Lee21490 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 So long story short, I replaced the brake distribution block the other day, To a Willwood prop valve. Everything worked fine before, But now i can't for the life of me get the brakes to bleed. The extra bypass line to the rear was removed ages ago. I've tried the reg pump 3-5 times, open bleeder, close, repeat. Also tried using a Harbor freight Vaccuum bleeder, Which I didn't have much luck with. Brake pedal feels great with the engine off, As soon as i start the engine it falls to the floor. I have enough brakes to stop the truck, But barely. Master was replaced within the last 2~ years, Front/Rear brakes/calipers/etc were replaced this year. I've checked & double checked all connections for leaks, Doesn't appear to be any. Not sure whats going on.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom U Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just went through this. I litterly had to bleed 3 quarts through till I finally had Breaks. All I can suggest is keep bleeding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelbyluvv Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I ruined a brand new master cylinder by using the pump and hold method. You could have killed yours also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 With all do respect I have never heard of a pump 3-5 time and open the bleeder method.... :hmm: Remove reservoir top and fill with correct fluid... Starting at your farthest brake ( usually passenger rear) open the bleeder have a helper push the pedal to the floor and hold it.....close the bleeder....have helper let pedal up....open bleeder...have helper push pedal to floor and hold....close bleeder....let pedal up Repeat this until when open and you push the pedal you get a strong stream of clear fluid ( a chunk of hose and a clear pop bottle can be helpful here to save the mess) Once you get a strong clear stream tighten bleeder (with the pedal down) and move on to the next fartherst one....keep checking that your reservoir is full....after the last one let it sit for about 15 min (smoke em if you got em) with the top off the res...then fill it up and you are good to go... For you unsociable ones out there who have no friends to help them google "speed bleeders" . :MJ 1: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 With all do respect I have never heard of a pump 3-5 time and open the bleeder method.... :hmm: Remove reservoir top and fill with correct fluid... Starting at your farthest brake ( usually passenger rear) open the bleeder have a helper push the pedal to the floor and hold it.....close the bleeder....have helper let pedal up....open bleeder...have helper push pedal to floor and hold....close bleeder....let pedal up Repeat this until when open and you push the pedal you get a strong stream of clear fluid ( a chunk of hose and a clear pop bottle can be helpful here to save the mess) Once you get a strong clear stream tighten bleeder (with the pedal down) and move on to the next fartherst one....keep checking that your reservoir is full....after the last one let it sit for about 15 min (smoke em if you got em) with the top off the res...then fill it up and you are good to go... For you unsociable ones out there who have no friends to help them google "speed bleeders" . :MJ 1: . You're young aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91Pioneer Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 With all do respect I have never heard of a pump 3-5 time and open the bleeder method.... :hmm: That's the way I was taught and always done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 With all do respect I have never heard of a pump 3-5 time and open the bleeder method.... :hmm:That's the way I was taught and always done it. Well since it did not work for the OP...maybe he needs to try a different approach... While your googleing speed bleeder...Google Einsteins definition of insanity .... . :MJ 1: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megadan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just went through this. I litterly had to bleed 3 quarts through till I finally had Breaks. All I can suggest is keep bleeding Same with mine, and I had the load sensing valve and bypass in place. In the end I put about half a gallon of fluid through it before the mush went away. If you can get a pressure bleeder or a reverse bleeder it definitely makes a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big66440 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I bled the living crap out of mine before I realized I had a tiny leak on my double flares going into the valve. Good luck, hope you're able to get some results and enjoy your truck again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 With all do respect I have never heard of a pump 3-5 time and open the bleeder method.... :hmm: Remove reservoir top and fill with correct fluid... Starting at your farthest brake ( usually passenger rear) open the bleeder have a helper push the pedal to the floor and hold it.....close the bleeder....have helper let pedal up....open bleeder...have helper push pedal to floor and hold....close bleeder....let pedal up Repeat this until when open and you push the pedal you get a strong stream of clear fluid ( a chunk of hose and a clear pop bottle can be helpful here to save the mess) Once you get a strong clear stream tighten bleeder (with the pedal down) and move on to the next fartherst one....keep checking that your reservoir is full....after the last one let it sit for about 15 min (smoke em if you got em) with the top off the res...then fill it up and you are good to go... For you unsociable ones out there who have no friends to help them google "speed bleeders" . :MJ 1: . You're young aren't you? No, he's right. Pumping just aerates the brake juice. Some years ago I stopped by to say hello to a racing and AMX friend, who was the service manager at the Jeep deaalership when I bought my '88 Cherokee (and my '68 Javelin, for that matter). He was muttering about not being able to bleed the clutch on a Hornet he was repairing for one of the dealership's old customers. He was pumping and pumping, and then opening the bleeder -- and not getting