86 Diesel MJ to VW TDI conversion

[masimmons25]

 

 

Started shopping for an upgraded turbocharger from Europe.  Looking to buy a turbo from a 170/177 hp. 2 litre Audi or VW or from a 190 hp 2 litre BMW 320D. 

 

Is this the VNT17 I keep hearing about?

 

 

No.  The VNT17 is a bolt on upgrade to the ALH VNT15.  The ALH engine was last used in 2003, but still very popular and reliable.  The 1Z and AHU engines are older than the ALH by 3 or 4 years and did not have a VNT turbo (VNT = Variable Nozzle Turbo).  The older engines used a wastegated turbo, not VNT.

 

The GTC1549VZ turbo is about 2 generations newer than the VNT-17 and was never sold in North America.  The GTD1752VRK is 3 generations newer than the VNT-17, also never sold in North America  Both of these turbos support more top end horsepower and spool quicker at the low end than the VNT-17.   That means a broad, flat torque curve.  As an example, later Audi/VW diesels report peak torque over a range of 1750 to 2750 rpms, rather than at 1900 rpms.   The GTC turbo pushes enough air to support 200-210 horsepower.  The GTD turbo will support 220 horsepower.  Both Turbos require some custom work to mate to the ALH, AHJ, & 1Z engines. 

 

For the last 18 months, I have been running a GTC1549VZ turbo on my 96 Passat with close to double the stock horsepower and I have been super pleased with the results.  Very, very little turbo lag and smooth power to 4500+ rpm.  We had to dial back the power because the clutch would start to slip at 313 lb/ft of torque.  The tune is now putting out 285 lb/ft with no clutch slipping. Max boost pressure is held to 26 psi, in the interest of keeping the head gasket in one piece.  The 285 lb/ft is at the front wheels on the dyno.  The H.O. 4.0 puts out 230 lb/ft at the flywheel, not the rear wheels.

 

With this engine for the Comanche, the stronger 12.9 head bolts will keep the gasket in place for more than 30 psi boost.  The AHU pistons are said to be a bit stronger than the 1Z pistons also.  The larger Jeep 4.0 LUK H.D. clutch "should" support more torque than the stock VW VR6 clutch.  All in all, the thinking is that the GTD1752VRK turbo will be able to deliver the same or more torque at lower Exhaust Gas Temperatures in the Comanche compared to the GTC1549VZ in the much more aerodynamic Passat.

 

Sorry for the long winded response.

 

Digging the progress on your build, could you elaborate a little on the custom work needed to mate a GTC1549VZ or GTD1752VRK to a 1z, I did a little searching over at tdiclub couldn't find anything specific.

[johnj92131]

To put the GTC1549VZ on the 1Z manifold, a simple flat plate adapter was made to join turbo to exhaust manifold.  The output side of the turbo was "clocked" to point the fresh air in the correct direction.  Then custom pipes were built to the intercooler.  The exhaust down pipe was also fabricated with the new turbo in place and welded to the cat converter.  Down pipe diameter is 2.5 inches.  Matt Whitbread did all the installation in one day, including making the custom pipes.  It was a real joy to watch the process.

 

The GTD1752VRK will be a bit more complex to adapt.  Will have to see when I manage to acquire one.  The GTD has an electronic actuator for the VNT as opposed to a Vacuum actuator, so the tuner will solve that issue.  All in all, the GTD will be a bit of a bleeding edge project to adapt.

 

Someplace I have a poor picture of the manifold and adapter, but Whitbread has the drawing and can make it.  No idea what he would charge, but would expect it to be reasonable for the machine work.

 

 

 

Hope this helps, let me know if you have more questions.

[A-man930]

I've spent the last 10 min looking at the different exhaust manifolds out there (1Z/AHU/AAZ etc).  Would not us Jeep guys benefit from one of the "top mount" exh. manifolds so the turbo isn't down in the mud or water?? 

