My lift is off kilter

[CO MJ]

I just finished installing Rusty's 4.5" spring pack kit, and my rear end is quite a bit higher (eyeballed maybe 4-5 inches, worlds worst panorama to show the difference below) than the front. PO installed a ford 8.8 in the back with the axle over the springs, dana 30 in front, not sure if that matters since the center of axles are the same height off the ground since the tire radius is the same front/back and axle diameters are pretty close.

Wondering if my shackles might be the reason. I can't find a solid answer on what's stock. Mine are about 4.5 inches center to center. They also sit at quite a low angle to the frame, not sure if that's correct either, photo attached.

If someone can confirm if this is what I should have expected from this kit, that would be great, as well as advice for making things a bit more level. Wouldn't mind an inch, maybe two for hauling motorcycles and camping gear, but right now is just too much.

Thanks!

 

[fiatslug87]

4.5” is a stock shackle.

what’s the rear shock mount distance at current ride height?

[CO MJ]

4 minutes ago, fiatslug87 said:

4.5” is a stock shackle.

 

Pretty sure I have stock ones then. After some searching I see the shackle angle is completely wrong. Wondering if I take a bottle jack between the frame and the springs and push it out if it might cam over and sit where it's supposed to?

[fiatslug87]

Did you tighten everything with full weight (tires on the ground)?

[Airborne Janitor]

Your shackle angle is completely out of whack. They should be pointed towards the rear if the vehicle, not the front. Are your springs the right size, they're not XJ springs are they?

[Airborne Janitor]

Compare the length of your new springs to the old ones, measuring from eye to eye of the bushings. They should be close in distance. 

[ghetdjc320]

Pinion angle is also quite bad but is likely going hand in hand with the spring problem. Loosen the spring and shackle bolts then set it back down on the ground and see what happens. Perhaps also double check your part numbers for those springs

[motownXJdad]

those gotta be XJ springs on there, theyre like 5 inches shorter than MJ springs right?

[CO MJ]

 

2 hours ago, fiatslug87 said:

Did you tighten everything with full weight (tires on the ground)?

Per the instructions I torqued the ubolts and shock mounts while on stands, and was saving the leaf spring bolts for after I dropped it

 

1 hour ago, Airborne Janitor said:

Compare the length of your new springs to the old ones, measuring from eye to eye of the bushings. They should be close in distance. 

Old were 53, new are 51.5. Seems close enough that the old ones might be just relaxed, but I also believe these are the incorrect springs.

 

11 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Pinion angle is also quite bad but is likely going hand in hand with the spring problem. Loosen the spring and shackle bolts then set it back down on the ground and see what happens. Perhaps also double check your part numbers for those springs

 

Good call. Googled the number on my spring and found this thread https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/comanche-leaf-and-shackle.2973769/ . No resolution, but I have the same number on my springs, and it looks like they may be for a 3.5 inch lift. Will shoot them a message and see if that's the case before I attempt any fix.

[CO MJ]

14 hours ago, motownXJdad said:

those gotta be XJ springs on there, theyre like 5 inches shorter than MJ springs right?

 

14 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Pinion angle is also quite bad but is likely going hand in hand with the spring problem. Loosen the spring and shackle bolts then set it back down on the ground and see what happens. Perhaps also double check your part numbers for those springs

 

Got a reply from Rustys this morning, they say the springs are correct. I guess I will have to try to pop them back out to where they are supposed to be. If I remove the shackle bolt, I don't think I'll ever get it back in though. They were hard enough to get installed in the first place with the shackle all the way over like it is now.

 

Any suggestions?

[75sv1]

My thought is the springs are not kranged, or loaded from the maker. So, the arch is to much. With time, it might level out. I had that issue with a set of RC rear springs. It took about 3 years for them to settle. They were 4.5" lift springs. They were well above 6 inches of lift. Yours look way above that. Did you send a picture to Rusty's?

