should I lift 4" or 6.5"

[MiNi Beast]

if plan to go to 35s eventually, id say 4.88s, but with a stick 4.56s will be good and better overall performance. 

[Jesse J]

yeah thats my plan 4.88 will give me crappy gas mileage with 33s, good  torque though

[MiNi Beast]

i have 4.88s with 37s with auto. better when i install ax15. then be down right fun and reliable. 

[Jesse J]

thats pretty bitchen

[ghetdjc320]

7 hours ago, Jessemj said:

I'm planning to swap the rear for a c8.25 with zj brakes.

Just pickup a liberty axle with disks. Rough country and rustys are anything but a quality lift kit. Again, steering and brakes... if you don’t have the coin to do it all now that’s no problem just don’t do the lift thinking that you can do steering and brakes sometime down the road. If you keep it at 4” or even a bit less you’ll have a much better riding rig without having to do as many mods to compensate. Even at 4” there is plenty to do to make it right. 

[ghetdjc320]

7 hours ago, mnkyboy said:

SYE is significantly stronger than a stock output so it's a nice upgrade.(assuming you do a full kit and not a hack n tap)

 

Otherwise the MJ has a mile long driveshaft so you could probably lift it over a foot and still not need an SYE to correct driveline angle issues.

Based on you last couple of comments, it sounds like you have a long bed. The short bed has an almost ideal wheelbase for wheeling but does run into driveline vibes when going soa. Pinion angle is crucial but it is a bandage. 

[mnkyboy]

21 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Based on you last couple of comments, it sounds like you have a long bed. The short bed has an almost ideal wheelbase for wheeling but does run into driveline vibes when going soa. Pinion angle is crucial but it is a bandage. 

I have a short box with an altered wheel base, it's currently at 118", it also has a tummy tuck with 2' of belly clearance under the crossmember, I still drag the belly in the rocks which is while I say I prefer a little more lift on the longer rigs.

 

The stock short box wheelbase is ok for wheeling but still a little on the long side, you shouldn't run into driveline vibes on the short box, I have set them up as high as a 10" lift and had no vibes.

[ghetdjc320]

22 minutes ago, mnkyboy said:

I have a short box with an altered wheel base, it's currently at 118", it also has a tummy tuck with 2' of belly clearance under the crossmember, I still drag the belly in the rocks which is while I say I prefer a little more lift on the longer rigs.

 

The stock short box wheelbase is ok for wheeling but still a little on the long side, you shouldn't run into driveline vibes on the short box, I have set them up as high as a 10" lift and had no vibes.

it’s all about the operating angle of the u joints. Not having vibes for a bit doesn’t mean you have the right geometry. U joints can’t handle much angle at all. Pinion angle is the kicker when it comes to being able to run the double u joint H yoke at the tcase. 

As for the lift, the whole goal on solid

axle rigs is clearance under the axle. The only thing that affects that is tire size. The taller it gets the more you throw off you cog. Considering this is a high schoolers rig, would you really recommend he jack up his cog from stock to 6.5+”. I haven’t heard any plan to address steering and brakes. Anything over 6” is going to need crossover steering. And any tires over 33’s are going to need much improved brakes. 

[mnkyboy]

I actually put a 6.5" lift under my 17 year olds Comanche, so I have no problem recommending it to a highschooler. 

As long as he addresses everything that goes with lifting it that much it should be a nice driving rig.

 

I have put together several MJs and around 6" seems to be a good height for them, high enough to help keep the belly out of the way but not so tall that it feels like it's going to tip over.

 

 

[ghetdjc320]

To the OP I’d strongly recommend 4” lift. And I would also recommend to stay away from rough country and rustys. Just my $.02

[mnkyboy]

Well then hopefully he will read all of this and address what he needs to.

 

I ran a 6.5" lift on mine for several years with 33s, 33s seem to be a good tire size that doesn't require a lot of mods to safely run. Over time I beefed up everything under the truck then eventually moved up to much larger tires.

