Oil question

[Eagle]

At one time, Castrol offered ONE type of full synthetic motor oil ("Syntec"), a synthetic/conventional blend, and conventional oil.

 

Castrol now offers at least two full-synthetic oils, "Edge" and "GTX Magnatec." The Magnatec is several dollars cheaper in the 5-quart size. What's the difference?

[Torq_Shep]

Ahh... Oil... =P

 

So, as you probably already know, the oils from a specific manufacturer are usually some refined base stock of a given weight. Generally speaking these base stocks are "equivalent" across brands (they have to meet specific API grade requirements). The additive packages are what makes them different. Oil companies spend millions of dollars running tests to tweak very specific things to change the oil performance. A very large portion of that tweaking is targeting fuel economy, reduced emissions, and stability.

 

The costs of the additives change the cost of the oil, however, the price difference between the two may be just because they spent more money in research on Edge. The best oil is the oil that has the right additive package for your specific application. However, unless you are really pushing your vehicle, any modern oil that matches the manufacturers recommended weight and type is more than sufficient (when changed regularly). 

 

Oils marketed for racing or heavy applications often have viscosity modifiers and more heavy metals to reduce engine wear. The down-side of those are that they typically do not perform as well with emissions equipment as the heavy metals poison catalysts more quickly. On diesel engines with DPFs a lower sulfated ash percentage means that you may be able to go longer between ash cleaning intervals. A fuel economy targeted oil will also have viscosity modifiers but may not contain the same level of heavy metals. Unfortunately, the only "free" information we get is what is in the MSDS for the oil. Otherwise you need to have an analysis done of both new and old and also know what the presence of certain stuff means etc etc. 

 

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/3923E29F69D029A480257B190058E0A0/%24File/CBAY-8K5DW3_0.pdf

 

I could go on for at least another 4 paragraphs but I won't. Both oils are good for your use I am sure. If it was me I would go with the Magnatec just because it is cheaper. 

 

And FYI Synthetic-Blend is like 85% regular oil. If you buy syn-blend you might as well buy standard oil instead and change it based on standard oil change intervals (3-5k miles).

[Eagle]

1 hour ago, Torq_Shep said:

And FYI Synthetic-Blend is like 85% regular oil. If you buy syn-blend you might as well buy standard oil instead and change it based on standard oil change intervals (3-5k miles).

 

GTX Magnatec isn't a blend -- it's full synthetic. I wouldn't even consider using a blend. IMHO that's even dumber than buying pre-mix anti-freeze.

[Torq_Shep]

Wasn't saying it, was just making sure anyone reading this understood that =P

 

With that being said I just checked and the last thing I put in my van was Magnatec. So I must have made this decision before =P

 

 

[Eagle]

For comparison, I just looked at Mobil oils. Mobil now offers EIGHTEEN different, full synthetic oils. "To make it easier to choose." (Their words, not mine.) I searched on three different vehicles: '88 Cherokee (287,000 miles), 2000 Cherokee Classic (125,000 miles), and 2000 Cherokee Sport (50,000 miles) All three searches returned the same seven oils. SEVEN. This is making it easier for me to choose?

 

Somebody's been smoking bad dope ...

 

[gogmorgo]

I’m still of the opinion that when it comes to oil, some is always better than none.

 

According to the marketeering wank, the Edge is very very strong and slippery, but the Magnatec is really smart and sticks onto metal bits instead of draining back down into the pan.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

some is still better than none. I’m sure all seven would do an alright job. 

[70barracuda]

I researched oils for a long time when I first got my Cherokee. After running pretty much all the big brands, I switched over to the shell rotella. There is a ton of people running the t6 synthetic in everything.  From jeeps to Subarus to muscle cars. It's one of the very last oils that actually has zddp or zinc in it and that's great for the flat tappet cams in the 4.0. Most all oils got rid of zinc because it messes with cats. You can still buy a bottle of the stuff to mix in but rotella also has a ton of detergents and it also can withstand high heat. It's also coming out in a lot of different weights now. I used to run 15w40 regular in my Cherokee but once I fixed all the oil leaks I switched to 5w40 full synthetic and I also run that in my LS Comanche. 

 

They also make it easier being it has one conventional, one blend, and one synthetic

[Limeyjeeper]

I have always run Amsoil Z-Rod in my strokers. Has zddp in it too. Works well. 10w30.