[ghetdjc320]

IMO either those shackles are bound up in the wrong position or there is simply too much arch on those springs/wrong spring. Out of curiosity, are those new springs from Rustys? They look used in the pics. 

[CO MJ]

13 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

IMO either those shackles are bound up in the wrong position or there is simply too much arch on those springs/wrong spring. Out of curiosity, are those new springs from Rustys? They look used in the pics. 

 

They're new, they were not shipped in a box or with any kind of protection so they were a little beat up on arrival. 

 

18 minutes ago, 75sv1 said:

My thought is the springs are not kranged, or loaded from the maker. So, the arch is to much. With time, it might level out. I had that issue with a set of RC rear springs. It took about 3 years for them to settle. They were 4.5" lift springs. They were well above 6 inches of lift. Yours look way above that. Did you send a picture to Rusty's?

 

I don't think I can just leave it the way it is and not expect the shackles to be smashing into my frame though. I haven't measured, but it's likely 8 inches or so, super off looking in person, pic does no justice. I am going to follow up with a pic of the shackle angle and see what they think. 

[75sv1]

I agree, the present setup is bad. Not good to run it. The Ford 8.8 will give or take 1/2 of lift. On my XJ, it add 1/2", so it does good with the 2" front coils, and 1-1/2 Crown Up countries.  Eitherway, Rusty's need to make a correction on this. My, 4.5 lift did not look that bad.

[CO MJ]

31 minutes ago, 75sv1 said:

I agree, the present setup is bad. Not good to run it. The Ford 8.8 will give or take 1/2 of lift. On my XJ, it add 1/2", so it does good with the 2" front coils, and 1-1/2 Crown Up countries.  Eitherway, Rusty's need to make a correction on this. My, 4.5 lift did not look that bad.

 

I sent them a photo and they just told me to put some weight in the bed and drive around, sounds like a terrible idea to me so I've asked them to clarify. There's one video of another guy installing the same lift, and his shackles lined up at the correct angle, so I think I agree, something funky going on here. I think either I need to unbolt them, and try to hook back up with shackles in correct position, or I have the wrong springs and I won't be able to do that.

[75sv1]

I was suggested to put weight on the back of my XJ, as I was really high with new springs. Still, my shackles had the right angle to them. If you can fix that, then possibly a lot of weight in the back would help.  Like I posted before, mine took about 2-3 years. They haven't gone down any more in the last 2-3 years. 

[Big_Mark]

I agree with the others, it looks like the new springs are not the correct overall length.

I suggest measuring the stock springs, eye (bolt sleeve to bolt sleeve) to eye to get an overall spring length for a stock Comanche spring.

Then (huge PITA I know) take the same measurement from the new springs. They should be really close to the same lengths (eye to eye) if not do the maths then ask Rusty's if the spring length you receive is the correct length for Comanche lift springs. is correct.

My guess is a manufacturing mix up occurred.

 

[Andy in Pa]

24 minutes ago, Big_Mark said:

I agree with the others, it looks like the new springs are not the correct overall length.

I suggest measuring the stock springs, eye (bolt sleeve to bolt sleeve) to eye to get an overall spring length for a stock Comanche spring.

Then (huge PITA I know) take the same measurement from the new springs. They should be really close to the same lengths (eye to eye) if not do the maths then ask Rusty's if the spring length you receive is the correct length for Comanche lift springs. is correct.

My guess is a manufacturing mix up occurred.

 

I agree with checking this measurement, you have to measure the true length though, by holding the tape measure along the leaf spring.  If you  just measure eye-to-eye, it will be way short because the arch of the springs. 

 

Another question I have relates to the center pin on the new springs.  Is the head of the center pin on the top surface of the springs or the bottom surface?  If bottom, they are XJ springs, set up for SOA like factory.  If top, they are MJ springs.  

[Big_Mark]

51 minutes ago, Andy in Pa said:

I agree with checking this measurement, you have to measure the true length though, by holding the tape measure along the leaf spring.  If you  just measure eye-to-eye, it will be way short because the arch of the springs. 