As long as he gets a complete suspension kit, I think he could safely do the same.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MiNi Beast]

very nice. ^ 

[Jesse J]

19 hours ago, mnkyboy said:

I actually put a 6.5" lift under my 17 year olds Comanche, so I have no problem recommending it to a highschooler. 

As long as he addresses everything that goes with lifting it that much it should be a nice driving rig.

 

I have put together several MJs and around 6" seems to be a good height for them, high enough to help keep the belly out of the way but not so tall that it feels like it's going to tip over.

 

 

yeah thats my thinking.

what more do i have to do to it steering or otherwise to run safely. also what brand kit (or how other way to lift) did you put under your kids mj. and did you make that bumper in the above or where did you get that thing I really dig it.

[Jesse J]

17 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

To the OP I’d strongly recommend 4” lift. And I would also recommend to stay away from rough country and rustys. Just my $.02

what 4" kit or way to achieve the lift would you suggest then?

[mnkyboy]

54 minutes ago, Jessemj said:

yeah thats my thinking.

what more do i have to do to it steering or otherwise to run safely. also what brand kit (or how other way to lift) did you put under your kids mj. and did you make that bumper in the above or where did you get that thing I really dig it.

The bumper my brother tossed together years ago, it's still on the truck but I've modified it to run a hidden winch.

 

To lift it I would go SOA in the rear which should make the truck sit about level with 6.5" up front, I usually go with Barnes 4wd or Ruff stuff for the SOA kit, you will need to get the perches welded on with those kits, there is the RRO SOA kit which bolts on but I would recommend welding it on too although you wouldn't need to right away.

 

Up front you want some 6" or 6.5" coils,an adjustable track bar,sway bar disconnects (keep the sway bar regardless what people tell you, especially as a younger driver), longer shocks, and longer brake lines. 

Then decide if you want long arm or short arm, I suggest doing a bunch of research on the various link set ups to decide what you want, don't just focus on price.

There's a ton of options, personally I like short arms with drop brackets for a budget option or 3 link mid/long arms if you have the money. while the suspension is apart you should consider front frame stiffeners,a full kit is best but at the least doing fronts will keep your unit frame from cracking around the steering box.

 

At that lift height you will be at the limits of the stock steering, so it should be upgraded but you could run the stock stuff for a little while,many people do. Depending on the track bar you get you may or may not need a new pitman arm, often times your angles look good with the stock one.

 

Stock brakes will work ok with 33s but should be on your upgrade list, at least a dual diaphragm booster and 1" bore master upgrade from a WJ or 95 up XJ.

 

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff but that's the basic stuff you will want whether you buy a kit or piece something together.

[Jesse J]

dang this is really helpful i appreciate it.

and what size is that tubing for the bumper

 

[Jesse J]

4 hours ago, mnkyboy said:

The bumper my brother tossed together years ago, it's still on the truck but I've modified it to run a hidden winch.

 

To lift it I would go SOA in the rear which should make the truck sit about level with 6.5" up front, I usually go with Barnes 4wd or Ruff stuff for the SOA kit, you will need to get the perches welded on with those kits, there is the RRO SOA kit which bolts on but I would recommend welding it on too although you wouldn't need to right away.

 

Up front you want some 6" or 6.5" coils,an adjustable track bar,sway bar disconnects (keep the sway bar regardless what people tell you, especially as a younger driver), longer shocks, and longer brake lines. 

Then decide if you want long arm or short arm, I suggest doing a bunch of research on the various link set ups to decide what you want, don't just focus on price.

There's a ton of options, personally I like short arms with drop brackets for a budget option or 3 link mid/long arms if you have the money. while the suspension is apart you should consider front frame stiffeners,a full kit is best but at the least doing fronts will keep your unit frame from cracking around the steering box.

 

At that lift height you will be at the limits of the stock steering, so it should be upgraded but you could run the stock stuff for a little while,many people do. Depending on the track bar you get you may or may not need a new pitman arm, often times your angles look good with the stock one.

