LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 This is copy/pasted from another one of my posts on another forum, but I figured it was good info to post here as well. I got a few things in today from Hesco. :D BRX Hose Kit: Hesco High-Flow Waterpump: Hesco High-Flow T-Stat Housing: Mr. Gasket High Performance 180deg. T-Stat: Also have the CSF 3-Core Rad. already. Well I was able to work on it a bit today. I know some of this is pretty basic, but I decided to document it as much as I could. First we are going to do the radiator removal. You will need to remove you front header panel to get to the radiator. To do this first you will need to remove a few pieces from your grill. You first need to remove the 4 screws that hold the headlight bezel on. You than need to remove the bezel, and the side marker. Once you have those removed you will need to remove the side marker bezel as well to gain access to the 2 bolts that hold the header panel on. You will need to remove 1 screw, and 2 bolts from the side marker bezel. You than will be able to remove the 2 nuts that hold on the header panel. Next you will need to remove several bolts and nuts from the radiator support so you can remove the header panel. Their are 3 large bolts on each side, as well as 2 nuts in the center. Their are also 4 nuts hidden on the back side of the header panel at the top. These need to be removed as well. And lastly, their is a single bolt hidden on the bottom side that holds the bottom in. This can be accessed from underneath. Once you have all the nuts and bolts removed, you can pull the header panel out and than remove the radiator support. You do not need to remove the aux. fan (however disconnect it) as it will pull out with the support. You now have access to the radiator. To remove it you will need to undo the upper and lower radiator hose, as well as both transmission lines. You will also need to remove the rubber isolator on the top of the old radiator so you can use it on the new one. Their are than 1 nut on each side that holds the radiator to the ac condenser. Once you remove these you can pull the radiator out. Here is a comparison of my old CSF for the closed loop system beside the new CSF for the open loop system. Notice the only real difference is the filler neck. Also notice that the thermo switch is on the radiator on the old one, and their is no spot for it on the new one (we'll talk about that later). I also at this time decided I was going to change the t-stat housing to a new Hesco high flow housing as well as change the t-stat. To remove the t-stat housing you need to disconnect all the hoses (3) going to it, as well as remove the 2 bolts that hold it on. Once you have it removed, you need to scrape off the old gasket and remove any RTV that was their prior. A razor blade works well. When installing the new t-stat and gasket, I used a bit of RTV to make sure I got a good seal. I than installed the new Hesco high-flow t-stat housing. Notice that the new Hesco unit has hole at the top. This is due to the fact that the newer open loop system's from the factory have a thermo switch for the aux. fan. I have yet to decide what I am going to do with the aux. fan (put it on a switch, or use a thermo switch in the t-stat housing), so I placed a plug in it for the time being that can easily be removed it need be. I next changed the water pump witch I will document at a later time. Now is a good time since you have the radiator out to do this job since you have room. I will update this post with a detailed write-up on how to change the water pump at a later time. Next I reinstalled the new CSF 3-Core radiator for the open loop setup. And than installed the new lower BRX radiator hose. This was honestly probably the hardest part thus far of the install. The BRX hoses are much thicker and thus less playable. I ended up getting out some hose lube and it than slipped right on. I ran out of day light, so I will update the rest of the install at a later time with pics. I was able to finish things up today. First off I ripped off the hose setup off of the '96 for the heater control valve etc. Here is a picture of the difference between the 2. The extra hoses on the old one go to the pressure bottle which has now been eliminated. I had some problems with the Hesco High-Flow T-stat housing sitting so close to the valve cover. I know Hesco sells a spacer for a few bucks, but I decided that I would just force the hose on and clamp it best I could. Notice the hose clamp on the upper Rad. hose is just a bit higher than I'd like. I may down the road get the spacer and put it in thier. Here is a picture of the new heater control valve installed. This part is a must for the conversion. I stole it off of our '96, but it can be purchased at the dealer if need be. The part number is 56005900. And lastly a pic of how I routed the hoses. I did notice that the hoses between the early (closed loop) and the hoses between the newer (open loop) are a bit different. I had to route my hoses over the top of the AC pump, whereas before they were routed behind it. I don't know if it was due to my BRX hoses, or if this is the way they are. Oh how sexy those blue hoses are... :thumbsup: Thier are 2 things that I have yet to address. 