 

Another question I have relates to the center pin on the new springs.  Is the head of the center pin on the top surface of the springs or the bottom surface?  If bottom, they are XJ springs, set up for SOA like factory.  If top, they are MJ springs.  

Andy if he measures the way you describe his new springs are going to measure longer because of the lift (top spring measured flat will be 3-5" longer than stock) eye to eye is the way to measure here as that is the cause of the shackle position.
Good call on the SOA vs SUA pin position, that's worth looking into.

[howeitsdone]

Someone just had this problem last week on one of the Facebook groups. Turned out to be user error but he didn't share the solution. I just messaged him and I'll let you know what he says. The Rusty's are the correct size, and the main leaf is not longer than stock. Confirmed with measurements along the leaf.

[Airborne Janitor]

If you have access to a press maybe you can pull the pack apart and "de-arch" the springs. That's my plan with the current set of springs I'm running that are 3" too high. Pull out the packs, lay them upside down and weigh them down with something? Drive on top of them in a Honda Civic? Seriously though, if it were me and I didn't have a press I'd pull the packs and take them to your closest spring shop and have them adjust them for you. Looks like Krusty's quality control hasn't improved much in 20 years....

[CO MJ]

3 hours ago, Andy in Pa said:

I agree with checking this measurement, you have to measure the true length though, by holding the tape measure along the leaf spring.  If you  just measure eye-to-eye, it will be way short because the arch of the springs. 

 

Another question I have relates to the center pin on the new springs.  Is the head of the center pin on the top surface of the springs or the bottom surface?  If bottom, they are XJ springs, set up for SOA like factory.  If top, they are MJ springs.  

 

Measurements above, new ones are about an inch and a half shorter but are much more curved. Alignment pin was on top of the springs.

 

2 hours ago, Big_Mark said:

Andy if he measures the way you describe his new springs are going to measure longer because of the lift (top spring measured flat will be 3-5" longer than stock) eye to eye is the way to measure here as that is the cause of the shackle position.
Good call on the SOA vs SUA pin position, that's worth looking into.

 

1 hour ago, howeitsdone said:

Someone just had this problem last week on one of the Facebook groups. Turned out to be user error but he didn't share the solution. I just messaged him and I'll let you know what he says. The Rusty's are the correct size, and the main leaf is not longer than stock. Confirmed with measurements along the leaf.

 

Thanks! I have a feeling the answer is smush the springs into the right place lol

[Eagle]

4 hours ago, howeitsdone said:

Someone just had this problem last week on one of the Facebook groups. Turned out to be user error but he didn't share the solution. I just messaged him and I'll let you know what he says. The Rusty's are the correct size, and the main leaf is not longer than stock. Confirmed with measurements along the leaf.

 

Well, that's your problem. In order for the shackle angle to be correct when you put in lift springs, the main leaf HAS TO BE longer than the OEM main leaf. What you need is the eye-to-eye distance, at curb weight, to be the same. That means the main leaf length measured along the arch has to be longer.

[75sv1]

I recently put on OME 3-1/2 springs on my 2001 XJ. They are on there temporarily as it is getting a 4-link. The stock shackle was way to short. I did have a 'spare' IRO' boomerang shackle. I had to go to the +1 holes, so the springs would fit. So, about MJ length. Don't know if a longer shackle length, would put it on the right side or not. Yes, the height would be really high. Then stack a bunch of weight, and ride around for a while. Not sure, but a possible solution.

[ghetdjc320]

Is agree with @Eagle . Your main leaf is not right. You can put all the weight in the world back there, it isn’t going to compensate for a short main leaf. As for the overall lift height, there is far too much free arch in those springs. You have 5 main leafs in that pack and no overload from what I can tell. That pack isn’t going to settle more than maybe 1” after a lot of use. I’ve tried driving over springs with a car to flatten them out in the past, it doesn’t work. It’s spring steel and they just spring right back. Remove the pack and return it and come up with a plan b.