[johnj92131]

I've spent the last 10 min looking at the different exhaust manifolds out there (1Z/AHU/AAZ etc).  Would not us Jeep guys benefit from one of the "top mount" exh. manifolds so the turbo isn't down in the mud or water?? 

 

Not sure.  I won't know till the jeep is done.  BUT, ask some of the guys who have done the conversion over on the TDIClub.  Personally think water should just boil off the hot turbo right away.  Mud may take a bit longer to fall off??  Does a top mount turbo run into hood clearance problems??

[johnj92131]

Ran into an issue with the AX-15 input shaft.  The pilot bearing area on the shaft is pitted rather deeply.  Even after cleaning with emery cloth is still did not look too hot.  Fortunately, Whitbread had an extra AX-15 input shaft left over from a previous customer who had to use a Toyota input shaft on his AX-15.  To change the input shaft required several hours labor to tear the trans down.  Once the trans was apart, Whitbread found water at the bottom of the case.  I had the transmission stored in my back yard for 3 months last fall/winter under a cheap Harbor Freight tarp.  So the water very likely came from the super heavy rain we got in November/December.  Also found the speedometer gear had fallen inside the trans case in all its travels from Charlotte to San Diego and back to Michigan.  Anyway the trans is back together and turns nicely now.

 

 

 

Transmission on the bench:

 

 

 

Back together:

 

 

Finished engine with adapter plate, Jeep clutch and flywheel in place:

 

 

 

 

 

Just about ready to start trial fitting the new power train into the Comanche.

[johnj92131]

For the last 10 days I have been turbocharger shopping in Europe (isn't the internet wonderful).  Time to report some of what I have found.

 

If you read post #21, you will know my "preferred" turbo for this build is the GTD1752VRK from a 190 hp 2015 BMW 2.0 diesel.  It is loaded with the very latest in turbo technology.  All this comes with a price in several parts. 

 

First, because they were first used in 2014/15 BMW's - not very many are in the used market.  Hence the best I can find a used one for is $800.  A new one is right at $1000.  Second, being a BMW, things are done "differently".  In this case, the turbo used V band clamps to connect to the exhaust manifold.  Not a standard bolt on like most other car makers.  So this means time and $$ to build a new custom adapter.  Third, being the latest and greatest turbo, the turbo is controlled electronically rather than by vacuum, So again, more time and $$ for the tuner to figure out hot to program and modify it.

 

On the other hand, my second choice turbo, the GTC1549VZ from 170/177 hp VW/Audi's, is looking like a real bargain.  Two and a half years, they were the new hot thing and scarce in the used market.  I paid over $800 for mine.  Today, I can find 9 or 10 of them just on Ebay.uk for between $230 and $375.  Just an increase in supply of used turbos now that they have been out a while. 

 

Whitbread used the GTC1549VZ on my Passat turbo upgrade, so he/we have no surprises or extra $$ to put it in the Comanche project. Same thing goes for the engine tune, I paid for the dyno testing and adjustments to the tune for the GTC turbo when we did the Passat.

 

Whitbread say is up to me which turbo I want to use.  But he asks me "How much do you want to pay for about 15 extra horsepower?

 

So, Comanche fans.  How much real $$ would you be willing to pay for the extra horsepower and latest/greatest turbo technology?

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[A-man930]

Go with the older turbo; it's a no-brainer in my mind.  Spend that money on other parts of the truck that undoubtedly need attention.  

[Mnh88xj]

Are you using a company conversion kit to adapt the tdi, or doing your own custom one?..I also have a 98 TDI I'm thinking about swapping into my MJ

[johnj92131]

Are you using a company conversion kit to adapt the tdi, or doing your own custom one?..I also have a 98 TDI I'm thinking about swapping into my MJ

 

 

Thought I posted this earlier.  But I could not find it.      Purchased the conversion kit from:

 

http://gastodiesel.tdconversions.com/

 

They have a very good reputation on TDIClub.  Comes complete with a new starter.  They also sell a motor mount kit for the ALH and later TDI engines.  Unfortunately not for the AHU  (your 98 engine or my 99 engine).