[WahooSteeler]

You can still get Castrol Edge Syntec in a 5w50 that is formulated for "classic cars" as it says on the bottle and if you research it, it's noted that it has substantial levels of zinc.   

[Eagle]

1 hour ago, WahooSteeler said:

You can still get Castrol Edge Syntec in a 5w50 that is formulated for "classic cars" as it says on the bottle and if you research it, it's noted that it has substantial levels of zinc.   

 

That's what we should be running in our older XJs and MJs. You can't find that in Walmart, though. Where can you actually buy it?

[Torq_Shep]

7 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

That's what we should be running in our older XJs and MJs. You can't find that in Walmart, though. Where can you actually buy it?

 

Arguably... Although, ZDDP is not the end all of wear reduction. https://saemobilus.sae.org/content/2004-01-2986

 

Many modern additives limit the metals content of their additives to increase catalyst life. However, their wear performance still is pretty good. There are several threads on Bob is the Oil Guy on used oil analysis of the 4.0 with different oils. I am honestly considering running 5w30 conventional in mine as I live in a warm climate. No synthetics or high detergent oils until I change out my rear main, oil pan, and valve cover seals... Leaking so fast it changes itself...

[WahooSteeler]

15 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

That's what we should be running in our older XJs and MJs. You can't find that in Walmart, though. Where can you actually buy it?

 

And I think you were the one that recommended it on a thread a few years ago. You can order from Advanced Auto, but you do have to specify the Edge "Syntec", Part #152C6F. Just "Edge" 5w50 appears to be formulated for 4cyl turbos. 

[WahooSteeler]

I'll add that since "best oil to use" is an often discussed topic, a year or two ago on here someone posted a very thorough study that was done comparing a very wide variety of oils and what their chemical makeup was. I don't know if this study came from Bobtheoilguy.com or somewhere else, but, again, it seemed to cover every measurable of each oil. Long story short, Rotella T6 had the best makeup and performance characteristics for the Renix era 4.0L. High levels of ZDDP, proper detergents, high heat capacity and high shear strength. I'm not an engineer, but it was clear T6 checked all if not most of the boxes. I've been running 15w40 spring through fall and 5w40 in the winter since it gets pretty cold here. I'm a fan of Castrol having used it in my cars for years, but T6 is less than half the price of Syntec 5w50 and by the study I referenced here I am confident T6 is damn good for my Renix 4.0L. 

[87MJJeep]

8 hours ago, WahooSteeler said:

You can still get Castrol Edge Syntec in a 5w50 that is formulated for "classic cars" as it says on the bottle and if you research it, it's noted that it has substantial levels of zinc.   

 

That's good to know about the zinc levels.  When I was in college (mid 90s), I was driving my '72 Grand Prix 400.  It had 20W-50 Castrol GTX.  On cold winter mornings, yeah, dipping into those bitter-cold 20s and 30s we here in Memphis, it turned over like it was sucking up a frozen milkshake.  Oil pressure stayed HIGH for my entire drive to school.  I switched to the then all-new Syntec 5W-50, and that engine spun over like it was summer again.   

 

5 hours ago, WahooSteeler said:

I'll add that since "best oil to use" is an often discussed topic, a year or two ago on here someone posted a very thorough study that was done comparing a very wide variety of oils and what their chemical makeup was. I don't know if this study came from Bobtheoilguy.com or somewhere else, but, again, it seemed to cover every measurable of each oil. Long story short, Rotella T6 had the best makeup and performance characteristics for the Renix era 4.0L. High levels of ZDDP, proper detergents, high heat capacity and high shear strength. I'm not an engineer, but it was clear T6 checked all if not most of the boxes. I've been running 15w40 spring through fall and 5w40 in the winter since it gets pretty cold here. I'm a fan of Castrol having used it in my cars for years, but T6 is less than half the price of Syntec 5w50 and by the study I referenced here I am confident T6 is damn good for my Renix 4.0L. 

 

Is that T6 available at Wal-Mart?  I assume so.  If you ever get bored and need to kill time, go to oil section and start comparing.  Eagle's posts about all the Mobile oils reminded me of my last trip to Wally World.  I "needed" oil meeting the FCA MS 6395(?) spec for my 2017 Cherokee in 5W-20.  There were several I could have bought for $25-$30 for 5 qts, but the 6th qt would be another  $8-$10.  Then there it was.  The 6 quart "box" (cardoboard surrounding a big thick plastic bag) of Havoline Synthetic something-or-other for I think $20!  Met that silly spec.  SOLD.     