anywhere. I had him do it the way YXMJ describes -- I worked the peddle, Joe opened and closed the bleeder when I told him to. Took about three minutes to get a clutch, maybe less. I was amazed -- Joe is a year older than I am and he had never seen it done that way. I learned from my grandfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 It always worked for me, but then again I always bench bled the master cylinder first. Now, I use a Mighty Vac and have for years. No need for a helper that way and you can monitor fluid condition and air bubbles yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Got a link to that particular "Mighty Vac" you speak of? *Edit: This one? http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV8000-Automotive-Test-Bleeding/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463522200&sr=8-1&keywords=mighty+vac+vacuum+pump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megadan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 This was my recent investment. Worth the money.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mvp-0103?seid=srese1&gclid=CPre7fWR4swCFQcLaQod3aQHKA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Got a link to that particular "Mighty Vac" you speak of? *Edit: This one? http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV8000-Automotive-Test-Bleeding/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463522200&sr=8-1&keywords=mighty+vac+vacuum+pump http://www.mityvac.com/pages/products_hvp.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee21490 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 With all do respect I have never heard of a pump 3-5 time and open the bleeder method.... :hmm:That's the way I was taught and always done it. Well since it did not work for the OP...maybe he needs to try a different approach... While your googleing speed bleeder...Google Einsteins definition of insanity .... . :MJ 1: . I've tried just about everything at this point. Even picked up a vacuum bleeder from the parts store yesterday, Still didnt work. I've done the Crack bleeder -> Press pedal down -> Close bleeder method The Pump -> Hold -> Crack bleeder -> Close bleeder -> Repeat method Even tried letting it gravity bleed... Starting to think maybe it might be the master? Brake pedal is starting to make a squeaking noise, not sure what from either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megadan Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 If the seals in the master went out, pull the master off the booster and see if you have any black residue or fine particles on the plunger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 If the seals in the master went out, pull the master off the booster and see if you have any black residue or fine particles on the plunger. And check the rod adjustment while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee21490 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 If the seals in the master went out, pull the master off the booster and see if you have any black residue or fine particles on the plunger. Pulled it, Everything looks fine on it. If the seals in the master went out, pull the master off the booster and see if you have any black residue or fine particles on the plunger. And check the rod adjustment while you're at it. No idea how to even adjust that, It was never touched & was working previously. I noticed that the line from the master -> Prop valve is slightly leaking at the fitting to the prop valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Don't leave this stone unturned. e unturned: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee21490 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Just went through this. I litterly had to bleed 3 quarts through till I finally had Breaks. All I can suggest is keep bleeding Same with mine, and I had the load sensing valve and bypass in place. In the end I put about half a gallon of fluid through it before the mush went away. If you can get a pressure bleeder or a reverse bleeder it definitely makes a huge difference. I've put 3/4 of a gallon through it now, Still no brakes. Don't leave this stone unturned. e unturned: Double checked it, The rod was correct length. If the seals in the master went out, pull the master off the booster and see if you have any black residue or fine particles on the plunger. Ended up swapping the master for a new one (Lifetime warranty, Why not?) Still same symptoms. I don't see any leaks, The fluid level never goes down.. Thinking of Re-Doing the 3 lines I replaced.. Maybe they're not airtight at the fittings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big66440 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Just curious but are you bench bleeding the master cylinder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee21490 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 Just curious but are you bench bleeding the master cylinder? Never hurts to ask, But yea i have bench bled the master. Twice with the old one, Then once when i swapped in the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee21490 Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 I'm still at a loss... Brake pedal still goes 90% to the floor before i start getting pressure. Ran another quart of brake fluid through it, No difference. Tried bleeding it with the front jacked up & then the rear jacked up, No difference. Inspected all the calipers / brake lines / Pads, Replaced the front drivers caliper because the rubber boot was shot, No difference. Only thing i havent touched yet is the new Willwood prop valve, I Don't see how that could possibly cause this issue though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 So, just how did you measure the booster to master cylinder rod adjustment? What if the piston isn't coming all the way back in the master? This isn't an "eyeball" measurement, but a precise measurement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee21490 Posted May 29, 2016 Author Share Posted May 29, 2016 A mix of tape measure and feel. Its adjusted so theres a little gap between the rod and the master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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