 

Stock brakes will work ok with 33s but should be on your upgrade list, at least a dual diaphragm booster and 1" bore master upgrade from a WJ or 95 up XJ.

 

I'm sure I'm missing some stuff but that's the basic stuff you will want whether you buy a kit or piece something together.

so where do I get all those coils and things. and what does "full kit" mean?

[mnkyboy]

Once you decide on what specific set up you want to go with you will have to shop around for each part and see what your options are for the parts you want, or shop for more complete kits that include most of what you need then fill in the blanks on anything missing.

Lift kits will vary from all inclusive addressing pretty much everything you need, down to the bare bones minimum to lift a vehicle so pay attention to what's in each kit as you shop.

 

Full kit for frame stiffeners means the complete set of stiffeners to plate much of the unit frame, you can buy everything as a kit or individual pieces.

You don't necessarily need the stiffeners but they will make your Jeep hold up better especially if you play offroad alot,doing just the front pieces will help protect the unit frame from cracking around the steering box which is a super common problem with lifted MJs/XJs.

[ghetdjc320]

Just to clarify, there is no complete off the shelf lift kit for the MJ for a 6.5” lift that includes everything you’ll need/want to modify. Don’t even worry about frame stiffeners if your not going to swap your steering. At 6.5” the tie rod angles will be extreme and will be destroyed if flexed off-road. Plus, at 6.5” 33’s look quite small depending on flares. Running 33’s and re-gearing a stock dana 35 rear axle for wheeling will kill that axle in very short order. You’ll start to see why several of us have recommended going with a lower lift unless you have the budget, time and experience to go bigger. Get some time in wheeling and you can see what you really need to wheel the way you want. You’ll learn to work on your rig and how it all works. Even in stock form, it’s a ton of fun to wheel. 

[mnkyboy]

A steering upgrade is easily done later, stiffeners are best done early on while everything is out of the way. 

Even with a smaller lift they would be a good idea for any unit framed Jeep running bigger tires.

 

Besides the operating angles, the stock steering is built too light for any serious wheeling and should be upgraded no matter what lift you have, but it will get you by in the meantime as there's plenty of lifted MJs that have been running the stock stuff for years.

 

Although a D35 can be built to hold 33s it's typically not recommended, since perches need welded on anyway for the SOA it's the perfect time to upgrade, even a 29 spline 8.25 from a 96.5-01 XJ would be a huge upgrade and can often be picked up for $100 or less.

[Jesse J]

Thanks for the input guys.

Should I do a front axle swap as well. I think I'm gonna swap the d35 for a c8.25 but a front swap sounds tricky even though it might be a good idea

[89 MJ]

29 minutes ago, Jessemj said:

Thanks for the input guys.

Should I do a front axle swap as well. I think I'm gonna swap the d35 for a c8.25 but a front swap sounds tricky even though it might be a good idea

The D30 should be fine. My dad as a V8 5 speed YJ on 35s with a D30 front and haven't had an issue yet.

[mnkyboy]

Front axle will probably be ok, I would upgrade the shafts though.

 

All years ABS D30s and all 95 and newer D30s got larger Spicer 5-297x u joints which can be upgraded to even stronger 5-760x u joints, they will be a huge upgrade over the 5-260x joints you probably have now.

Even the ZJ CV shafts could be considered an upgrade.

 

Those shafts will however require deleting the vacuum disconnect and going to a one piece passenger side shaft.

 

If you want to keep the disconnect you can get ABS YJ or 1995 YJ shafts which should have the larger joints.

 

Beyond that your looking at aftermarket shafts which are nice but can get spendy.

[Jesse J]

sweet thanks.

can I diy fram stiffeners or what.

[89 MJ]

2 minutes ago, Jessemj said:

sweet thanks.

can I diy fram stiffeners or what.

@krustyballer16 makes stiffeners I think. He also makes roll bar brackets, seat brackets, and rock sliders.