Minuit Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 It'll take a long time to warm up to its looks, but the reality is that the Jeep brand isn't the same as it was when the vehicles we know and love were designed. Now, Jeeps are road-going vehicles with comfort and road manners first and off-road ability and ease of modification second (or not at all.) If this wasn't the case, we wouldn't have front wheel drive Jeeps or computer simulated low range. However, I'm sure the new Cherokee will be an absolutely excellent car, but that doesn't make it a Jeep. I haven't seen one yet in person but my mind is staying open for now. Nothing will ever replace the MJ of course. . :MJ 1: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComancheKid45 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Not sure if I'm a fan, but I might be....The new Cherokee has a crawl ratio lower than a rubi. Its engine is far beyond anything else offered except for the Wrangler Pentastar. Great power if you want it, great mileage if you just want the base vehicle. It will blow the doors off everything in its price class for a 4x4 SUV....Honda, Toyota, Suburu, even Land Rover can't match it (not counting the supercharged Rover, but that's out of the price range). I think they may have hit the mark by jumping ahead a generation compared to the import challengers. Ford never had anything to compare even in the days of the early Explorer, definitely not now.....the Escape???? Give me a break.... I mean really, no import SUV never really stood a chance even compared to the Liby or the old XJ, now they are utterly left in the dust. Yeah its ugly, but sometimes even the ugly girl gets a date to the prom and has just as much fun afterwards that night. Not saying I like it yet, but this new Cherokee is light years beyond the competition. I don't think I could agree more with this. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Regardless how well equipped or 'capable' the KL is, I still cannot stand looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knever3 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Me three Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanche County Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 don't judge the new girl so soon.....I've had plenty of ugly girls I would've settled down with...timing was the issue, not them. Yeah, I didn't like looking at them all that much in the daylight, but dang they were fun after dark, and who gives a darn who was looking...I should have stuck with one or two of em, didn't work out, but not their fault really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Regardless how well equipped or 'capable' the KL is, I still cannot stand looking at it. I don't think I could agree more with this. Me four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 don't judge the new girl so soon.....I've had plenty of ugly girls I would've settled down with...timing was the issue, not them. Yeah, I didn't like looking at them all that much in the daylight, but dang they were fun after dark, and who gives a darn who was looking...I should have stuck with one or two of em, didn't work out, but not their fault really. . Moral of the story - when you're inside you're having so much fun you just don't care, and besides you can't see the ugly from there anyway? :rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 There are numerous cautions about using a locker in an independent suspension differential and I have no reason to discount them especially in a jeep created from a Fiat-produced car. How does this rear locker work? My google-fu is weak and I can't find an answer let alone one whose reliability I can rate. I can come up with plenty calling it a locker, but not what kind or how it works. There are those that argue that an LSD is technically a locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 There are numerous cautions about using a locker in an independent suspension differential and I have no reason to discount them especially in a jeep created from a Fiat-produced car. How does this rear locker work? My google-fu is weak and I can't find an answer let alone one whose reliability I can rate. I can come up with plenty calling it a locker, but not what kind or how it works. There are those that argue that an LSD is technically a locker. I have never heard such a thing. I do know that limited slip differentials have been used for decades in street applications. If I had to make a guess, it would be that independent suspensions might use lighter axles and CV joints (thus keeping unsprung weight to a minimum, good for street suspension performance and manufacturing cost reduction) that could be overstressed in an off-road application? What is the nature of the cautions you have heard, from what sources, and where can I find out more on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Just FYI on the new KL 4wd system. This vehicle does not use a simulated low range like the old Compass. There are 3 different 4wd systems available. An AWD unit, a selectable 4wd unit with mechanical low range, and a 4wd unit with mechanical low range and selectable rear locker. The way they get low range is through seperate planetary gearsets in each front and rear diff unit. The front transfer unit has a planetary that when engaged offers low range to both front wheels, same for the rear. Then the rear has a selectable E-locker if equipped. This info is straight from Chryslers 2014 New technology training course I did back in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchemodder Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Its all well and good. But I will stick with my '87 MJ. I changed the oil in my Wife's 2012 4Runner for the first time this weekend (no more free dealer changes). I was introduced to the new oil filter style which just changes the element. I tried to figure out the rationale on going away from the canister style; i'm sure there are many, but easy of change was not one of them. That sealed the deal for me: No vehicles newer than '87 for myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't know about a 4Runner, but the oil change on the new JK with the 3.6 Pentastar is super easy. The filter element is changed from the top - no more crawling under, loosening the hard-to-get-to filter cannister with a chain wrench and slopping oil all over the floor when you unscrew it. I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comanchemodder Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't know about a 4Runner, but the oil change on the new JK with the 3.6 Pentastar is super easy. The filter element is changed from the top - no more crawling under, loosening the hard-to-get-to filter cannister with a chain wrench and slopping oil all over the floor when you unscrew it. I love it. WOOT! New Jeep, here I come!! BTW the 4runner requires removal of the skid-plate. A different skid plate than the one which needs to be removed to drain the oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
