Will my Comanche break in half?

[Gene]

Hi everyone,

 

Darn this foum and everyone on it! About a year and 1/2 ago I was ready to accept that my Comanche was at the end of the line. Then I found this forum, and really got the bug again. Except for the rust, the Comanche is running quite well. Plus the sentimental value, I've had it since it was new. 

 

So today I was underneath, mostly checking the front end for the death wobble, which I put in another post. But as I looked back, I thought the frame looked way worse than I remembered.

 

So I poked it, first with my fingers, then with a hammer and chisel, finally with an angle grinder. There are sections, especially where the cab meets the bed, where there is basically nothing there.

 

The area around the transmission crossmember seems sound, and the area around the spring shackle seems good.

 

I don't weld, but I have a friend who is a good welder. He hasn't seen this yet, but in talking to him he thought that perhaps using angle iron, 3/16 inch, may be 2 inch by 3 inch, would repair this. The 3 inch would go up the frame vertically, the 2 inch would span the bottom horizontally. Then it would be welded to the 2 inch angle iron that was on the other side of the channel.

 

Am I nuts to even consider this? Any other thoughts about this?

 

I have not posted pictures before, I'm going to try to do it in the following post.

 

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.

 

Gene 

[Gene]

http://imgur.com/UC3OBNV

 

http://imgur.com/lhrSlAC

 

http://imgur.com/TS23REi

 

http://imgur.com/Zsqd49q

 

http://imgur.com/nrxPN61

 

http://imgur.com/874IzkR

[Gene]

http://imgur.com/dDy5qvg

 

http://imgur.com/xLpduSk

 

http://imgur.com/aRDsktB

 

http://imgur.com/flk1NQ6

 

http://imgur.com/PnGsN98

[Jeep Driver]

That doesn't look good.

 

 

[Minuit]

I think your truck's a good expansion joint away from breaking in two.

[Eagle]

Better would be if you could find a U-shaped member that would replace the bottom and both sides of the frame rail in one piece, but I don't know of any source for such for the Comanche or Cherokee, So steel angle might be the only option. But ... 3/16"? I think 3/32" would be plenty, and 1/8" would be overkill.

[Eagle]

These might work, with some alterations:

http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/XJRAIL.htmlhttp://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/XJRAIL.html

 

Found this on the Jeepin.com forum:

 

 

Mostly everything you want to know can be found here.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...highlight=TOTW

(XJ unibody reinforcement was a 'topic of the week' thread a while ago on Pirate)

Most guys usually get a crapload of 4x6x1/4" box tubing, cut it in half along the 6" side via a torch or some other implement, and then you have 3" x 4" channel. This section tends to fit really nicely over the 'rails' on the bottom of the unibody. Bolt it through every 8-12" with a 1/2" good bolt, drill some holes on the bottom for drainage, weld the pieces together, and then stitch-weld the pieces to the exposed unibody rail every few inches or so. If you can't do this last part (welding 1/4" to 11-gauge sheetmetal can be tricky) then you can get it all bolted in and drive it to someone who can.

This method helps a lot from what I understand, I plan on trying it over winter break. Gets rid of creaks/crackles and stuff while flexing, takes a lot of the torsional stress off the frame...

 

I'm interested in that tube ==> channel idea, because that's exactly what I was thinking of but I didn't know that any standard steel shape would fit.

[Gene]

. But ... 3/16"? I think 3/32" would be plenty, and 1/8" would be overkill.

 Thanks Eagle

 

Any idea of the original frame thickness? The bottom especially seemed beefy, maybe 1/4" if I could guess.

 

Gene

[Pete M]

the frame is made of sheetmetal.  double layered, but just sheet.  nothing thick at all.  :(

[Gene]

the frame is made of sheetmetal.  double layered, but just sheet.  nothing thick at all.   :(

Hi Pete,

 

That explains a lot. I was pulling fair sized pieces of rusted metal out of the frame rails.  They were probably the inner layer that had disintegrated. Was the bottom of the frame 4 layers, two double layers overlapped?

 

So that must complicate welding new metal in?

 

Thanks

 

Gene

[HOrnbrod]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but reading through your post i gather that you have had this MJ since new and just recently noticed the frame is basically gone? Who sprayed the red spray paint all over it?

 

Sorry man, I don't get it.   :dunno:

[yellaheep]

How can automotive enthusiasts live in the eastern States?  I can't imagine the extra work all that rust ads to a simple bolt off, bolt on repair or modification.  

 

I'd have to give 'em up or move.

[Gene]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but reading through your post i gather that you have had this MJ since new and just recently noticed the frame is basically gone? Who sprayed the red spray paint all over it?

 

Sorry man, I don't get it.   :dunno:

Hi Don,

 

Vehicle was repainted a while ago. You are seeing overspray.

 

I knew the frame had rust, but no major holes. It was only when I started probing that the extent of the damage became evident.

Besides, what does someone from Alabama know about rust? :???:  :???:  :???:

 

How can automotive enthusiasts live in the eastern States?  I can't imagine the extra work all that rust ads to a simple bolt off, bolt on repair or modification.  

