Minuit Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Borgeson appears to have the market cornered for new (not remanufactured, new) Saginaw-style steering boxes, and as the owner of an MJ which lives on the street, I'm big-time interested in that. They get good reviews (claims of "feels like rack and pinion") in the muscle car circles, and I see at least two highly positive reviews from people who've put them on TJs. My question - has anyone here coughed up the $500 for one? They promise "modern steering feel" - I know what that is, and I know my truck ain't anywhere close to it right now, but I do know that I would happily pay $500 for it to have it. It mounts with the 4-bolt pattern rather than the 3-bolt pattern our trucks use, but that 4th bolt hole appears to not foul on anything and just in free air. They have the same 12.7:1 ratio as the ZJ box (I have a worn out one in my truck now, it's a minor but noticeable improvement) and all other key dimensions appear the same (pressure/return port size, input/output shaft size) - one thing that I'm not sure of is fluid demand, but my pump is tired after 193k miles so I'd probably be changing it at the same time as the box anyway. If nobody else sees any reason I shouldn't, I might just be the guinea pig after payday next week. https://www.borgeson.com/Borgeson-Street-and-Performance-Series-12.7-1-Ratio.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limeyjeeper Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 I have a Redhead gears steering box. It works well. It is $316 plus a $150 core. It is a great product but for $50 less than a new Borgeson (if you don't have a good core)I would go that route if I did it again. Borgeson make really good products. However it will never be as good as rack and pinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 do those muscle cars have our invert Y steering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 I’ve run a Borgeson on my YJ until I jumped up to a PSC big bore box to handle 35’s. It was a good box but felt like a new wrangler and wasn’t quite like our wk2. Went with the Borgeson after going through probably 3 box store reman boxes. I must say, on my last MJ I ran a stock box remaned by PSC, the iron man off-road double sheer steering brace, ironman track bar (stock geometry and location but uses a double sheer bracket) and new moog ZJ steering linkage. In conjunction with the track bar axle side bracket replacement, black magic arp bolt and flag nut setup, nos upcountry sway bar and metal cloak control arms. I have to say, the steering was better than a new stock JL. And that was on 6” of lift with 33’s. It really was unbelievable and the steering quality never diminished in my 2 years of daily driving it all over the horrendous roads here in island. On my latest build, I’ve replicated most of those components but went with a quick turn red head box (12:1 iirc). Redhead is definitely one of the top rebuilders out there and make better than new boxes imo as they rebuild them to tighter tolerances than original. PSC will also sell you one of their reman stock boxes which is a very comparable quality but you have to call to request it as they don’t have them listed. What I’ve personally experienced though, is that to get close to R&P feel, several other “upgrades” are needed. Fortunately, those “upgrades” can be done where they do not interfere with a clean original build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted August 12, 2023 Author Share Posted August 12, 2023 Follow up information: The only deviation from stock I have is that I have added "The Cure" the tie rod end boot. Everything else is just stock replacement parts with about 15,000 miles on it. Steering damper is an OME unit which made a surprising amount of difference in the steering feel. I am very much interested in the best steering feel I can get. Even if I have to replace some "already replaced" parts to do it. My truck has about a 30 degree slice of on-center play where turning the wheel does a little bit, but not much, and yes, I did adjust the box per the FSM procedure before putting it in. It's just a clapped out junkyard unit with unknown mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 I can definitely recommend the setup I ran above. It was fantastic steering, even my wife loved driving it as it felt no different than our forester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75sv1 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 I like my WJ Big brake cross over steering. I am on a stock box, not rebuilt. Don't know if it had been replaced before I got this XJ. I do have frame stiffeners, Bad Dad Fab hidden winch bumper with the gear box brace, and Stinky Fab's OTK tack bar and track bar brace. I did have WJ Big Brakes and the GM 1-ton cross over steering on another XJ. Also, a stock box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schardein Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 When I needed a box for my CJ, my search ended with https://www.powersteering.com This is a "Mom & Pop" shop, and all they do is steering boxes. Turns out they are local to me, so I went to visit and the owner invited me to tour his shop. I had my stock CJ box rebuilt, and switched the stock 20:1 ratio to a 16:13:1 variable ratio. The box has been in since 2019 and has seen a lot of street and trail use. The CJ steered well before the replacement, but the rebuilt box and different ratio did make a subtle improvement to steering feel. The work isn't cheap and if you aren't local, shipping adds to the cost. Even if you decide to go with a different company or vendor, it is beneficial to spend some time exploring the website. They offer a lot of good technical knowledge, and armed with that knowledge, you can ask intelligent questions of other companies/vendors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mark Posted August 15, 2023 Share Posted August 15, 2023 I sent my steering box off to https://www.westtexasoffroad.com/ they did a great job and I had them port my box for a hydraulic assist, in case I need/want to go there. My box was in really bad shape before I sent it down and now it works great! I think there are a number of places that can rebuild these things, you just need to decide which one fits the bill for you.. BTW what is "the cure" steering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 13 hours ago, Big_Mark said: I sent my steering box off to https://www.westtexasoffroad.com/ they did a great job and I had them port my box for a hydraulic assist, in case I need/want to go there. My box was in really bad shape before I sent it down and now it works great! I think there are a number of places that can rebuild these things, you just need to decide which one fits the bill for you.. BTW what is "the cure" steering? https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/R2008.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mark Posted August 16, 2023 Share Posted August 16, 2023 Thanks for the link! Now I know where my money is going.... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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