[DirtyComanche]

Is that mini starter something that can be sourced elsewhere if those guys go out of business?

[DirtyComanche]

And I second going with the older vacuum controlled turbo.  However, it really is up to you, if the newer turbo can be controlled cheaply then it may offer other benefits than just the 15HP, eh?  Faster spool time, better throttle response?

[A-man930]

Is that mini starter something that can be sourced elsewhere if those guys go out of business?

Same question here. Although I want to say it's a common aftermarket "high torque" starter for sbc or something.

[onlyinajeep726]

Subscribed!

[johnj92131]

Is that mini starter something that can be sourced elsewhere if those guys go out of business?

 

 

And I second going with the older vacuum controlled turbo.  However, it really is up to you, if the newer turbo can be controlled cheaply then it may offer other benefits than just the 15HP, eh?  Faster spool time, better throttle response?

 

 

 

Is that mini starter something that can be sourced elsewhere if those guys go out of business?

Same question here. Although I want to say it's a common aftermarket "high torque" starter for sbc or something.

 

 

Good question on the starter!  Had to do a bit of research.  Here is what I know right now:

 

"Yes the kits all come with a starter.

Its an aftermarket Mini High Torque unit which is very common.

We machine the end housing to fit our adapter but it just bolts to the end of the starter and would swap to the replacement starter.

Its a Hitachi style starter so pretty common.

My experience now days is that parts stores don't stock much and have to order larger parts in. Maybe that's just a Canadian thing. "

 

I need to find out which common engines the starter fits. 

 

Decided on the turbo.  As A-man930 pointed out - the 31 year old Jeep will need attention ($$) and other parts.  So it will be the GTC1549VZ turbo and an extra $1000 to spend on other needed attention items for the truck.  Also, that turbo spools really great as it is from below 1500 rpm.  Per Garrett, the newest generation is a 3-4% improvement.  But the Ebay cost is more like 2.5 times for the newest GTD turbo.  Did find a rebuilder in Germany advertising "rebuilt" GTD turbos for about 400 euros ($425), but was out of stock.

[johnj92131]

Found a couple of pictures Whitbread took in May, 2015 test fitting the GTC1549VZ turbo on an engine he had in his shop.  This turbo went on my Passat in Sept. 2015.  You will see some of the clearance problems with the stock rear motor mount.   In the first picture, look closely to see the flat plate adapter from the turbo to the exhaust manifold.

 

I will add a couple more older pictures as I find them.

 

 

 

 

 

[johnj92131]

We hit a progress stopping issue last Friday.  Whitbread dangled the engine/transmission into the Comanche and discovered the Transmission mounting bracket on the truck would not work.  Long story short, Strokermjcomanche came to the rescue.  So we should be back on track by this weekend.

 

See the story in this link:  http://comancheclub.com/topic/52958-ax15-torque-arm-bracket-part-numbersource/

 

On other news.  We took the advice of A-man930 and DirtyComanche.  Ordered a GTC1549VZ turbo from Ebay.uk.  Final, delivered price for the turbo $275.  Extra funds will be spent on other needed parts for the truck.  Should see the turbo in about 10 days.  Ebay seller had great feedback.

 

Next up date after May 1.

[A-man930]

Ordered a GTC1549VZ turbo from Ebay.uk.  Final, delivered price for the turbo $275.  Extra funds will be spent on other needed parts for the truck.  Should see the turbo in about 10 days.  Ebay seller had great feedback.

 

This is fantastic news!!  Here I am considering utilizing the tired old VNT15 'till I can afford what I thought would be a $1,200 turbo upgrade.  For that $$ I may be able to jump straight into one! (assuming a manifold is ea$y to come by)

[johnj92131]

A-Man

 

I will check with Whitbread on the ALH manifold next time I speak with him.  Know he charges $100 for the manifold adapter plate and a couple of guys are interested. 