 

I'd have to give 'em up or move.

 

Yes yellaheep,

 

Kroil and a torch (propane for me, I'm not in the big leagues) become good friends.

 

Gene

[HOrnbrod]

Besides, what does someone from Alabama know about rust? :???:  :???:  :???:

Hi Gene. A lot. Born and brought up in New England. Never again..

[DirtyComanche]

I could probably put a set of Ruffstuff XJ frame stiffeners up against the MJ frame if you're curious if it would cover enough to partially fix that problem.  They're only an L shape, so they would really only work to bridge another repair and make it more proper.  I've never tried fitting them against the MJ though.

[Gene]

 

Besides, what does someone from Alabama know about rust? :???:  :???:  :???:

Hi Gene. A lot. Born and brought up in New England. Never again..

 

Hi Don,

 

Then I stand humbly corrected :bowdown:  :yes: !

 

So do you still sound New England in the midst of the land of southern drawl? And which sports teams do you favor?

 

Gene

[Gene]

I could probably put a set of Ruffstuff XJ frame stiffeners up against the MJ frame if you're curious if it would cover enough to partially fix that problem.  They're only an L shape, so they would really only work to bridge another repair and make it more proper.  I've never tried fitting them against the MJ though.

 

Hi DirtyComanche,

 

If you could do that without a lot of hassle, it might give me another option.

 

Thanks

 

Gene

[HOrnbrod]

 

I looked at a few of your pics, and it's bad Gene. If it looks that bad on the outside it's much worse on the inside. The structural integrity is gone and it's unsafe to drive IMO. Anything can be repaired, but that's going to be a ton of work and a lot of $$ to make roadworthy again. It might be time to retire the old girl.............

[ComancheKid45]

[Gene]

 

 

I looked at a few of your pics, and it's bad Gene. If it looks that bad on the outside it's much worse on the inside. The structural integrity is gone and it's unsafe to drive IMO. Anything can be repaired, but that's going to be a ton of work and a lot of $$ to make roadworthy again. It might be time to retire the old girl.............

I have to agree with this, I've seen some bad MJ frames but this is easily one of if not the worst...

 

 Hi ComancheKid,

 

Yeah, if you are in Shippensburg and call this the worst you have seen, that is saying something....

 

I actually grew up in Scranton, just up the road from you. We have lived in western Pa/western Md. for the last 30 years, and the Comanche is my winter vehicle, so it has seen lots of snow and salt.

 

Western Maryland pretreats roads with a white liquid form of salt, that dries on the road, I've heard it is a combination of sodium and calcium salts. Whatever makes it stick to roads seems to make it stick to vehicles, and greatly accelerate rust and corrosion.

 

I suspect this may be the end of the line for this Comanche. 

 

So the fantasy plan would be to get a southern Comanche with no rust. These seem to be be rear wheel drive. Then switch the 4 wheel drive drivetrain over....

 

Thanks

 

Gene

[Gene]

 

I looked at a few of your pics, and it's bad Gene. If it looks that bad on the outside it's much worse on the inside. The structural integrity is gone and it's unsafe to drive IMO. Anything can be repaired, but that's going to be a ton of work and a lot of $$ to make roadworthy again. It might be time to retire the old girl.............

 Hi Don,

 

You are probably right (as usual) . When my friend gets time to take a look, he will probably tell me the same.

 

He does work fairly inexpensively (In his spare time so it takes a while) so if he agrees to work on it the cost may not be astronomical.

 

I'm just driving it infrequently, gently, and close to home.

 

Thanks

 

Gene

[Eagle]

 

 

I'm just driving it infrequently, gently, and close to home.

 

Thanks

 

Gene

 

 

I wouldn't drive that at all, anywhere.

 

With a unibody, the "frame" rails and the floor pan combine to make the structure. Each "frame" rail acts like a beam. The thing with beams is that it's the top and bottom that do the work -- the vertical parts are only there to keep the top and bottom flanges separated. The top flange (the floor pan, in a unibody) sees compression forces, the bottom flange sees tension forces, and the middle of the verticals is what the engineers call the "neutral axis" -- no force at all. Once any portion of the bottom surface gets weakened or broken, there's no continuous path for the tensile forces. Those photos are so bad that there's no question of "if" your truck is going to break -- the only question is when. One half-decent pothole with a 5-pound bag of groceries on the passenger seat could be all it takes.

[Gene]

Thanks Eagle,

 

So I mentioned that the rust looked much worse....

 

Would you believe that 2 years ago I hauled over a ton of gravel in this??

 

Gene

[Pete M]

just more proof that Comanches are tough as nails :D  

 

but I'd count my blessings and call it a day with that one.  makes my 90 look like a gem! :(  

 

if you do get a clean MJ, don't let it touch the winter.  

[DirtyComanche]

That will take some major fab work and effort to repair...  And by repair, I mean rebuild in a way that's not factory at all.