1) Overflow bottle. I currently just have a hose running to the ground. I have an overflow bottle on order and will get it installed ASAP. 2) Aux. fan. I plan on using a stock thermo switch on the t-stat housing to run it. At the moment I have the hole plugged. And the total cost of this project. CSF 3 Core Raditator - $180.00 Hesco High Flow Waterpump - $150.00 Hesco High Flow T-Stat Housing - $33.00 T-Stat - $13.00 BRX Hose Kit - $150.00 Overflow Bottle - $36.00 Clamps - $12.00 Fluid - $12.00 Misc. & Shipping - $24.00 Total - $610.00 I saved myself probally $50-$80 being able to steal parts off of the '96 for the heater control valve. I know many of you will say what a huge waiste of money. My responce is I should NEVEr had an overheating problem again. I know this project can be done for MUCH less as well; I just decided to go all out. Future plans: Temp Sensor w/Gauge Hesco T-Stat Housing Spacer Aux. Fan setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ.rusty Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 hey just wonding if you ever finished the other part of your write up. i was thinking on doing the open loop also. maybe not the BRX hoses tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ.rusty Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 hey just wonding if you ever finished the other part of your write up. i was thinking on doing the open loop also. maybe not the BRX hoses tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 BRX hasn't been in business for awhile and the hoses are not available any longer anyways... :fs1: As to "finishing" it, yeah it's been finished for the most part. Though I havn't done much to this XJ for awhile as we've been building the 2 MJ's and the wife's XJ more it seems than I've got to spend time wrenching on this XJ. I did play around with some electric fan setups and I have to say that a good factory fan with a good clutch puts out way more air than any electric fans I've been able to get my hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belto Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 what will that tstat housing spacer do? whats the difference or advantage ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 what will that tstat housing spacer do? whats the difference or advantage ? No real advantages for the normal person. As you can see the below pic, the hose clamp on the center hose is up higher. The BRX hoses are much "thicker" than normal hoses so I ran into some clearance issues getting the hose on due to the fact it was hitting the head/valve cover. The spacer simply spaces the t-stat housing further out so I could get my BRX hose on better and get the hose clamp further down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990 Pioneer 4x4 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Cool write-up, but what is the difference between the open and closed system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Closed system is sealed and pressurized, while the open system is vented to an overflow bottle. The pressure allows the engine to run a bit hotter, which in turn provides more efficiency/power. It can be a temperamental system though. The pressure bottle is known to sprout leaks after 20 years of service. Also, the 87-90 Jeeps aren't the only vehicles to use a pressurized system. My neighbor's Caddy Deville uses a similar set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrapp Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 is the hesco waterpump worth the money?i replaced my w/p with a mopar one about 10 years ago when i worked at the jeep/dodge dealership and it just noticed started to leak when i was replacing my belt and alternator and had thought about upgrading as well.i have also done the closed to open conversion as well except i removed the heater control valve as well.i have never used and hesco pieces and was wondering if it's worth the money.if it is i may get one for the g/f's 95 grand as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 is the hesco waterpump worth the money?i replaced my w/p with a mopar one about 10 years ago when i worked at the jeep/dodge dealership and it just noticed started to leak when i was replacing my belt and alternator and had thought about upgrading as well.i have also done the closed to open conversion as well except i removed the heater control valve as well.i have never used and hesco pieces and was wondering if it's worth the money.if it is i may get one for the g/f's 95 grand as well. I feel like it was money well spent. I'd also recommend if you do the Hesco WP than also go with the Hesco Hi-Flow T-Stat housing as it's not much more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1987Comanche Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 The radiator on my '90 4.0 sprung a leak and I'm seriously considering this conversion. I did some research and I have 2 questions I didn't see addressed: 1. Is the header panel/radiator support different between closed & open systems in order to accommodate the filler neck and pressure cap on the open system? It looks like the newer trucks have a bend in them at the filler neck to accommodate the neck. 2. What do you use for an overflow tank and where do you mount it? It looks like the new style overflow tank wouldn't work as it would interfere with the ignition wire going from the coil to the distributor. It looks like a later model washer fluid tank might be a decent substitute as a coolant overflow tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 I have an "open" rad with the cap in my 88 and I kept the closed system so it physically fits just fine. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche87 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 what would be the cheapest way of doing the conversion. i know i can't really spend money but that seems alot for the conversion. what stuff can u leave alone but still convert it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 why do you need to convert? something wrong with the system you have now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comanche87 Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 not yet but thought id ask if when i need to replace my radiator. its not looking as good as it used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 feel free to replace it anytime you'd like with a late model unit. there's no need to do the complete conversion. I have a radiator cap in my 88 yet still use the closed system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 The radiator on my '90 4.0 sprung a leak and I'm seriously considering this conversion. I did some research and I have 2 questions I didn't see addressed: 1. Is the header panel/radiator support different between closed & open systems in order to accommodate the filler neck and pressure cap on the open system? It looks like the newer trucks have a bend in them at the filler neck to accommodate the neck. 2. What do you use for an overflow tank and where do you mount it? It looks like the new style overflow tank wouldn't work as it would interfere with the ignition wire going from the coil to the distributor. It looks like a later model washer fluid tank might be a decent substitute as a coolant overflow tank. 1) I have done the conversion on several XJ's and MJ's and have never had an issue with the header panel. I use the CSF radiators and have never had a clearance issue to date yet. 2) I picked up a universal metal catch can from Summit. I just have it sitting off to the side (pass side) mounted with the hose running into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 what would be the cheapest way of doing the conversion. i know i can't really spend money but that seems alot for the conversion. what stuff can u leave alone but still convert it? I went way overboard with the conversion buying the best (aka most expensive) parts on the market at the time. You can do the conversion for a lot cheaper. Really the only "needed" parts would be the new radiator, the new heater valve (included part number in original post), and a few misc hoses to go to the heater valve and heater core. I honestly do not see why someone would convert to an open system and still use the pressure bottle. It seems like that totally defeats the purpose of doing the conversion. Just buy the $30 heater valve and get a few hoses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 If you're referring to mine, it's still a closed system. I needed a new radiator and figured the cap would make it easier to fill. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopwrd340 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 pete i just put a open radiator in mine my son was supposed to grt me a closed one from pick a part but came back with a new one that was never hooked up in the engine bay but anyways does it lose much coolant like this i am going to leave it like this for a while till i get the rest of the parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 mine doesn't lose any coolant at all. I don't understand your question. some punctuation might help. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopwrd340 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 just something i never learned i quit in 8th grade :ack: and went to work anyways mine has a open rad in it now i just got it running yesterday and drove it for the first time in 6 months :banana: :banana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 i've done this conversion a few times .. decent rad at the wreckers - $30 to $60 bucks .. 6 or 7 feet from a spool of 3/4" heater hose - probably $10 .. new hose clamps - $10 .. an updated cooling system complete for well under a $100 use a good sized mountain dew bottle zip tied to the rad support as an overflow bottle .. get rid of the heater valve, works great .. the only trouble i ever had with this conversion is those stupid connectors for the tranny cooler .. they always leak, i just cut them off and double hose clamp any rubber to metal connections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrapp Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 yeah,i done away with my heater control valve as well.i've put 3 of the thingd on in 10 years.grand cherokee zjs don't use the valves anyway,they're really not that important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWLONGSHOT Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 i've done this conversion a few times .. decent rad at the wreckers - $30 to $60 bucks .. 6 or 7 feet from a spool of 3/4" heater hose - probably $10 .. new hose clamps - $10 .. an updated cooling system complete for well under a $100 use a good sized mountain dew bottle zip tied to the rad support as an overflow bottle .. get rid of the heater valve, works great .. the only trouble i ever had with this conversion is those stupid connectors for the tranny cooler .. they always leak, i just cut them off and double hose clamp any rubber to metal connections Anthony, If you read my recent writeup on a different pressure bottle. Kinda makes mine a hybrid open/close system. For me it made more sense as I recently purchased and installed a closed 3core radiator. Anyway I mention it as I bought a overflow bottle form summit, made by dorman #100-603 for 11$!! You can ditch that mt dew bottle!! CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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