[A-man930]

A-Man

 

I will check with Whitbread on the ALH manifold next time I speak with him. Know he charges $100 for the manifold adapter plate and a couple of guys are interested.

Cool beans. I am intrigued by this "high-mount" manifold that I've seen in a few swaps now; I can't think of a reason not to have the turbo up as high as possible so long as the downpipe plumbing doesn't become a problem

[johnj92131]

The Ebay purchased turbo arrived from the UK in excellent condition!  Here it is mounted on the Stock AHU exhaust manifold.

 

Note to A-man930:  Is this turbo mount high enough for you?  You can just see the adapter.  Best part of this is that nothing had to be clocked or changed on the turbo.  Turbo output points straight at the existing Jeep intercooler and the exhaust will be a straight shot to the muffler.  A simple and very clean location.

 

 

 

Here is a top view of the turbo:

 

 

 

This shows the start of the motor mount:

 

 

 

Test fitting the motor into the engine bay.  Looks like lots of room.

 

 

 

Take a close look at the a/c compressor.  We have a small clearance issue.

 

 

 

The current plan is to move the engine over towards the passenger side for more clearance.  Whitbread is going to rotate the transmission mount 180 degrees and see how much extra room that give us.  The next problem was the stock oil filter adapter.  It is a known issue, so an oil filter adapter from an Audi has been ordered as a replacement.  It should arrive middle of next week.

[A-man930]

Note to A-man930:  Is this turbo mount high enough for you?  You can just see the adapter.  Best part of this is that nothing had to be clocked or changed on the turbo.  Turbo output points straight at the existing Jeep intercooler and the exhaust will be a straight shot to the muffler.  A simple and very clean location.

 

 

Its hard to tell how much higher this setup is vs. the VNT15, but yea it seems reasonably up and out of the way.  The only reason I'm concerned about this is that I fully expect my truck to find itself up to the door handles in mud/creek water at least once per "outing" (only once or twice a year these days).  The thermal shock has got to be quite intense in that scenario and I'd hate to crack a manifold or turbine housing :ack: .  If being mounted higher is attainable then I'm interested.   

 

What are you doing for EGR?  In the name of (supposed) better warm-up and economy, I'm considering keeping it and running Malone's "dynamic EGR" programming.  What are your thoughts?

 

Keep up the awesome updates!  

[DirtyComanche]

How's clearance from the oil pan to the axle?  As good or better than with a 4L?

[A-man930]

How's progress on this baby?! (needing some inspiration)

[johnj92131]

Progress stopped in mid May when I gave up my slot in the shop to find a transmission mount.  Found it quickly thanks to a Comanche Club member, but the truck was by then out of the shop for a while.  At the same time, Anita's chemotherapy got much more complicated with a weakened immune system. She spent 14 days in hospital from Memorial Day to June 27.  Her surgery on June 26 went very well. She is doing great now.  Monday, we got the pathology results from surgery.- no cancer found in the samples at all. Radiation starts in August.

 

Current plan on the Comanche is to pick up the finished truck in mid August.  So expect work to resume this week.  Will call Matt tomorrow to confirm.  I still need to order bigger injectors and who knows what other minor things.

[johnj92131]

Finally!! Time to report some progress/issues on the build. 

1) The Original Comanche drive shaft is about an inch too long now that we have replaced the AX-5 transmission with the longer AX-15.  So the drive shaft will have to be shortened next week

2) Purchased some 4.0 Cherokee engine mounts to make it easier to mount the AHU engine a bit forward in the engine compartment.  Easier than making them!  The ALH engine mounts are different than the AHU, so Matt has to make the custom mounts.  These mounts should be delivered next week.

3) The GTC1549VZ turbo as mounted on the AHU intake is in the way of the passenger side motor mount.  So Matt is going to test fit the turbo on a B5.5 Passat maniforld.  If that works, I will be looking for a B5.5 turbo manifold.

Hopefully next week I will have some progress on these issues to report.  The goal is to have the Comanche finished before the end of August and drive it back home to San Diego.