! Always wanted to flush the coolant to replace a Serpentine belt

[PCO6]

13 minutes ago, Salvagedcircuit said:

Wow! That's incredible innovation right there! Always wanted to flush the coolant to replace a Serpentine belt

 

LOL.   Just try not to to get a mouth full like that poor guy did!

[FrankTheDog]

Well, it is a Fiat.

[OldSch88L]

22 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

I’ve worked in a body shop since 2021. Out of everything I’ve helped work on, the best designed vehicle that’s relatively new seems to be the 2014-19 Silverado and Sierra pickups. Everything else is pretty much a pain. 

Are you just talking trucks, or overall? Because when I worked in a body shop from 2017 to 2020, my favorites where Hyundai/Kia and Subaru, then every other japanese car. The worst that I hated with a passion where Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW. Those Silverados ain't to bad, but they have their bad designs... I had to change an oil cooler on our 2016 delivery truck, which involved removing the grille, which first involved removing the front fender flares, headlights, upper valance...

[89 MJ]

34 minutes ago, OldSch88L said:

Are you just talking trucks, or overall? Because when I worked in a body shop from 2017 to 2020, my favorites where Hyundai/Kia and Subaru, then every other japanese car. The worst that I hated with a passion where Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW. Those Silverados ain't to bad, but they have their bad designs... I had to change an oil cooler on our 2016 delivery truck, which involved removing the grille, which first involved removing the front fender flares, headlights, upper valance...

The issue I had with lots of Japanese cars were how small everything was. There was no room to do anything

[FrankTheDog]

The issue with German car’s is that their designed to keep the whole village employed just like everything else made in Germany.

[Car Enthusiast]

On 12/9/2023 at 5:12 PM, Eagle said:

It just took two of us over an hour to change the serpentine belt on my 2000 XJ. It should be simple -- loosen the bolt in the idler pulley, loosen the adjuster next to the power steering pump, remove old belt, install new belt, re-tighten two bolts.

 

But NOOOOOOO ...

 

Both bolts are 15mm. There isn't enough room to get a socket on the idler pulley bolt with the aux fan in the way, and the bolt was too tight to break loose with a box/open end wrench. So I called my friend, who has some specialized tools. Sure enough, he has a Matco wrench set specifically for doing serpentine belts. He only lives 10 minutes away, so he dropped what he was doing and came over with the special tool set.

 

Which didn't fit. In the end, we had to remove the aux fan to get access -- and there's not quite enough room to get the aux fan out without risking breakage. After that, it was easy.

 

I'll say again: NOBODY should be allowed to design anything about an automobile unless they have worked as a mechanic for at least two years.

Did you put a cheater bar on the box wrench to break it free, or another box wrench? I know exactly what you are talking about after putting a new pump and steering box on my 01.

[AZJeff]

On 12/9/2023 at 3:12 PM, Eagle said:

It just took two of us over an hour to change the serpentine belt on my 2000 XJ. It should be simple -- loosen the bolt in the idler pulley, loosen the adjuster next to the power steering pump, remove old belt, install new belt, re-tighten two bolts.

 

But NOOOOOOO ...

 

Both bolts are 15mm. There isn't enough room to get a socket on the idler pulley bolt with the aux fan in the way, and the bolt was too tight to break loose with a box/open end wrench. So I called my friend, who has some specialized tools. Sure enough, he has a Matco wrench set specifically for doing serpentine belts. He only lives 10 minutes away, so he dropped what he was doing and came over with the special tool set.

 

Which didn't fit. In the end, we had to remove the aux fan to get access -- and there's not quite enough room to get the aux fan out without risking breakage. After that, it was easy.

 

I'll say again: NOBODY should be allowed to design anything about an automobile unless they have worked as a mechanic for at least two years.

Eagle, I am a retired mechanical engineer, and while I appreciate your situation, you gotta remember that the XJ/MJ engine compartment was not originally sized to fit the 4.0

 

Anytime I do virtually anything on the front of an XJ/MJ with a 4.0, I start by removing the mech. Fan shroud and the e-fan.  It’s a case where the front of that engine is 10lbs of s##t in a five pound box.