az comanches Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Had Fox business channel on last Thursday or Friday morning. Was'nt paying much attention to the conversation. The topic was Chrysler stock or something related to sales forecasts. Towards the end of the segment the words Jeep pickup came out of one of the talking heads mouth. Started paying closer attention after I heard that, they did'nt go into any details though. Still was kind of intriging just to hear that rumor being expressed. Watched for a couple hours after that but did'nt hear anymore on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseMJ Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I'll wait 5 years when I can buy a used one for 5 k since they don't hold there value anymore. Time will tell...if the touch screen still works after 25 years...might be OK. The technology will be well obsolete in 10 yrs. and fixing things won't be DIY anymore. It'll take a long time to warm up to its looks, I think it goes right along with vehicles of the day without looking squared off like a Hummer. It looks like a crossover and truly is with a Dart base. Just because a girl doesn't look just like YOUR girl, does not mean she's not a good girl. Its all well and good. But I will stick with my '87 MJ. No vehicles newer than '87 for myself.... Now that sounds like it came from a dinosaur like me. I like old fashioned...I'm a senior citizen for christsake...but I'm using a new tablet right now. Like I said, time will tell. I'm all for new stuff, but gadgets break...not that a XJ/MJ is perfect...there is just so much more to break with any new technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 There are numerous cautions about using a locker in an independent suspension differential and I have no reason to discount them especially in a jeep created from a Fiat-produced car. How does this rear locker work? My google-fu is weak and I can't find an answer let alone one whose reliability I can rate. I can come up with plenty calling it a locker, but not what kind or how it works. There are those that argue that an LSD is technically a locker. I have never heard such a thing. I do know that limited slip differentials have been used for decades in street applications. If I had to make a guess, it would be that independent suspensions might use lighter axles and CV joints (thus keeping unsprung weight to a minimum, good for street suspension performance and manufacturing cost reduction) that could be overstressed in an off-road application? What is the nature of the cautions you have heard, from what sources, and where can I find out more on the subject? It is a common discussion in the IFS world so I can't see how the same would not be true for an IRS. You can find numerous discussions regarding the topic on Pirate and many others. I was wondering if the"locker" was actually a limited-slip differential (LSD) and not a true locker at all and there is no info that I can find on the matter. I just don't trust company P.R. completely. A locker increases stress on all of the unit's components in any application not just IFS/IRS. It appears that, as you mentioned, most OEM IFS/IRS systems are built inherently weaker. What kind of diff housing material are we talking about? Ring gear and pinion size? Half-shaft diameter? 8 separate joints on the 4 shafts alone and of what size? An LSD will act as a safety valve at some point and release before maximum carnage in many cases depending on its bias. An open diff will not even get in that trouble. A true locker will not. That pressure on the components increases greatly in off-roading when the suspensions are articulated or when one tire is in a bind, say stuck between two rocks. gh performance IRS street cars will never have to face the same challenges. Such street IRS's geometry would make it much easier to keep them alive even with a locker where a locker would be like dynamite in the off-road situations mentioned. IFS to SFA axle swaps are very common for most every IFS application due to the inherent lack of strength in the factory IFS designs for off-roading. You can find complete kits on the market for swapping from IFS to SFA for several models. I have cannibalized axle sets for re-sale to those doing such a swap several times. I have sold axle sets to go under Chevy trucks, Taco's & 4runners ,Nissan Frontiers, and X-terras. I am not talking about D60 fronts and such either. These were just D44/D44 or D44/AMCM23 sets from under FSJ's. There are some pretty remarkable IFS/SRA and even IFS/IRS off-road rigs out there but the top performers are extremely expensive customs and do not use either OEM components or geometry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The rear locker in this unit is actuated by using a sliding collar while in low range only. Similar to the front axle disconnect on our Dana 30's. There does not appear to be any give to it when actuated. The info I'm giving is not PR, it is internal only info used to train us dealer techs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The rear locker in this unit is actuated by using a sliding collar while in low range only. Similar to the front axle disconnect on our Dana 30's. There does not appear to be any give to it when actuated. The info I'm giving is not PR, it is internal only info used to train us dealer techs. Cool. Any word on diff housing material/strength or ring/pinion size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I have no info on the housing, but here are some other stats. gear ratio 2:73 low range 2:91 ring gear diameter 6.5 inch /165mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 I have no info on the housing, but here are some other stats. gear ratio 2:73 low range 2:91 ring gear diameter 6.5 inch /165mm This illustrates my concern about this vehicle. FIAT can advertise it doing all sorts of jeeply-things but for how long? 6.5" ring gear? Turning locked tires potentially with one bound up? The Dana 35 is considered very weak in part due to its 7.65" ring gear size, which is considered very small. The KJ used an 8.25. The JK uses an 8.5" ring gear. It is not looking like the new chero romeo is going to win any longevity prizes if you use it as a jeep. I will bet that they are counting on no one figuring that out until after the warranty period. Look how poor the FIAT 500 is reliability-wise. That is the main reason they failed in the U.S. the last time that they were here. Fix It Again Tony lives on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The proof will be in the pudding then, won't it. Sounds like there just might be a strong retro Jeep movement coming sometime in the future... might be a good idea to pick up an old Cherokee or 2 now while they are still cheap and plentiful. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 The proof will be in the pudding then, won't it. Sounds like there just might be a strong retro Jeep movement coming sometime in the future... might be a good idea to pick up an old Cherokee or 2 now while they are still cheap and plentiful. :) I think it may already be too late in some areas...prices are creeping up. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 I looked at one in person the other day. We went on a little road trip in her '14 Patriot. Not much of a difference looking only skin deep. They look to be same size inside and too me, they seem even more car-like then the Patriot! But I didn't see a trail hawk model. Parked next to Patriots, And Compasses, they blend right in. To me, I don't know why the average buyer would consider the Cherokee over the others. Maybe the option of the 6 cylinder will sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Although some of us my not like it it looks like Jeep hit the nail on the head when it comes to completing their mission of selling new jeeps: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/29/jeep-cherokee-sales-rival-wrangler-after-two-months/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl29%7Csec3_lnk4%26pLid%3D424937 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I'm not surprised. I have yet to see one on the road up here yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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