[WahooSteeler]

1 hour ago, 87MJJeep said:

Is that T6 available at Wal-Mart?  I assume so.  If you ever get bored and need to kill time, go to oil section and start comparing.  Eagle's posts about all the Mobile oils reminded me of my last trip to Wally World.  I "needed" oil meeting the FCA MS 6395(?) spec for my 2017 Cherokee in 5W-20.  There were several I could have bought for $25-$30 for 5 qts, but the 6th qt would be another  $8-$10.  Then there it was.  The 6 quart "box" (cardoboard surrounding a big thick plastic bag) of Havoline Synthetic something-or-other for I think $20!  Met that silly spec.  SOLD.     

 

Yes, Rotella T6 is available at WalMart, usually around $23-25 for a 5qt jug. Typically a few bucks more at Advance but it is also often on sale to compete with Wally's prices. 

 

It is crazy about the number of oil specs there are available. My daily is a european car, my wife's daily is an Asian car, and then the MJ. My car calls for either 5w30 or 0w30 initially but supports 5w40 or 0w40 for higher mileage and operating environment. Euro cars have some very specific certifications they want in their oils, mainly to support long change intervals, so they strongly encourage "european formulas" with LL1 specs. I put Syntec 0w40 Euro spec in it just this past weekend from a couple cycles of LiquiMoly 5w40. My wife's car calls for 5w20 to supposedly help fuel economy. I have bumped to 5w30 since it now has 135k and the mpg's are the same. Plus it only holds 4.5qts (whereas my car, like the MJ, holds 6) so I just feel more comfortable with a little heavier oil in it at this point. 

[75sv1]

One of the Post on BITOG, was a comparison of oils by Blackstone. Bases on oil samples on specific vehicles. The Rotella T6 was tops or near the top on two vehicles. It was not listed on the Corvette. Amsoil was also at the top. It is what I've been running, the past year or so. Locally, available and sometimes on sale. I've also been using it in my MB240D. I think HESCO recommends using it in the 4.0L.

[Torq_Shep]

9 hours ago, WahooSteeler said:

 

Yes, Rotella T6 is available at WalMart, usually around $23-25 for a 5qt jug. Typically a few bucks more at Advance but it is also often on sale to compete with Wally's prices. 

 

It is crazy about the number of oil specs there are available. My daily is a european car, my wife's daily is an Asian car, and then the MJ. My car calls for either 5w30 or 0w30 initially but supports 5w40 or 0w40 for higher mileage and operating environment. Euro cars have some very specific certifications they want in their oils, mainly to support long change intervals, so they strongly encourage "european formulas" with LL1 specs. I put Syntec 0w40 Euro spec in it just this past weekend from a couple cycles of LiquiMoly 5w40. My wife's car calls for 5w20 to supposedly help fuel economy. I have bumped to 5w30 since it now has 135k and the mpg's are the same. Plus it only holds 4.5qts (whereas my car, like the MJ, holds 6) so I just feel more comfortable with a little heavier oil in it at this point. 

 

What J35 car does your wife drive =P 

 

I have been thinking about going to 5w30 in my Odyssey for a bit. Last Odyssey went out at 275k with a ring failure. 

[WahooSteeler]

2 hours ago, Torq_Shep said:

 

What J35 car does your wife drive =P 

 

I have been thinking about going to 5w30 in my Odyssey for a bit. Last Odyssey went out at 275k with a ring failure. 

 

'11 Acura MDX

[FrankTheDog]

In my 98 XJ I ran mostly white bottle and green bottle castrol, 10/40 summer and 10/30 winter. Oil change intervals were anywhere between 5-15,000 miles. Ran the big ford style filter in either wix or fram. 

I got the jeep with 209k on it and it has 453k on it now. Never been apart, never used more than a quart in 5,000 miles, mostly leaking. I would still be driving it if it wasn’t totally rotted out. 

I probably will throw the engine in a wrangler just to see how many more miles I can put on it. It’s on its third clutch in need of its fourth. Clutch was put in at 214k. I hate to toss that motor just because it has been so faithful.